WoF

[Tarkus the dog]

As somebody who plays a busted character whose half of PvP deaths are because of the EDK, I'm going to drop in to say the following:

I am unsure about the Mummy dust, but EDK is one of the stronger abilities out there. If you manage to whoop it out and you have the required feats and caster levels, it's a huge, huge threat on the field. To remove it you need to either be very lucky with your first WoF scroll, otherwise you need to use both a mords and a WoF scroll which roughly takes around 12 seconds ( and even then the 22 SR is enough to pass the save). During this 12-18 second period the EDK can entirely murder most of the characters. Adding a DC to the un-summoning part of the WoF would make EDK completely broken.

[-XXX-]

You could give it a DC or give the Summons a SR set to values that would make them getting dispelled 70% of the time (?) by a >>>scrolled<<< WoF. You know... add some variance into it. Sure, have clerics be able to abolish summons without any issues if that's what their gimmick is supposed to be. Cast spells can at least be counterspelled when it comes to that, but scrolls cannot be stopped.

As for the EDK, when summonned it always does two things regardless of whether you use the player tool or not: 1) it activates it's fear aura and 2) it casts Mord - that's two rounds of relative inactivity before it starts smashing things, giving you the time to either murder the summoner, flee or go for a counterplay.

[Tarkus the dog]

As for the EDK, when summonned it always does two things regardless of whether you use the player tool or not: 1) it activates it's fear aura and 2) it casts Mord - that's two rounds of relative inactivity before it starts smashing things, giving you the time to either murder the summoner, flee or go for a counterplay.

Exactly, and it is also perma-hasted. Another reason why the WoF should stay as it is.

[Nitro]

It does feel a bit strange that animated undead, who are not summoned creatures, are banished though.

[Quoth]

it's unsummoning, not banishment. also returns them back to their home plane and the dead being well dead their home plane would be the afterlife.

[-XXX-]

And if you add a save to the summon removal, suddenly those spells are 100% reliable and there's no counterplay against them for anyone not a cleric or a wizard. One of the options just happens to benefit you and your character.

First off, timestop scroll + axe to the face is a counterplay to anything. You also can theoretically kill the dragon (i've done this, it's doable). And finally, if you insist on looking at this on a personal level I resent the notion that my character should be nerfed (vamps used to be unaffected by WoF before) while literally everyone is given a 100% reliable counterplay at their disposal at the same time - especially since this appears to be an unintentional by-product of the change from undead henchmen towards making them summons. You can see how that can be mildly irritating, don't you?

it's unsummoning, not banishment. also returns them back to their home plane and the dead being well dead their home plane would be the afterlife.

It says "returns", not "unsummon" or "banish". Also they are not "dead" but "undead". Once we got that terminology straight, it appears to me that they should stay just where they are, maybe blinded by the spell (which would be might annoying as well TBH).

[Quoth]

do you use any corpses to animate or create your undead? No then you're summoning them not creating or animating them and they should be dismissed. they used to be such when undead were henchmen rather than summons but that's no longer the case(and nor should it be the case again). Stop whining about your summons having counter play. You're a mage, use something else if your summons are dismissed. You've got plenty of spells to choose from and some of the best spells the game has to offer.

[-XXX-]

- EDK is an epic feat as much as Mummy Dust is. Using both I can say that EDK is the more powerful of the two.

- EDK has SR as a means to protect it from scrolled WoF, Mummy Dust summons don't.

- There is another thread in this very section of the forums proving how necromancy summons are underpowered and in need of a buff.

- BG undead summons have SR, some NPC summons have SR. Clearly there is no precedent stating that undead can't have SR on Arelith.


Solution? Give Vamps and Mummies SR as well! Tie this to necro foci if you must.

Stop whining

I resent your personal attacks. You have yet to present a valid argument.

[Nitro]

do you use any corpses to animate or create your undead? No then you're summoning them not creating or animating them and they should be dismissed.

That's more of a mechanical constraint than anything. I for one would love for corpses, be they from PC's or NPC's to be used in any of the undead animation spells. Except the palemasters "Summon Undead" since that's the one spell that it does make sense for the undead to be banishable on.

Stop whining about your summons having counter play.

No need to get rude just because some people have a different opinion than you do.

[Quoth]

Says the one that threw the first personal attack about how i interact with other players by squashing lowbies apparently.


No I don't care about clerics getting nerfed if there is cause, however there isn't cause for it. You want your summons to have less counter play, WoF unsummoning vamps and mummies applies to clerics just as much as it applies to mages and yet I'm here arguing the spell doesn't need nerfing which was what you originally wanted.

@Nitro

He threw the first stone but yes I shouldn't of been rude and gone to their level.

[Cortex]

WoF won't change on the grounds of two people arguing about it regardless. I didn't even read it past the first page anyway.

[Nitro]

WoF won't change on the grounds of two people arguing about it regardless. I didn't even read it past the first page anyway.

B-but clearly you did read past the first page if you read enough to directly respond to the post above you.

Cortex confirmed for illuminati.

[yellowcateyes]

Any character with 1 rank in UMD can counter EDK and Mummy Dust

I wish any character could use scrolls with just 1 rank of UMD. I could put those skill points in Ride!

[-XXX-]

He threw the first stone but yes I shouldn't of been rude and gone to their level.

There is a palpable difference between me dismissing your anecdotal evidence being amusingly presented as a valid argument and throwing personal attacks.

I'm sorry that you took offense, but that's solely your problem, not mine.

Any character with 1 rank in UMD can counter EDK and Mummy Dust

I wish any character could use scrolls with just 1 rank of UMD. I could put those skill points in Ride!

OK, make it 5 then! Sometimes I forget that not every character can be pwetty

[Ecstatic]

Locking.

If you guys can't have a discussion without letting it devolve into personal bickering, you can't have a discussion at all.