Reworking the RPR system

[Baron Saturday]

So hoshi had an idea that I really really liked and I thought it deserved its own thread!

Personally I think that RPR might work better in increments of 1. So if a DM sees your roleplay sort of on track for a higher RPR, they could give you +1 (or more). That way the player would have some feedback that what they were doing was recognized. That would also give a bit more RPR/adventure XP a tick.

Here's how I see this working: Up to RPR 20, one DM +1 = +1 RPR. After 20, you need a +1 from two different DMs to get +1 RPR. After 30, three DMs. -1 could function similarly, or just a flat -1 = -1. This allows for a more dynamic approach to RPR that doesn't require a DM committee while still making it harder to increase your RPR as it gets higher, reflecting the increased expectations.

I like this for a lot of reasons. It takes the pressure off of DMs. As it stands, with only four steps between 40 RPR and 0, a RPR change in either direction is kind of a Big Deal. If RPR was changed in increments of 1, a +1 or -1 would be acknowledged without being a life changing event. (Seriously, the first time my RPR changed I did a little jig around my apartment.)

This would go a long way towards making RPR the dynamic thing that the wiki claims it is, rather than a stagnant and frustratingly opaque system.

It also allows RPR to be decreased as a slap on the wrist rather than a setback that may take years to recover from.

Okay! So. Thoughts?

[DarkDreamer]

I honestly love this idea, and it also takes away from the fact it could take years to get DMs to notice you at all.

[Xanos950]

So instead of being in the right spot at the right time while the right dm watches you do the right rp to get an RPR boost.

You would now need to be in the right spot at any time while any dm perma-observes you hopefully doing the right rp to get a small RPR boost, all the time.

Not sure this is the right path.

[DarkDreamer]

Honestly...it would be a lot better then it currently is....where you have more chances of being struck by lightening twice or winning the lottery.

[Liareth]

If RPR is a system that is based on luck, as you believe, then this suggestion means that you'd prefer to have to win the lottery ten times in a row rather than win the lottery once for the same prize. I feel it would increase pressure on the DM team rather than relieve it as well; the expectation at the end of every encounter with a DM would include an RPR change.

[DarkDreamer]

If RPR is a system that is based on luck, as you believe, then this suggestion means that you'd prefer to have to win the lottery ten times in a row rather than win the lottery once for the same prize. I feel it would increase pressure on the DM team rather than relieve it as well; the expectation at the end of every encounter with a DM would include an RPR change.

I can see your point in this personally....and really it feels like even posting this is shooting myself in the throat of ever getting a RPR for anything I write here. But honestly in over the year I have been here, I know a lot of players, and not one has ever reached 30 - 40 RPR, so it does seem the impossible at all.

[Liareth]

If RPR is a system that is based on luck, as you believe, then this suggestion means that you'd prefer to have to win the lottery ten times in a row rather than win the lottery once for the same prize. I feel it would increase pressure on the DM team rather than relieve it as well; the expectation at the end of every encounter with a DM would include an RPR change.

I can see your point in this personally....and really it feels like even posting this is shooting myself in the throat of ever getting a RPR for anything I write here. But honestly in over the year I have been here, I know a lot of players, and not one has ever reached 30 - 40 RPR, so it does seem the impossible at all.

I just ran a query and here are the player counts for each RPR. Note that 10 is the default so it's expected that the number of 10s is much higher than any other group.

10: 18184
20: 1721
30: 254
40: 53

If we ignore 10s (which we should; the criteria for 10->20 is "are they roleplaying" and "are they not griefing", a category which most active players will fall into once a DM notices them), then 1 in 8 players will have 30 RPR. and 1 in 40 players will have 40 RPR. Unfortunately we don't have statistics on active players (as opposed to all players over all time) - it's possible that the ratio is lower in recent times, though we have no evidence which suggests that, beyond some anecdotal experiences.

