Horses

[Dreams]

I've got a mixture of feedback here but the main point is this:

I took the 8 ranks on my latest character when it was announced that horses would be available. After the last few weeks of dealing with bugs and such in the horses, 5 days ago I finally am able to use them with my character. Today we face a change (maybe it is more bugs?) that makes those 8 ranks utterly worthless due to the horse throwing you every round, no speed bonus on the horse, and the loss of AC whilst riding (and after riding, which stacks every time you try to mount, doesn't go away on rest).

Horses are cool. I can see what you're trying to do with this system. I don't think it's been implemented in a way that makes sense. I'm annoyed that it couldn't have just been explained to us from the beginning, because if I had known that taking 8 ranks in ride wouldn't let me ride horses, I wouldn't have bothered. I can't tell how long this change has been going, but if you could put a note explaining it in the Announcements, that would be cool.

All in all, this is another one of those situations where I regret trying something new because it has misinformed me when it was released and completely changed shortly afterward.

[BegoneThoth]

I've got a mixture of feedback here but the main point is this:

I took the 8 ranks on my latest character when it was announced that horses would be available. After the last few weeks of dealing with bugs and such in the horses, 5 days ago I finally am able to use them with my character. Today we face a change (maybe it is more bugs?) that makes those 8 ranks utterly worthless due to the horse throwing you every round, no speed bonus on the horse, and the loss of AC whilst riding (and after riding, which stacks every time you try to mount, doesn't go away on rest).

Horses are cool. I can see what you're trying to do with this system. I don't think it's been implemented in a way that makes sense. I'm annoyed that it couldn't have just been explained to us from the beginning, because if I had known that taking 8 ranks in ride wouldn't let me ride horses, I wouldn't have bothered. I can't tell how long this change has been going, but if you could put a note explaining it in the Announcements, that would be cool.

All in all, this is another one of those situations where I regret trying something new because it has misinformed me when it was released and completely changed shortly afterward.

I keep falling off and speed is inconsistent. Think it's a bug not a new change.

As for skill points, it's just another reason to save all skill points till 30, that way you can just un-do any skills if they change them.

[Dreams]

Lesson learned.

[Traitor]

pls fix if bug

pls tell me bad joke if not bug

[Kirito]

First up I should apologise for not getting an announcement put up for this, the original changes were more in the background however I had more time available so accomplished more of the overall scope. Just neglected to get an announcement sent out, so sorry =]

Secondly, it has been stated many times since the introduction of ride that horses were not in any sence completed, so changes should have been expected.

Thirdly, the reason none of this was hinted about when horses were introduced to the wider server population is quite simply, there hadn't been a plan at that point.

So what has happened:
Movement speed: this is part 1 of 2. (I have no control of part 2 though).
horse speed is dependant on
[*]how well you can ride (Base skill skill points)
[*]what you are equipped with (there are things like spurs that can be add later)
[*]having the horse award (see later)
[*]the type of horse you ride (part 2) some horses are bred for speed, some for burden, some for battle. This will be reflected at some point, but for now is out of my control. Currently all horses have the default speed of 110% normal character speed before ride bonus.

A.C. changes
You no longer gain tumble A.C. whilst mounted. (Because whilst you can dodge out the way, your horse cannot). This can be offset by your ranks in ride on a 1 for 1 basis. So 30 ranks in tumble and 8 ranks in ride will get you -5AC.

Getting thrown off your horse.
There is a chance of getting thrown off, the better you are at controlling horses or the better you are at staying on a horse alters this chance.


Bugs:
Obviously not cancelling the A.C. loss on dismount is a bug (apparently 2 letters makes a big differences)

Movement speed: If you are a monk or hasted then you will likely be able to run faster than a horse, a barbarian I think should equal horse default speed at the moment. If you can out run a horse and you have no movement bonuses yourself then there is a bug. (I've yet to get a chance to come on the server to confirm).

Thrown rider:
If you are being thrown 1 round after mounting every time, then you've fallen into the trap for those that have less than the required skill for ride. It should be no where near that frequent/soon after most of the time. (Or you could have been very unlucky)

[Dreams]

[flower]

Hard or soft sklil in riding?

[All The Sinners Saints]

A shame that one of the cooler new changes has the potential of being severly dampened by this. While I understand that 8 ride may not be enough to ride a mount flawlessly in combat, I do think it should be more then enough to ride down a straight road without being thrown off. Especially when riding a mount you summon with a class ability, and have a special bond (empathic link) with. That said I really like tumble not applying and do think getting thrown off a horse should be possible.

[Kirito]

[quote="Dreams"][/quote]

Because you have to start somewhere when you learn

[Irongron]

Details now posted on the update thread.

[flower]

So you gain AC for ride (instead of tumble) and if you got mounted combat it adds AC on top of that?

Is there some minimum of riding to not be throwen down by horse? Because even if it is 5% it would keep to happen a lot on riding.

[Irongron]

So you gain AC for ride (instead of tumble) and if you got mounted combat it adds AC on top of that?

Yes, but due to the situational limitations, such us requiring open areas and of course the availability of horses themselves this ability, while useful, will not be to everyone's tastes. Furthermore the AC bonus of mounted combat may eventually be tied to the quality of the barding being used.

Is there some minimum of riding to not be throwen down by horse? Because even if it is 5% it would keep to happen a lot on riding.

I believe there is a timer on this, so it shouldn't happen too often.

[flower]

I'd ask you to consider to remove falling off at some moderate ammount of it, and perhaps even on horses. Like war horse will provide more calm thing to fight from than some steppe racer.

I hate you. First time i hit 30rd and de leveled to pick up riding (not even leveled it back) and now i must de level even more to change stuff for this cool thing

[BegoneThoth]

Is there a max ranks of ride needed to not fall off?

