Slavery System

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Durvayas
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Re: Slavery System

Post by Durvayas » Wed Sep 27, 2017 2:18 am

MoreThanThree wrote:
Commie wrote:Then you have bi-weekly slave 'revolts' of five people going 'ok now!' and mobbing their owner while shouting 'kill the masters!'
Literally nothing wrong with that.
EDIT
Mythical wrote:No one would have been able to safely own them.
Or that.
http://wiki.arelith.com/Slavery

This page would disagree mate. An occasional revolt is fine. Constant revolts are.silly.

likewise, its a given slaves level faster than their masters. They're constantly being taken out on adventure., They don't engage in politics, and if people see a slave moping about because their master isn't online, they drag them along.

Slaves throwing their weight around is silly. If a slave is constantly revolting, what recourse to PCs have? A violent slave is like a rabid dog. If it can't be trained to behave, it is killed. It's not fun for the owner to constantly have to beat and kill an unruly slave, while absorbing the political and social fallout from having one. When a slave is like this, it begs the question of why are you playing a slave, if you aren't willing to RP one?

A little rebellion is fine, but there comes a point where there is no other recourse but to kill said slave, often repeatedly, because it makes no sense to just shrug and free it. That would be rewarding bad behavior.
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Baron Saturday
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Re: Slavery System

Post by Baron Saturday » Wed Sep 27, 2017 4:46 am

MoreThanThree wrote:
Commie wrote:Then you have bi-weekly slave 'revolts' of five people going 'ok now!' and mobbing their owner while shouting 'kill the masters!'
Literally nothing wrong with that.
EDIT
Mythical wrote:No one would have been able to safely own them.
Or that.
I mean I could see it being not fun to have a level 30 slave character who nobody wants to own because they just assume they'll get killed.
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flower
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Re: Slavery System

Post by flower » Wed Sep 27, 2017 5:24 am

SwampFoot wrote:I never play a slave. I don't like the RP. Because of that, I never take a slave. There's a few times a slaver has been forced to the clamper and refused to be a slave. I don't think that's fair to the characters that are willing to play slaves.

If you aren't willing to play a slave, please, don't own slaves.

Exactly.

If there is rather famous slaver running around he should be aware that team good can team up and punish him in the very same manner. And as heroes get enslaved in stories slavers get caught, and sold off to suffer same fate they often bring.

So far there is no way for people around character being captured to punish the slaver IC.


That is one thing. The other thing is...many friends playing for example Elves has been exposed to play like "Be my slave, or die, Elf" and when said no got killed and bashed.

And what i found ridiculous was ammount of "young" "pretty" girl slaves. Not so long ago those slave "characters" were the most visible playing around.

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Baron Saturday
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Re: Slavery System

Post by Baron Saturday » Wed Sep 27, 2017 5:49 am

We're kinda straying from a discussion on how to improve the slavery system and veering towards dictating what forms of slave-based RP is acceptable, which is really not the point nor the purpose of this thread. So, in an effort to get back on track...

We've established that the slave clamper dialog should include a warning about the weightiness of the decision. I wonder if emphasizing that the slave collars are magical would open up the door for slave RP that doesn't require the collar? Something to make it clear that you can play a slave without having to tie yourself so firmly to the slavery mechanics - if, that is, that's something the admin team would be cool with seeing.
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Iceborn
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Re: Slavery System

Post by Iceborn » Wed Sep 27, 2017 5:58 am

Durvayas wrote:
MoreThanThree wrote:
Commie wrote:Then you have bi-weekly slave 'revolts' of five people going 'ok now!' and mobbing their owner while shouting 'kill the masters!'
Literally nothing wrong with that.
EDIT
Mythical wrote:No one would have been able to safely own them.
Or that.
http://wiki.arelith.com/Slavery

This page would disagree mate. An occasional revolt is fine. Constant revolts are.silly.
That page is older than sin and probably due to an update to reflect a more evolved server culture than at the time it was originally written, which is probably by the Third Reich of Arelith.
Misc Changes, with the Feats and Skills sublinks.
Available races
Spell Changes
Class Mechanics
Command Guide

Take a look before asking your questions!