[Baron Saturday]

If RPR is a system that is based on luck, as you believe, then this suggestion means that you'd prefer to have to win the lottery ten times in a row rather than win the lottery once for the same prize. I feel it would increase pressure on the DM team rather than relieve it as well; the expectation at the end of every encounter with a DM would include an RPR change.

I don't believe that the RPR system is based on luck, or DM favoritism, or how many DM events you participate in. Nor is this idea born of a dissatisfaction with my own RPR, or with the DM team. I apologize if that is how this came across.

I tried to base this idea on the RPB wiki page, specifically the part that says "The Role Play Bonus is meant to be dynamic, and will go up and down throughout time on server as players are observed in different circumstances, according with the level of roleplay that they tend to display, or are currently displaying." Assuming that's an accurate statement of the intent of the RPR system, I see a fairly large disconnect between intent and execution. Admittedly I have only a limited perspective, but from what I've seen on the forums over the past few years, there seems to be a general feeling that RPR changes are very few and far between, not dynamic at all. This in turn gives rise to some of the frustrations that were voiced in the thread linked in the OP, where players feel in the dark about how their RP is regarded and don't know if they're doing something wrong or if they actually have an RPR increase right around the corner.

I know that the usual advice given is to stop worrying about your RPR and just enjoy the roleplay, and if that is the feeling of the team, then I'd have no objection to this thread being locked/deleted. I only started it because I see frustration with the RPR system crop up on the forums a few times a year and thought I saw an elegant solution.

[WanderingPoet]

I've always wondered why the RPR system was DM controlled and not player controlled. That is - a very small handle of DMs control whether or not someone gets access to... Fey race and a little bit of bonus exp (at current). Not every person (Player or DM or admin) will consider "Shows exceptional aptitude to bring out the good RPer in those around them, is part of the living, breathing world and environment of Arelith." in the same way. Some consider that to mean you need to be a leader in order to give out things for the other RPers, some consider that helping /others/ to be leaders to bring out the good RPer in others - both as loose examples.

The thing is that DMs can't possibly see every interaction that is going on and see the sum of the RP of a player to really judge that unless the player is working with DMs on a constant basis (attending or requesting DM events), and even then the DMs have multiple players to look at and an event to run which is distracting (I've DMed on another server so I know something of what it is like!). This of course would lead to concerns (which I've seen voiced on the forum) about DM favouring their friends - players whom they like to play with and feel are good Rpers and deserve an RPR boost - if you like playing with someone you're more likely to notice them being awesome than some unknown. Note that I'm not blaming the DMs in this, it is a difficult situation to be in.

So a proposal - why not put it in the hands of the player? 1 vote/RL month for a character that you found to have RP that you enjoy (regardless of what their RPR actually is). After the player accumulates enough votes they 'level up' to the next tier. Likewise you could use that 1 vote/RL month for a character you found to have RP you found destructive or disruptive.

With 1 vote/RL month, the player would be forced to consider exactly what they're voting for. If they want to abuse the system and get the RPR up of a friend, it'll take a while or that person has a lot of people that enjoy RPing with them. If people want to use the system to bring down the RPR of another player then people will need to agree with them or can always offset the loss with their own gain. Of course, every vote would be counted equal (though perhaps DMs can count a little more) - and no one will be able to see who voted for them or how close they are to 'level up', or the RPR of another. Would suggest putting in a decay system for the higher tiers - like 40 RPR requires 2 votes/month to maintain, 30RPR requires 1 vote/month.

Can it be used for a popularity contest? Of course, but then people are throwing their votes at someone that they want to say they like, and not to someone else. If someone has managed to garner that much support IC or OOC to have many people toss them their vote, regardless of RP skill level then I would think they are a benefit to the server!

[Cortex]

I feel the explanations of how RPB is evaluated and its tiers are sort of dated regardless. They haven't changed ever since they were first added. Back in the day it took you weeks/months to get 10 or 20 RPR, and a small slip up to lose it all.

