Slavery System

[The Salt Elemental]

Yes. This. As someone who has had some seriously bad experiences with slave rp because of the way the system is now, yes.

[The GrumpyCat]

The idea of a hero becoming enslaved to some big bad guy is actually very prevelent through fantasy. It happens in Game of Thrones. In the Conan Stories. It happens in the one of the Narnia books. In Joe Albercrombe's Shattered Sea series, and many other books. Even in the Drizzt Do'Urden books Drizzt is briefly made a slave of the Illithids.

In many of these stories, the hero/heroine eventually escapes, after a long time of sufferent, scarred and changed by their experiences in one way or another.

But of course in other stories the character (not so often the hero/heroine) is shown as a perminently enslaved person- again changed and warped.

Mechanics add extra weight and clarity to roleplay situation. They arn't always neccesary, but they do aid. For example we could get rid of the settlment system entirely, and have people just 'declair' themselves leaders. Or we could get rid of the brokerage system. Or the exile system. Just depend on peoples honesty and coperation to roleplay certain aspects. However it is generally seen better that, in certain situations, it is better to have mechanical 'weight' there. Slavery is one of those.

If I wanted to make my character a 'slave' of a Drow household- either perminently or temporarly - If I was willing to do this OOC but wanted to roleplay unwillingness ICly - then I have to either engineer some odd roleplay magic that prevents me from 'escaping' (which is possible) or I depend on Underdark players being with me 24/7 when not in a cell, so I can roleplay that my character cannot escape, which is draining for the underdark players.

Slavery however should come with 'perks' as well as drawbacks - as mentioned prior, to balence it out and be 'realistic' but if you make slavery something too easy to 'dip into' then people will abuse it for mechanical means.

Arelith works as What You See is What You Get. Prior to the slavery update, if you wanted to explore that concept with your character,

So what we need is a slavery system which.

a) Has enough 'weight' to it that characters can't escape in the blink of an eye.
b) Has enough 'lightness' to it that people can play different sorts of slaves for different durations
c) has enough severity to it that players can't be slaves just for the mechanical perks
d) Has enough lightness to it that players don't feel too confined oocly, and are willing to try this.

This is a really difficult balence to make. Have we gotten it right? I don't know. But I've a feeling we'll always get it a 'little' wrong on one side or another.

It is worth mentioning however that as others have said, there are multiple ways out of 'slavery' if there are problems. Others have mentioned it above. But slavery SHOULD be a serious issue. You shouldn't choose the slavery option lightly. LIkewise, I'd strongly encourage anyone wishing to take a slave to stress what a meaningful option this is.

Likewise I wouldn't disparage the prisoner option. It's a wonderful middle ground that allows a person to explore a interesting story line without going to some really dark places. I find sometimes people expect too much from 'slavery' victories. Not understanding that a large amount of pcs, it's less a 'You win' and more a 'this is bump in my story.'

Don't be too salty when slaves/prisoners escape, sometimes slavery isn't a personal forever commitment, but more a 'bump in the road.' Though I do think it can help if the slave in question is a little open with this from the get-go.

Finally, slave roleplay will differ according to the slave, according to the expecations and desires of the owner, and yes according to the rpr of the players involved. The only realistic way of 'enforcing slave roleplay' I feel would be to restrict it to 30 rprs and over.
Whilst this will mean a higher quality of slaves, when collered, it will mean far, far, far fewer can be collered. And even then, you will probably encounter slaves who do not meet your 'expectations' because, with all due respects, your expecations may be too narrow.

So yes. Slavery. It's complex. For what it's worth - to go back to the origional topic. Generally nowadays I find that it's rare to have someone collered for slavery more than a couple of weeks. Most of the time, when I noticed a well known pc has been collered I expect it to be gone within a couple of weeks- generally as they follow the Super Secret Option.

[JediMindTrix]

I dunno, the slave collar doesn't stop PVP-happy yahoos from assuming a character is a spy and no-RP killing them on sight, rather than... you know, actually trying to RP with them and find out if they are a spy.

Been playing here for years and years and I've still never seen this happen.

[The GrumpyCat]

Bit late on the thread, but slaves don't get undercommon, and they still get attacked by drow raids.

Good points, my ownly concern (and I may be being too cynical here) is that people would make slave characters to level up with quietly, then dump the coller and walk away with the ability to speak undercommon (as an outcast but without the drawbacks from that).

Certainly it would make little sense for either of these abilities to be given to collered-in-game slaves.

[DarkDreamer]

Bit late on the thread, but slaves don't get undercommon, and they still get attacked by drow raids.

Good points, my only concern (and I may be being too cynical here) is that people would make slave characters to level up with quietly, then dump the coller and walk away with the ability to speak undercommon (as an outcast but without the drawbacks from that).

Certainly it would make little sense for either of these abilities to be given to collered-in-game slaves.

They can already do this with the slave collar fairly, since your surrounded by players that speak Xan and Undercommon all the time, you learn it fairly fast.

What most people don't realize, is you CAN skip "1" of the IG quests to remove the collar, so I won't reveal the paths, but if you cant do the melee part, skip it and move on.

