Dragon Shaper Nerf Discussion
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Dragon Shaper Nerf Discussion
So...someone correct me if I'm wrong here. Dragon shape is now easier to get...but..
Damage: Remains the same - mostly subpar physical damage.
DR: What DR?
AC: Drastically lowered to probably around mid 50s without improved expertise.
AB: Can now actually hit things if there is a relatively significant increase
In addition, dragon shape is still 3 use/rest, has a massive model size that makes it incredibly vulnerable to gonnes and mages who just hide behind fixtures, can only use potions while shifted, and requires an epic feat. So my question to the community is: why bother taking it? By stats wise, going 30 in druid and getting the monolith elemental forms are much better. You save an epic feat, you're less likely to get stuck, your form is unlimited.
Damage: Remains the same - mostly subpar physical damage.
DR: What DR?
AC: Drastically lowered to probably around mid 50s without improved expertise.
AB: Can now actually hit things if there is a relatively significant increase
In addition, dragon shape is still 3 use/rest, has a massive model size that makes it incredibly vulnerable to gonnes and mages who just hide behind fixtures, can only use potions while shifted, and requires an epic feat. So my question to the community is: why bother taking it? By stats wise, going 30 in druid and getting the monolith elemental forms are much better. You save an epic feat, you're less likely to get stuck, your form is unlimited.
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Re: Dragon Shaper Nerf Discussion
I wouldn't take it on anything. I expect dragon-shape, and druid as a class, to be totally culled from the 'good builds' list in a very short time.
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Re: Dragon Shaper Nerf Discussion
Was druid EVER in any good builds list?
Re: Dragon Shaper Nerf Discussion
It seems like it is now a great situational choice without being a crazy cheesy option that encourages two classes with incredibly different perspectives and outlooks to be forced into a character. The 25WIS requirement means Druids will have an easier time getting the feat. You could do something like a 23 Druid/4 Fighter/3 Rogue and have a pretty solid dragonshape. 60+ AC is fine.
RP only starts at 30 if you're a coward.
Re: Dragon Shaper Nerf Discussion
You'll probably have to play a druid that can dragon shape, rather than a dragonshaper, and utlise the whole kit.
The problem with druids elemental shapes (Despite imo them being overtuned) is that you're KD bait once you're out of them.
The problem with druids elemental shapes (Despite imo them being overtuned) is that you're KD bait once you're out of them.
Thankfully this team is no longer being used.
Sockss#5567 for nwn mechanics questions.
Sockss#5567 for nwn mechanics questions.
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Re: Dragon Shaper Nerf Discussion
I don't have the archive but I think druid monk cot d.shape was on there.Cortex wrote:Was druid EVER in any good builds list?
Either way, it's unanimous. Do not currently see a reason to play the class unless you really like Druid RP and don't mind the objectively awful mechanics behind it.
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Re: Dragon Shaper Nerf Discussion
Freeing druids from having to multiclass as monks is pretty great. Though without monk dragonshape was never really great. Can see why the DR was removed, but don't really see the need for nerfs beyond this (and removing monk synergy). I hope the new dragonshape is going to be useful.
Re: Dragon Shaper Nerf Discussion
A change was needed. DS in its vanilla incarnation was broken. I just wish this incarnation didn't seem so woefully unimpressive mechanically. It's now a must have for druids who dip for discipline, though; but for a pure druid it's a wasted feat, as the elemental shapes are superior.
Note that I play a pure druid and have always been bothered by the monk/druid combo.
Note that I play a pure druid and have always been bothered by the monk/druid combo.
Last edited by Wytchee on Tue Oct 24, 2017 9:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Current character: Abigail Duskwood
Re: Dragon Shaper Nerf Discussion
Last edited by Jack Oat on Tue Oct 24, 2017 9:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Dragon Shaper Nerf Discussion
I wouldn't mind making the dragonshape infinicast or more casts per day to fix the awkwardly biggun problem. Isn't the dragonshape still quite strong if your character is not going the full distance Druid30 to get Monolithic? Future development wise, if druid spells or the spell list gets upgraded, there may be potential in playing caster druids (you go WIS all the way anyway) with Bard or Monk levels (Tumble, UMD, Discipline for unshifted; Evasion) and switching between casting and Dragonshape situationally.