[Ramza]

Well, its still like that Cortex. Haven't really seen it change in any way to be better than it was in the past. Then again I don't flock to Dm heavy factions or towns so.. *Shrug*

[Seekeepeek]

Keep in mind this is just my humble opinion and is only the voice of one person:
RPR is basically equal gaming style. if you like your current gaming style then it's not worth going for a higher RPR. The higher RPR you have, the more of your self you give to others. if you play in the same track and don't change pace, your RPR is likely to remain as it is. if you desire a higher RPR and just play at the same routine, it ain't happening. so ask your self if you injoy playing Arelith as you do now, if you do.. then the RPR you have is properly the right one for you. RPR don't have anything to do with how flawless emotions you can make or how good you master english, if none desire to roleplay with you. A high RPR is a fire starter, who can control the flames so none get burned while igniting the passion in others, who then spread the fire.

Just made this list for the giggles. if you have better suggestions feel free to make your own.

0 Bonus: Pac man (eating all the dots)
10 Bonus: Donkey Kong (Learning what latters to claim in arelith)
20 Bonus: Mario Burazāzu (Mario bros!) <-- i allways been here, me bros!
30 Bonus: Jack Sparrow (even the bad guys change attitude when his name is spoken, and takes most things with a smile)
40 Bonus : Gromit from gromit and wallace (he allways goes along with his master's plan, even when things are bad for him)

[Tetra]

nm

[TimeAdept]

If you are that good, at that point you should just be a DM. The separation between player and DM should stay neat and clean.

[Seven Sons of Sin]

I don't think RPR needs much change. I think people should be more ready to kudos people in the public forum, that doesn't involve being guilt-tripped into it, or a kind of group hug. Kudos threads (most of the time) are given post-major event, or at the end of a character's lifecycle. We need more in-between to give kudos to players/characters that can fall in the gap between these kinds of timelines.

Also, Tetra, I hope you don't feel like you need to self-censor! The day we have that in the community forums, will be a sad day.

[DM Always This Late]

A few thoughts,

1. We do watch things a lot (Spooky I know) Sometimes I just log in to watch stories and characters interactions and I think we have pretty good coverage and involvement DM's and PCs even though it's not often obvious we are paying attention to what is unfolding.

2. the 10-20 bump as mentioned is often easier to achieve and that can be granted by a single DM. Where as 30-40 requires a discussion amongst other DMs before it occurs. I think each DM has their own sort of personal guidelines for suggesting an RPR raise. For example, I really like to see players that make an effort to pull other people into plots and RP. (especially people in leadership in settlements) so to see that, amongst other qualities might prompt me to suggest the raise to the team.

3. Someone else mentioned the kudo's thread, and that can be a useful tool for a DM to take note of characters to watch. That's true.

4. I think the first system mentioned does have some merits but in my opinion promotes single encounter RPR boosting rather then taking a look at the larger picture. With the way the RPR system is setup right now we discuss raises amongst each other when they are brought up and each DM can input what they know. That lets us form a more complete picture of a players overall RP style rather then judging solely on single encounters. And I think the bigger picture is what the 30's and 40's are really good for.

5. I like the RPR system because it does reward players that take the extra steps to be immersive about RP. It's a reward that's granted solely on RP and cannot be gained through PVE, or grinding. And I think that's important. I think our delivery of the RPR boosts may not always be consistent, but that is perhaps a merit of the system.

For example, a character that achieves 30-40 RPR character is likely a one that I could never watch directly but still know about by proxy because they are often involved with other characters, and drawing them into interactions or doing something dramatic that is fueling RP.

6. As far as RPR rewards for gifts, I think this is not often a challenge due to the rarity of rewards. But say for example, you got a greater reward and wanted to play X race but only had a 20 RPR and that race requires a 30. I think that as DM's we could be open to examining the history of your past characters, and your plan for your new character, and work with you to use that greater reward for the gift you want while also ensuring we maintain the standards set before.

[Wytchee]

I feel the need to speak up about this topic, but there's really nothing I can say, because any concerns I voice are met with what is essentially "get good, scrub."