[DarkDreamer]

I dunno, the slave collar doesn't stop PVP-happy yahoos from assuming a character is a spy and no-RP killing them on sight, rather than... you know, actually trying to RP with them and find out if they are a spy.

Been playing here for years and years and I've still never seen this happen.

I actually HAVE seen this, which is very sad, I know exactly who Jad's talking about in reference to this and I am glad the DM's stepped in.

[Traitor]

Bit late on the thread, but slaves don't get undercommon, and they still get attacked by drow raids.

Good points, my ownly concern (and I may be being too cynical here) is that people would make slave characters to level up with quietly, then dump the coller and walk away with the ability to speak undercommon (as an outcast but without the drawbacks from that).

Certainly it would make little sense for either of these abilities to be given to collered-in-game slaves.

They can already do this with the slave collar fairly, since your surrounded by players that speak Xan and Undercommon all the time, you learn it fairly fast.

What most people don't realize, is you CAN skip "1" of the IG quests to remove the collar, so I won't reveal the paths, but if you cant do the melee part, skip it and move on.

The alternative to that is to collect several copies of a particular book. Which cannot be copied, and has very limited ways of being found. (And also do not correspond to anything for the surface variant of slavery, if you want freedom its done from the UD, as far as I remember."

[Commie]

I would never want to be a 'slave' to someone I wasn't OOC friends with beforehand, as there's a degree of OOC trust there that when you're RPing on that character it's still going to be fun. If something happens and that friend isn't around anymore, and you just get transferred to someone who doesn't really care what you think (which is a totally realistic opinion for a slaver to have to a slave), why play if that's not fun?

Additionally, while it is my understanding you can't be forced to put a collar on your neck, if you're playing a character who isn't of the strongest possible mental resolve, how can you justify NOT following your captors orders when they put a knife to your and your friends necks demand you put one on yourself? You kind of get stuck in this "well It would be IC for me to just put it on" and just sort of peer-pressured into doing it, and then you're stuck.

It's not something I'd ever doing, but the current system can really trap a player, and force them into a situation where their characters RP almost demands they collar up and go to the slave pits until they can finish some freedom quest, which they may, as players, just not want to do/deal with at all.

[DarkDreamer]

The book thing....find one of like a dozen people that know how to use a printing press, or figure it out and MAKE the amount needed.

[DarkDreamer]

Just to add, if ANYONE is struggling with this, you can PM me on the forums here and I will try to help you out to figure it out if your stuck, since some of these took me a long while to figure out on my own.

[Durvayas]

I dunno, the slave collar doesn't stop PVP-happy yahoos from assuming a character is a spy and no-RP killing them on sight, rather than... you know, actually trying to RP with them and find out if they are a spy.

Been playing here for years and years and I've still never seen this happen.

I actually HAVE seen this, which is very sad, I know exactly who Jad's talking about in reference to this and I am glad the DM's stepped in.

That specific event is the only time I HAVE EVER seen this happen, and I'm glad that the DMs resolved the entire affair. It was a shitshow from start to finish, but thankfully, more or less an unprecedented one, and likely not to happen again for a very, very, very long time.

As for what you mean by being forced to put a collar on Commie. Just put on a prisoner collar to satisfy the RP, and if that isn't satisfactory to your captor, refuse in tells. If THAT isn't satisfactory and the slaver is adamant, report it.

To this end, I wish the clampers gave you more information about your rights as a player, even in brackets, just for the sake of keeping everyone informed about the all-important consent component of slavery RP.

[Nitro]

The book thing....find one of like a dozen people that know how to use a printing press, or figure it out and MAKE the amount needed.

The book is unprintable, after some players did just what you suggested to free half a dozen slaves in a couple of weeks.

Now on the other hand, it's just available in a single copy per reset, which means that if multiple slaves need it for their escapes it can take them several RL months just to wait for the book spawns.

[DarkDreamer]

The book thing....find one of like a dozen people that know how to use a printing press, or figure it out and MAKE the amount needed.

The book is unprintable, after some players did just what you suggested to free half a dozen slaves in a couple of weeks.

Now on the other hand, it's just available in a single copy per reset, which means that if multiple slaves need it for their escapes it can take them several RL months just to wait for the book spawns.

Fairly, making the book unprintable is just silly, especially since there is only "1" place to get the book and there is only one copy. So it really needs to be printable.

[BrilliantInsanity]

To this end, I wish the clampers gave you more information about your rights as a player, even in brackets, just for the sake of keeping everyone informed about the all-important consent component of slavery RP.

Even though getting onto any kind of persistent world server before absolutely devouring all background information is a concept that is foreign to me, this is stipulation I can get behind for those people that do.

[Commie]

Another option would be adding big-red colored ooc text to all the mechanical 'becoming-a-slave' dialogue so any player doing it always knew EXACTLY what it involved. So the duty of explanation isn't on the PC's.

[The GrumpyCat]

Haveing talked to some players and read this, I agree with this statement:

To this end, I wish the clampers gave you more information about your rights as a player, even in brackets, just for the sake of keeping everyone informed about the all-important consent component of slavery RP.