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Re: Dragon Shaper Nerf Discussion
It's *only* viable for disc dip druids, and for them it's a straight up buff. It's a wasted feat on a pure druid, unless you're just really into dragons, I guess.Opustus wrote:I wouldn't mind making the dragonshape infinicast or more casts per day to fix the awkwardly biggun problem. Isn't the dragonshape still quite strong if your character is not going the full distance Druid30 to get Monolithic? Future development wise, if druid spells or the spell list gets upgraded, there may be potential in playing caster druids with Bard or Monk levels (Tumble, UMD, Discipline for unshifted; Evasion) and switching between casting and Dragonshape situationally.
Current character: Abigail Duskwood
Re: Dragon Shaper Nerf Discussion
Don't you know that discussing why mechanical changes on the forums in a non-positive light gets everyone upset in the bum-bum? I guess you take it for RP reasons, but who knows.Miskol wrote: why bother taking it?
I've never played a D-Shaper, but I can't help but wonder what class will be ruined next for the sake of "balance." How many class changes have we had in the past year, anyway?
Owlbears are the only thing keeping Arelith from the D&D experience.
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Re: Dragon Shaper Nerf Discussion
I believe weapon master will come next, perhaps linking their crit passives to the active active ki-strike skill.
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Re: Dragon Shaper Nerf Discussion
were ruining rogues next
the overpowered reign of rogues will soon come to an end.
WM is fine, and we won't touch it, probably ever.
the overpowered reign of rogues will soon come to an end.
WM is fine, and we won't touch it, probably ever.
Re: Dragon Shaper Nerf Discussion
Most likely after that, wizards will no longer learn spells from scrolls and sorcerers will have one less spell known per level.
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Re: Dragon Shaper Nerf Discussion
A good nerf to rogues would be to move thieves cant to 20, pretty much fixing the OPness of the class and giving deep rogue a real attractive option
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Re: Dragon Shaper Nerf Discussion
The fact is in the melee realm, mid 50s AC will have you easily melted. The fact that you only do ~40 physical damage a hit means it can be easily reduced. Having better AB is great and all, but low damage remains low and undiverse, and no DR as well as significantly reduced AC means you now wont get the chance to even dish out that many hits.Wytchee wrote:A change was needed. DS in its vanilla incarnation was broken. I just wish this incarnation didn't seem so woefully unimpressive mechanically. It's now a must have for druids who dip for discipline, though; but for a pure druid it's a wasted feat, as the elemental shapes are superior.
Note that I play a pure druid and have always been bothered by the monk/druid combo.
Re: Dragon Shaper Nerf Discussion
My gosh this thread. e_e
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3KquFZYi6L0
Guys, if it's underpowered, it will be tweaked. The devs aren't out to punish you.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3KquFZYi6L0
Guys, if it's underpowered, it will be tweaked. The devs aren't out to punish you.
Current character: Abigail Duskwood
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Re: Dragon Shaper Nerf Discussion
Local man discovered to be buoyant in forums. Salt content to blame.
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Described experience to reporters as "The most pleasant, relaxing, and enjoyable reading experience of my life".
Re: Dragon Shaper Nerf Discussion
MALI ECONOMY IN TOILET
Mali's economy, based primarily on the salt trade, has plummeted as companies and corporations shift to this thread for new, self-replenishing source of salt!
Mali's economy, based primarily on the salt trade, has plummeted as companies and corporations shift to this thread for new, self-replenishing source of salt!
"You shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free."
Garrbear wrote:quite bluntly we can't balance the server around people who don't play well
Irongron wrote:My main takeaway from this is that Jack is apparently personable
Re: Dragon Shaper Nerf Discussion
Being able to trasform into an actual dragon is a huge deal, irrespective of its mechanical power. I am very pleased that this change has finally happened, though personally wasn't sold on the lower WIS cost. I would prefer to see less dragons, or none at all.
Re: Dragon Shaper Nerf Discussion
But Irongron, anyone can do that with shapechange the spell, or buy a scroll.Irongron wrote:Being able to trasform into an actual dragon is a huge deal, irrespective of its mechanical power. I am very pleased that this change has finally happened, though personally wasn't sold on the lower WIS cost. I would prefer to see less dragons, or none at all.
Re: Dragon Shaper Nerf Discussion
Although now, of course, you can get EDK, HB and GR on top of dragon shape!
Thankfully this team is no longer being used.
Sockss#5567 for nwn mechanics questions.
Sockss#5567 for nwn mechanics questions.
Re: Dragon Shaper Nerf Discussion
irongron why won't you let me 5% a dragon and do cool things with that
Re: Dragon Shaper Nerf Discussion
Last edited by Hunter548 on Tue Oct 24, 2017 10:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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