I genuinely try very hard to shine a light on the RP of others, but play almost exclusively support characters who go unnoticed. Very few people could name any one character I've played. So it's either my style of roleplay isn't the kind appreciated by the DM team, or I am objectively bad.

[Cortex]

Don't over think it, I've been 20 ever since I first joined, for a time I was annoyed at not having a 30 when I thought I deserved one. Nowadays I don't care, probably don't deserve one with the style I play, staying IC but doing nothing extraordinaire.

[gilescorey]

Also, Tetra, I hope you don't feel like you need to self-censor! The day we have that in the community forums, will be a sad day.

I don't need to self-censor. Lorkas does it for me.

[Liareth]

I feel the need to speak up about this topic, but there's really nothing I can say, because any concerns I voice are met with what is essentially "get good, scrub."

I genuinely try very hard to shine a light on the RP of others, but play almost exclusively support characters who go unnoticed. Very few people could name any one character I've played. So it's either my style of roleplay isn't the kind appreciated by the DM team, or I am objectively bad.

Like anything else in life - you need to be noticed to be appreciated. If you don't market yourself then nobody will know about you. I'm making an assumption here about how you phrased the above - if your characters are always background props and don't enter the foreground at all, then you shouldn't be surprised that the DM team hasn't noticed you. In my experience, the most reliable way to earn a high RPR is to play a character who is proactive and takes a leadership role.

I can tell you right now that you're not objectively bad. RPR is a subjective thing. And the name is a misnomer, because it's not really a roleplay rating; it's more like a makingtheserveramorefunandenjoyableandrichplaceforotherplayersoftenattheexpenseofyourowncharactersgoaladvancement rating.

There's no shame in being 20 RPR. I was a 10 for a long time, then I reached 20, then I reached 30 for a bit, then I fell back to 20 which is where I am now. 20 RPR doesn't mean bad. It just means "normal". It could mean "the best writer and roleplayer the server has ever seen, but always puts their own interests ahead of other players", or it could mean, "somebody who keeps to themselves and does their own thing", or it could mean, "somebody who can barely string together two sentences, but is really nice and inclusive and always manages to create fun for those they play with".

[The GrumpyCat]

Sholar nailes it beautifully.

The style of a 30+ rpr's roleplay isn't 'fun' for everyone. Heck, sometimes it isn't always 'fun' for even those who have it! There's no point in striving to get that elusive 30 if it makes you miserable. At the end of the day, if you're having fun that's all that matters. This is, after all, a game. The only other thing to consider is to make sure you arn't taking away from other peoples fun.
Further more, if you're enjoying yourself then that in itself can shine out in your roleplay!

[Borin Drakkmurl]

I can't stress this enough:

Recommend other folk to the DMs. Don't worry about bias, don't worry about ooc shenanigans.

If you see someone's roleplay that just shines and makes you want to log in more often, send a quick shout out in the DM channel, and tell whatever DM pops up from under the mushrooms, that that player is cool and they should keep an eye out.

Or send them a PM here in the forums.

Even if an rpr bump is not the immediate effect, this might still have positive outcomes down the line.

That's all I can really think needs be done more often alongside the rpr system we now have. Promote the players you think deserve it.

I am sure it will make the work easier for the handfull of DMs that have to monitor an average of 100+ players a day.

[DarkDreamer]

Yeah but the problem with this is, you tie things like the Fey race into RPR which sadly is like saying, if you dont have 30 RPR, your CLEARLY not a good enough player to be playing a fey. While that may not be what was intended, that is actually what it comes across as, you already get boosted XP, but to make races require that instead of rewards...well thats just hard to say that your not good enough no matter how many years you play here, you will likely never be good enough.

[Commie]

I just wanna hit 20!

[Cortex]

Fey being a 30 only thing is an artifact of the past, when planetouched races were locked behind 30 RPB. All of them moved to award races, except fey, I believe it was due to the fact very few actually played fey and there was never an issue with fey numbers.

The intent of the RPB gate was to keep special races controlled.