JediZero
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Re: Slavery System

Post by JediZero » Wed Sep 27, 2017 7:19 am

Having read nothing of the entire topic: I have always maintained the slavery mechanic is one of the most unneeded and useless mechanics in the entire server. It stifles flexibility.

If someone doesn't want to be freed, if the story you're writing doesn't flow that way? What does it really matter? Find another reason to get back there. Have an RP reason you can't just walk out. Geas is a common reason, or your owner took something very personal that you're not leaving with out.

There were slave characters before the slavery mechanic, and there wasn't a need for a mechanical collar that you literally cannot break barring ~~spoilers~~ or paying off the slave clampers that basically are anathema to lawful goodie two shoe types.

This added to the fact that I have heard tales of people being pressured to accept the collar, and implications that if you don't want to be a slave you're a bad roleplayer, even though the rules strictly state that you cannot be forced into the role against your will, you have to OOCly consent.

And indeed, the implication being you either accept a slave collar, or you're killed and immediately bashed. Because if you don't want to wear a collar even though you lost PVP, you should be punished OOCly.

MoreThanThree
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Re: Slavery System

Post by MoreThanThree » Wed Sep 27, 2017 8:42 am

Durvayas wrote:The weak don't fear the strong.
If you're so weak that your own slave can kill you, why even force them to stay yours?
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FrozenSolid
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Re: Slavery System

Post by FrozenSolid » Wed Sep 27, 2017 10:54 am

I think that the seriousness of slavery is made more relevant by the Slavery Mechanic. Here's maybe a funny way to look at it,

If you don't like to run you probably won't run. But if for some reason you were heavily influenced to run you probably will and might find you enjoy it or atleast find it impactful and continue.

So with the slavery mechanic, maybe your Pc is going to be enslaved and you communicate oocly that that's okay but you still feel uneasy about it. So your Pc gets clamped, the start might be rough for your pc and you consider backing out, but the slavery mechanic isn't that easy to remove so you decide to stick it out or begin the rp course tl grt unclamped

I think that is good. The mechanic by merit of its semi diffcult nature to remove has influenced you to play to choose to either remain a slave or pursue an IC course Of action to get free. A counter argument is that you should never be influenced to do anything you don't want to, but i would consider this,

1. Consider the other PCs fun and story. Maybe they had been chasing your character for awhile, now that they caught you is it fair to back out when they finnaly got a chance to get you?
2. If your characters actions are meant to be impactful to other characters then it's fair for it to go both ways. Consider if your position was reversed, would you hope they play out the IC consequences?
3. By allowing RP to dictate the fate of your character for better or worse things get more exciting and meaningful. What's more interesting? Reading a new book with an unknown ending? Or reading a book that you already know the out come of?

I think that the slavery mechanic helps to make these qualities more real and impactful for all players. Like say you get clamped and after weeks of rp manage to break free! How great would that be!

"What's the day without a little night?"

I guess my whole point is that the slavery mechanic being the way it is now promotes a deeper more serious rp because it really takes some work to get rid of it ICly. It pushes for IC action.

And! Of course, if you're not comfortable, or feel the mechanic is being abused there's ways out all you have to do is communciate. It's a nice safety net that gives you some OOC power to play in a way that makes you happy or avoid overly negative situations. And that's important.
*Didn't just do that* As an arrow flies hitting someone in the face.

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Re: Slavery System

Post by DarkDreamer » Wed Sep 27, 2017 11:01 am

That and if you feel you HAVE been tricked into the collar...Contact your neighborhood friendly DM who CAN remove the collar, or help you find a resolve YOU as the player are happy with.

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Re: Slavery System

Post by LichBait » Wed Sep 27, 2017 12:09 pm

Having had a slave back in Udos Dro'xun was a thing, when the surface and UD was auto hostile to each other and there was no recognizable marker, I much prefer the mechanic which tends to be a marker for a slave to those around them. However, perhaps it could use a bit more flexibility, like having the master easily take off the collar when they want their slave to blend in elsewhere. (Perhaps this is already there, I'm not exactly fluent on the mechanical slavery options here).