I want it as a cool toy, and just don't like taking five instances of 20 damage simply going from the arcane tower to Cordor with 10 ranks.

[Punished Hans]

With these changes riding a horse seems to be superior to walking in every way. Why would any character reliant on AB not pick up this relatively cheap +10 bonus (Not to mention the additional movement speed and potentially higher ac if the bonus isn't tied to hard skill points like with tumble)?

I'd say I'd like to see a heavy vulnerability added to piercing damage (think of pikemen countering horses), but that would hardly balance this.

Do not consider removing the chance to be thrown off. So far, thats the biggest downside I can see to horse riding (If its actually a knockdown, as opposed to simply dismounting into a standing position). I'd suggest for the chance to be only triggered upon being hit, however, or for there to be a slightly higher chance if you are hit.

Disclaimer: Now, while realize that horse riding is going to be situational, it is going to utterly dominate in those situations; More than is fun or realistic.

[BegoneThoth]

With these changes riding a horse seems to be superior to walking in every way. Why would any character reliant on AB not pick up this relatively cheap +10 bonus (Not to mention the additional movement speed and potentially higher ac if the bonus isn't tied to hard skill points like with tumble)?

What? Where do you get +10 ab? Just by being on a horse?

[All The Sinners Saints]

So you gain AC for ride (instead of tumble) and if you got mounted combat it adds AC on top of that?

Yes, but due to the situational limitations, such us requiring open areas and of course the availability of horses themselves this ability, while useful, will not be to everyone's tastes. Furthermore the AC bonus of mounted combat may eventually be tied to the quality of the barding being used.

Does this mean that the mounted combat feat is not disabled? And that one essentially gets 2 ac for every 5 ranks in ride you take? (More really, as I understand mounted combat takes all modifiers from feats and gear into account too)

[BegoneThoth]

Oh here it is;

-A.C. changes
You no longer gain tumble A.C. whilst mounted. (Because whilst you can dodge out the way, your horse cannot). This can be offset by your ranks in ride on a 1 for 1 basis. So 30 ranks in tumble and 8 ranks in ride will get you -5AC.
With the mounted combat feat you ALSO gain 1AC per 5 ride ranks. (Mounted Combat feat now enabled - see below)

-AB Changes
If you have the mounted combat feat you gain +1 AB per 8 ride skill (incl Dex and equipment) to melee weapons when mounted. This is capped at +10 for 80 points.

If you have the mounted archery feat you gain +5 AB to ranged weapons when mounted

Guess that's pretty much mandatory for all new characters going forward.

[Cortex]

im pretty sure this will be nerfed significantly soon

[BegoneThoth]

Woosh, Paladins with their free anywhere mount just shot up to S-tier. Already closing in on the highest AB now they just get more AC and more AB.

[All The Sinners Saints]

This is utterly insane. This completely invalidates old builds, makes balancing outdoor areas for mounted and unmounted combattants impossible, and will require building for ride going forward on essentially all meele builds to avoid being murdered in pvp. 80 ranks in ride give a minimun of 6 ac from ride skill itself, 14 ac from mounted combat, and +10 ab.

[Irongron]

Woosh, Paladins with their free anywhere mount just shot up to S-tier. Already closing in on the highest AB now they just get more AC and more AB.

Summon Mount is disabled on Arelith.

Also, as I said in the update post some of these combat bonuses will be affected by horse equipment and breed. Gaining those full bonuses will not always be guaranteed as the horses themselves will be limited.

[BegoneThoth]

This is utterly insane. This completely invalidates old builds, makes balancing outdoor areas for mounted and unmounted combattants impossible, and will require building for ride going forward on essentially all meele builds to avoid being murdered in pvp. 80 ranks in ride give a minimun of 6 ac from ride skill itself, 14 ac from mounted combat, and +10 ab.

That's pretty much exactly how I feel. On my Wizard I'm going to dump ride at 30, now. Luckily I have a free pre-epic feat so I can snag mounted combat and enjoy bonus dodge ac while mounted.

It's required now. Moreso then discipline.

Woosh, Paladins with their free anywhere mount just shot up to S-tier. Already closing in on the highest AB now they just get more AC and more AB.

Summon Mount is disabled on Arelith.

Well;

- Paladins with the Horse Reward gain access to Summon Mount at level 1 and may use the feat infinitely.

- Summon Mount is disabled (Those people who previously spent a reward on Horse Riding retain the feat)

Also, as I said in the update post some of these combat bonuses will be affected by horse equipment and breed. Gaining those full bonuses will not always be guaranteed as the horses themselves will be limited.

Well, horse hording and hiding is about to be a thing. Moreso if you have some pvp in mind. If you're going to cause some trouble at the arcane tower, head over there 30 minutes early and move their horses so they can't have them during the fight.

[All The Sinners Saints]

At least earlier today, and for several days prior Summon Mount was working just fine, and that was for a non horse award character.

Not that removing it in anyway helps avert the trainwreck of an update this is. Without risking hyperbole, I can say with complete confidence, that these changes fundamentally alter the game for most classes, and unbalance it on a deep level.

[All The Sinners Saints]

Also, as I said in the update post some of these combat bonuses will be affected by horse equipment and breed. Gaining those full bonuses will not always be guaranteed as the horses themselves will be limited.

Well, horse hording and hiding is about to be a thing. Moreso if you have some pvp in mind. If you're going to cause some trouble at the arcane tower, head over there 30 minutes early and move their horses so they can't have them during the fight.

Not only that, but it ensures that a single pc with a horse can utterly decimate entire groups if they cannot reliably count on having access to a horse to counter the considerable move speed, and incredible ab/ac advantage. Making horses rarer and not reliably accessible only makes things worse, not better.