Mojo change over

[I hope you got money]

This could be applied to anything that changes, but writing a script that replaces all instances of the old mojo with the new mojo on log in isn't all that hard. I guess its not that big of a deal but I did have a bit of it stocked up that is now useless, and I doubt i am the only one.

[Irongron]

You can try using the DM Channel to get replacements.

I had no wish to change Mojo, but in the course of other updates I discovered there was a serious bug with it.

[viper92225]

You can try using the DM Channel to get replacements.

I had no wish to change Mojo, but in the course of other updates I discovered there was a serious bug with it.

I am a little confused how not wanting to change it but finding a bug translates to nearly doubling its DC and more then doubling the required crafting points, including forcing a single point dip into another craft to make the same thing after the update that they could before the update.

[Cortex]

It produces 10 mojo now instead of 1, doesn't it? I don't remember how much it did before.

[viper92225]

It produces 10 mojo now instead of 1, doesn't it? I don't remember how much it did before.

It does, but that was factored into my previous comment.

Pre-change you would get 1 Mojo for 1 adventurine dust, 5 berries, 5 fruit and 2 crafting points at DC 12
Post-change you get 10 Mojo for 10 glass vials, 5 adventurine dust, 10 fruit, and 24 crafting points at DC 22.

My post included the 10 crafting points to turn 10 glass into vials and 10 crafting points to turn sand into that glass. That brings it to 44 crafting points for 10 Mojo vs what would have been 20 crafting points for 10 Mojo before. To be completely fair though, I should include the crafting of the gem dust in the equation. With that being 1 CP (and it being art crafting negates my comment about needing to dip in a new trade post update) per gem dust the better comparison becomes:

Pre-change DC 12 herbalism, DC 3 art crafting, 30 CP for 10 Mojo
Post-change DC 22 herbalism, DC 3 art crafting, 49 CP for 10 Mojo

This is obviously assuming zero failures or lost material in either case, which the new recipe increases the likelihood of by requiring more crafted ingredients.

Add on to this the fact that Mojo is used in only four crafting recipes. Of those, one is a DC 8 herbalism craft and two of the remaining three are in a separate craft. It is entirely reasonable to expect characters that spec'd as 'master alchemists' to have had just enough ranks in art crafting and herbalism to make the mojo they needed for attunement potions and have no way to put the additional 10 ranks into herbalism that they suddenly need to do the same thing. Releveling does not allow us to change trade skills and Irongron said in another thread in this subforum that they would not be granting crafting respecs (an unsurprising stance that is inline with them not giving out rebuilds).

[iria_huntress]

^ That part is a fairly big problem. I usually use 10 bags of sand per 8 bottles/vials.

[viper92225]

Disclaimer, I realize that I have fallen down the rabbit hole here a bit, but I started doing the math and just kept taking it one step further.

A small statistical analysis on the new vs the old. Let us grant that the hypothetical crafter has enough ranks in all applicable crafts (they might not in reality) and that supplies on hand are unlimited (they definitely are not in reality). The minimum failure rate should be 5% (rolling a 1 out of 20 causing the auto failure).

In order to obtain 10 Mojo, the old recipe requires 20 creation rolls (10 for cutting gems and 10 for creating the 10 Mojo). Of these, half of all failures will lose a crafted ingredient and cause you to have to make 2 new creation rolls, the other half will be on the original lost ingredient and cause you to have to make 1 new creation roll to replace it. This means we can expect to fail 1 creation roll per 10 stack and have to spend on average .5 additional crafting points to overcome that (without going down the rabbit hole of failing 5% of our replacement crafting).

In order to obtain 10 Mojo, the new recipe requires 26 creation rolls (5 for cutting gems, 10 for glass, 10 for glass vials, 1 for creating the 10 Mojo). Of these, 1 can cause us to repeat the entire 26 creation rolls, 10 can cause us to repeat 2 creation rolls (failing vial requires new glass and vial creation rolls), and 15 will only cause us to repeat the failed creation roll (failing glass or gem crafting). This means we can expect to fail 1.3 creation roll per 10 stack and will have to spend on average 1.35 crafting points to overcome that (again without going further down the rabbit hole of applying our 5% failure to the up to 26 new creation rolls in our replacement crafting).

What this means is that statistically making any Mojo at all will now likely require more then a full IG day's crafting points and that 5% of the time when you go to make one you will lose 25 crafting points (10 for glass, 10 for vials, 5 for dust) worth of work and all the ingredients required to make that attempt.

I am overall a fan of the recent crafting changes that have been made, but I have to repeat my confusion about how not wanting to change this item has lead to a change that makes it more punishing to craft.

[Scurvy Cur]

The move from DC 12 to DC 22 also represents a change from "this is a good that you can make 50% of the time with a token point in cooking" to "You had better be a dedicated cook to make it", which is fairly huge.

Given that it's an input good in a decent number of non-cooking profession goods, it drastically increases the total number of points people (particularly alchemists) using things that require mojo will need to invest.

[iria_huntress]

Given that it's an input good in a decent number of non-cooking profession goods, it drastically increases the total number of points people (particularly alchemists) using things that require mojo will need to invest.

And let's face it. It is extremely rare that someone makes mojo for its "remove curse" property.

[Irongron]

The DC was just the default value based upon the value of the product. I can easily lower it.

Also glass, vials and bottles appear frequently in junk containers, and in larger stacks in chests.

[Blood on my Lips]

My thoughts on the change:

Mojo, per the old recipe, was a quick easy item to make that lowbies could make without spending a lot of money, time, or being over burdened with weight and sell to other players to pick up some gold.

The new changes make very not lowbie friendly.

[yellowcateyes]

Also glass, vials and bottles appear frequently in junk containers, and in larger stacks in chests.

Adding glass to anything makes its production much more cumbersome.

While glass can be found in crates, scavenging for it is a time-consuming gamble that might not even yield the materials you want. Crafting's about time efficiency and consistency in a lot of ways. It's generally easier for a crafter to just pick up coal and sand from places where they know they can find them, and shell out the CP needed to get the materials they want.

Scavenging's a decent option if you have a surfeit of online time to spend on opening random containers. Not a lot of people have that time, or want to spend it that way.

[TimeAdept]

And if you need to make it en masse, the single chunks you find will not do. I run through 6 pieces of glass if I make spell components, 12 if I make Skleen, and that's every 2.5 hours, not counting the coal that goes into it, or any failure chances. The only real way to do it is to get sand and coal, both of which are luckily plentiful, and then pay some schmuck outsource refining the DC 1-2-3 glass things to lowbies so you can spend your CP making the end result goods.

[TimeAdept]

The glass changes perfectly solve the bulk problem. What was 50 sand and coal is now 10! It's still best to capitalistically outsource the raw refining but not needing to haul in a desert and raid Santa's stash every time you need to make spell components makes things so much easier.