I do know that having a slave serve your PC is much better, and enjoyable when both parties agree to it. Just shoot them an OOC tell, if one or neither players are having fun it's not really worth having the slave/master 'relationship'. My PCs have had two slaves in Andunor, and I never really got too in depth with it, but both were OOC talked about before the plunge was taken. Both rather enjoyable.

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susitsu
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Re: Slavery System

Post by susitsu » Wed Sep 27, 2017 1:15 pm

Commie wrote:I would never want to be a 'slave' to someone I wasn't OOC friends with beforehand, as there's a degree of OOC trust there that when you're RPing on that character it's still going to be fun. If something happens and that friend isn't around anymore, and you just get transferred to someone who doesn't really care what you think (which is a totally realistic opinion for a slaver to have to a slave), why play if that's not fun?

Additionally, while it is my understanding you can't be forced to put a collar on your neck, if you're playing a character who isn't of the strongest possible mental resolve, how can you justify NOT following your captors orders when they put a knife to your and your friends necks demand you put one on yourself? You kind of get stuck in this "well It would be IC for me to just put it on" and just sort of peer-pressured into doing it, and then you're stuck.

It's not something I'd ever doing, but the current system can really trap a player, and force them into a situation where their characters RP almost demands they collar up and go to the slave pits until they can finish some freedom quest, which they may, as players, just not want to do/deal with at all.
This kind of stuff literally causes people to quit and delete their characters.

There are many players who do not care, there are many players who are malicious, and there are many players too meek to speak up.

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Re: Slavery System

Post by The GrumpyCat » Wed Sep 27, 2017 1:47 pm

DarkDreamer wrote:That and if you feel you HAVE been tricked into the collar...Contact your neighborhood friendly DM who CAN remove the collar, or help you find a resolve YOU as the player are happy with.
Actually we're very careful about removing slave collers entirely. I mean - given some evidence we might do so, but we'd want evidence that you had been pressued into it oocly. Certainly we are happy to remove ownership from a slave if said owner hasn't been around a while. But removing the slave collar is a bit rarer.

I will say this.

As a DM I would NEVER punish a player for refusing the slave collar. IF you have been 'oocly pressured' then take screenshots and please report it to me.

Do I encourage players to roll with rp and such? Heck yes. But at the end of the day this is also about players having fun. I'm tottaly with Always Late there.

Honestly though, If you're unsure, but are thinking of giving it a go? Try the prisoner collar. See how you get on with that. If you enjoy it and want it to be more long term - go slave collar. But NEVER EVER feel oocly pressured by 'roleplay expecations.' That is how we loose good players.
This too shall pass.

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Re: Slavery System

Post by JediZero » Wed Sep 27, 2017 2:04 pm

DM GrumpyCat wrote: Do I encourage players to roll with rp and such? Heck yes. But at the end of the day this is also about players having fun. I'm totally with Always Late there.
My main issue is that the best slave character I've ever seen, Perri'ry, a hin that'd been basically broken, and turned into a tool of drow. He never wore a collar. He never was 'mechanically' a slave.

And it gave him so much flexibility. Sometimes we were able to play on his mental state to get him to ally with us, temporarily, sometimes he was just straight up all about drow. His was a tragic story, and I was fortunate to get caught up when the character was having a breakdown and revisiting everything that happened, and heard his tale.

When we tried to save him (several times), he'd escape on his own, instead of just out of nowhere an NPC yanking him back with no potential for RP intervention.

Can't say one way or another for the player, but the character was intriguing, interesting, and a tragic anti-villain

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Commie
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Re: Slavery System

Post by Commie » Wed Sep 27, 2017 2:19 pm

All said I think giant red ooc text popping up as a pure ooc confirmation saying something like "by hitting six you agree to the permanent status of the slave collar and admit you are fully aware of its implications and consequences," then make accepting the collar like the sixth dialog choice (so you can't even say you accidently machine gunned through the text) would solve nearly all the issues.