There really does need to be a bit of text, maybe even OOC text when taking the collar to the lines of 'This is a really serious deal dude. You are likely to be enslaved for quite some time and there are serious mechanical reprocussions. Do not take this collar unless you are sure.'

I also think that slave collers (whether first time character or collered in game) should be restricted to rpr 20+. Now - I would add that players of 10rpr should be allowed to get a collar from a DM if they so wish, but making it 20+ means that new players are less likely to be 'pressured' into taking it.

[Garveus]

There seems to be an unsettling lack of readily available information about the slavery system. Perhaps that's the core issue in this case? Also, as mentioned in the topic a few times, some might abuse this knowledge to force other players into uncomfortable situations.

I've played here for months and I still don't really know how exactly you become enslaved, I can only guess. For example, I've only recently found out about "-unrelent" command by browsing the wiki, but ironically, I've witnessed someone get PvPed (subdualed, lassoed and turned in to a clamper - if that's one of the ways to become a slave?) before, and come to think of that specific event again now, it might have been against their will.

[Sab1]

Considering the amount of slaves I have seen wandering alone on the surface killing things and such, it seems most slaves get a shocking amount of freedom, not to mention from playing in the UD many masters are providing their slaves gear and such. So there are perks.

As a slave you are the low of the low in the UD, so expect having to show a lot of people respect. My suggestion is if you don't want play someone who has to be humble and accept having to show people you might be able to pummel respect or if you are against things like being slapped or whipped (a slave should expect punishment and I'm not talking about graphic torture but most slaves probably are going to get a punishment from time to time) a few whip cracks for maybe not being respectful enough etc.. Then don't play a slave, you won't enjoy it.

[SwampFoot]

I never play a slave. I don't like the RP. Because of that, I never take a slave. There's a few times a slaver has been forced to the clamper and refused to be a slave. I don't think that's fair to the characters that are willing to play slaves.

If you aren't willing to play a slave, please, don't own slaves.

[Mythical]

Fadri was my first UD toon and I started slave. I also chose the even harder route of being (what back then was rare) an elf. The first UD toon I ran into was in Stonehold as I was trying to get her down there to be enslaved, wanting the rp that she was born in captivity and sold to Andunor. The player rped briefly with me, I had her disguised as wearing a collar and it in her description, then we had a conversation in tells. He asked me what I was after with her, brief or long term, if I already had a master in mind, what type of build she was, and then told me what he would expect if he were to buy her. It was all done openly in tells and I was just fine letting him buy her. Once he became more sparse in his play times we had another discussion and he agreed ooc to sell her off to a new Master of who my slave agreed to and who agreed they wanted her. All the price negotiation was done ic. I played Fadri for a very long time and had a lot of fun on her. She was never mistreated even though I was an idiot to start elf. I was always checked on in tells by the UD players to make certain I was alright with any punishment or hatefulness cast her/my way. They were accommodating and courteous in their interactions with me.

If you are having difficulties with the Master of your slave talk to them. How will they know if you don't express concern or unhappiness with the way things are going? They could think you are right on board with it.

[Durvayas]

Fadri was my first UD toon and I started slave. I also chose the even harder route of being (what back then was rare) an elf. The first UD toon I ran into was in Stonehold as I was trying to get her down there to be enslaved, wanting the rp that she was born in captivity and sold to Andunor. The player rped briefly with me, I had her disguised as wearing a collar and it in her description, then we had a conversation in tells. He asked me what I was after with her, brief or long term, if I already had a master in mind, what type of build she was, and then told me what he would expect if he were to buy her. It was all done openly in tells and I was just fine letting him buy her. Once he became more sparse in his play times we had another discussion and he agreed ooc to sell her off to a new Master of who my slave agreed to and who agreed they wanted her. All the price negotiation was done ic. I played Fadri for a very long time and had a lot of fun on her. She was never mistreated even though I was an idiot to start elf. I was always checked on in tells by the UD players to make certain I was alright with any punishment or hatefulness cast her/my way. They were accommodating and courteous in their interactions with me.

If you are having difficulties with the Master of your slave talk to them. How will they know if you don't express concern or unhappiness with the way things are going? They could think you are right on board with it.

I miss fadri. And I know I'm not the only one. <3

[MoreThanThree]

Why not give slaves teh chance to kill their owner to remove the collar? I know most of them are PVPers, but still.

[Commie]

Why not give slaves teh chance to kill their owner to remove the collar? I know most of them are PVPers, but still.

Then you have bi-weekly slave 'revolts' of five people going 'ok now!' and mobbing their owner while shouting 'kill the masters!'

[Mythical]

Long term slaves can be easily hit lvl 30 and be owned by a master that is no where close. Fadri and two other slaves were all lvl 30 and served the Temple even though they were not all owned by the Temple. They could have killed, maybe not all, by most of the important UD toons if they wanted. No one would have been able to safely own them.

[MoreThanThree]

Then you have bi-weekly slave 'revolts' of five people going 'ok now!' and mobbing their owner while shouting 'kill the masters!'

Literally nothing wrong with that.
EDIT

No one would have been able to safely own them.

Or that.