Until this topic I didn't even know there were two collars. I could have made a serious mistake and not known it. Ooc text you have to go through and accept would just fix this.

Edit;if you do go this route make sure it's 110% clear no one can make you do it and you should not feel peer pressured into doing it via rp, or even pushed to the point you feel obligated to do it, on both ic or ooc levels.

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Re: Slavery System

Post by hoshi » Wed Sep 27, 2017 3:07 pm

My general thought process is a slaver should be at least as committed to making sure that the player of the slave is enjoying the RP as they are. That doesn't mean the PC should be treated well, but the player should feel engaged. More so than a faction leader, nemesis, etc a slaver is in a direct position to make or break the fun of another player.

If it is pretty questionable for that being the case then I think becoming a slave/being a slaver is a bad idea. I'm all for adding prompts that spell it out in more detail.

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Re: Slavery System

Post by Commie » Wed Sep 27, 2017 8:06 pm

hoshi wrote:My general thought process is a slaver should be at least as committed to making sure that the player of the slave is enjoying the RP as they are. That doesn't mean the PC should be treated well, but the player should feel engaged. More so than a faction leader, nemesis, etc a slaver is in a direct position to make or break the fun of another player.

If it is pretty questionable for that being the case then I think becoming a slave/being a slaver is a bad idea. I'm all for adding prompts that spell it out in more detail.
Only issue with this is when irl gets in the way. What if your slaver 'master' gets moved to nights and weekends at work and you just can't see them around anymore? It's no ones fault but now you're sort of stranded.

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Re: Slavery System

Post by Durvayas » Wed Sep 27, 2017 9:00 pm

Commie wrote:
hoshi wrote:My general thought process is a slaver should be at least as committed to making sure that the player of the slave is enjoying the RP as they are. That doesn't mean the PC should be treated well, but the player should feel engaged. More so than a faction leader, nemesis, etc a slaver is in a direct position to make or break the fun of another player.

If it is pretty questionable for that being the case then I think becoming a slave/being a slaver is a bad idea. I'm all for adding prompts that spell it out in more detail.
Only issue with this is when irl gets in the way. What if your slaver 'master' gets moved to nights and weekends at work and you just can't see them around anymore? It's no ones fault but now you're sort of stranded.
And you've hit upon why slaves invariably outlevel their owners. Most slaves are used by eveyone around the master(or just their faction sometimes) with their tacit permission, so that the player of the slave can get RP even when the boss isn't around.
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Re: Slavery System

Post by DSM-IV » Mon Oct 02, 2017 3:18 pm

I have played a couple of slaves and currently playing one.
(Oh and I do miss Fadra)

I have had a good owner, mostly ok, and a few poor ones. Playing a slave is mentally exhausting. At times forcing me to take long breaks from playing. If you are attempting to really play as a slave you are supposed to get beaten down and treated like garbage. Because once you are free, you truly have gone through hell to get there. That is kind of the whole point.

It took me roughly 6 to 8 months using the new system to get my collar removed. My PC isn't a melee oriented PC. So, I really needed the help of others. Which I actually enjoyed. I think the whole point being to get help from others and getting some type of RP out of the slave freeing system.

Now, as far as, what should be done with the current system? I think nothing. Some of us want to try hard exhausting RP. Being a slave is suppose to be difficult, and I personally want it that way. Don't take it lightly, and when you do get yourself free it is quite the accomplishment.

Does there need to be an OOC statement at the clamper? I doubt it would do much good. If you don't put enough thought into becoming a slave then you probably aren't going to put much thought in reading the statement.
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Baron Saturday
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Re: Slavery System

Post by Baron Saturday » Mon Oct 02, 2017 5:32 pm

DSM-IV wrote:Does there need to be an OOC statement at the clamper? I doubt it would do much good. If you don't put enough thought into becoming a slave then you probably aren't going to put much thought in reading the statement.
I think the reasoning behind the OOC statement is that players, especially newer ones who weren't around when the slavery system was introduced, aren't realizing that they NEED to put considerable thought into becoming a slave.
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