Surface dungeon feedback

[Cerk Evermoore]

sibayad has an unreleased dungeon and the Lost Desert could use an exp buff. / Not the forgotten city however which has great exp.

[SwampFoot]

I'd suggest that most of the experience trouble people speak of is due to the gift system and ECL increases of the characters played. Most areas feel designed for a no gift/ +0 ECL character to whom experience gain is much better. This actually feels right since building suboptimal characters with no gifts gain greater reward. As they should.

My biggest gripe with experience are the occasional random spawns.

Killed a black dragon, gained 9 experience. Killed a ridiculously over-powered-for-the-area imp in the Bendir Orc cave, used two stacks of kits, a -pray and about 30 mins to kill gained about 40. That is boss level difficulty that should have boss level rewards (the Star Sapphire gained was exceptional loot for the level of the area, though).

[Diegovog]

Why have locked doors in Guldorand's crypt that are indestructible? Forcing to have a lockpicker in the party mans the dungeon will be empty 98% of the time. Wasted dungeon.

And Glorag Mur has too many empty rooms with nothing in them. In the large first area, it has few spawn points and you end up walking and walking and walking in a bunch of empty rooms. It could use some rp flavor in these rooms and add some spawn points or at least a chance to spawn in most rooms/corridors.

Orog Chieftain in the Ice paths seems way overpowered.

[Iceborn]

Old but gold:
Troll shamans.

Flat no.
These things have auto-ghostly visage and a lovely, LOVELY spam of dispels AND confusions.
By the level you are supposed to be fighting these, you probably can't kill them without catching a few spells first, and praying that one you pass all the confusion saves - lest you spend a minute and a half getting beaten to death by the rest of the spawn that you didn't kill first since you prioritized the mage as you should.

Fun.

I know this is not strictly dungeon feedback, but these things are still here, and guess what, they are still horribly annoying to deal with.

[Irongron]

Old but gold:
Troll shamans.

Flat no.
These things have auto-ghostly visage and a lovely, LOVELY spam of dispels AND confusions.
By the level you are supposed to be fighting these, you probably can't kill them without catching a few spells first, and praying that one you pass all the confusion saves - lest you spend a minute and a half getting beaten to death by the rest of the spawn that you didn't kill first since you prioritized the mage as you should.

Fun.

I know this is not strictly dungeon feedback, but these things are still here, and guess what, they are still horribly annoying to deal with.

I've adjuted the Deep Troll Shamans to remove confusion, but the 'Troll Shamans' are a default NWN creature and thus I'd have to replace them in the module. They don't seem to spawn anywhere in the Crag caves though, so if possible could you tell me where they do spawn?

[Iceborn]

The only place where I've seen them spawn is the first cave that leads to the Talassian Fortress in the skull crags.

It was a couple of days ago.


Also. We just checked two dungeons:
Gnolls in the forest: Cool
Boogin Cave: Not cool

The gnolls need something to shorten the way back, and the boogin cave... The mobs in the area look like something that should be approachable by a level 15 party, gives the experience of level 15 mobs, and everything in there has a solid +35 AB.

Needless to say, I don't know many characters that can dodge 4 attacks at +35 at level 15.

[Lorkas]

The only place where I've seen them spawn is the first cave that leads to the Talassian Fortress in the skull crags.

They spawn in that map and also the one correcting to it that leads to the Stone Gauntlet.

[Diilicious]

The problem of Minauros is not one of balance, I think it's a great dungeon.

However, it doesn't match the danger and 'epicness' Hell should be, it shouldn't be something that every other adventurer talks about "lol killed some devils in hell". Ideally, Minauros and Avernus should both be supreme epic dungeons for ultimate rewards (like artefacts).

People say that about every dungeon, "went to red dragon island and put abazur to sleep xd" "brought back shark fins from blackfin those sharks fight like kittens" why does that matter? it is a game.. fun =/= realism.

People literally go to the abyss and kill paush like its a sunday afternoon stroll... it doesnt need to be mega epic, i needs to be mega fun, which i think it is right now.

The Benwick -> Avernus -> Benwick route is great fun and with the abyssal dragon can be challenging depending on your party composition. Good boss, lots to kill, good loot, not so bad amount of time to complete. gives a great feeling once you get back to the surface and out of that mess.

The Valley of Skulls (start) -> Phlegethos swamps -> Jangling Hiter -> Mentiri Prison -> cloven hoof (exit) is also an extremely good dungeon to do and is easily my favourite. Again, good loot, LOTS of things to kill with an okayish difficulty which again like anywhere else depends who and what you have brought with you. it doesnt take TOO long and you get a good feeling of accomplishment once its done. rather than a feeling of "thank Snuggle a Bugbear thats over" or "why did we bother".


In short, Avernus and Minarous are absolutely FINE as they are right now.

[Giftstoff]

I've got to agree with Cortex, both hell and the abyss are 16-21 dungeons when they need to be 26-30 dungeons of the utmost danger and highest rewards. Hell specifically is a joke, with the only real threat there being the stupid unlimited range archers who are only good due to that one trait and some very silly arrows.

[Cortex]

Coincidentically, Abazuur is on my radar.

[Aodh Lazuli]

Coincidentically, Abazuur is on my radar.

I have some faith in you doing a good job of this. Generally you make stuff which is the fun sort of difficult, and not the annoying sort of difficult.

[Durvayas]

All you really need to make hell epic again and return the rain of infinite attackers dropping in from above, but change them to be 1exp each with no loot so the place isn't farmed endlessly like it used to be.

Old Avernus was AMAZING and felt like a real struggle and dangerous situation, but people would sit there and farm the infinite mobs for hours and ruined it for everyone else. Bring it back, but ruin the incentive to stay for so long.

[yellowcateyes]

1exp each with no loot

Why visit Avernus at all, then?

Presumably, dangerous areas are made for adventuring. All the work spent on area design and creature balance would be wasted on something that exists only for the novelty of it existing.

[Wytchee]

1exp each with no loot

Why visit Avernus at all, then?

Presumably, dangerous areas are made for adventuring. All the work spent on area design and creature balance would be wasted on something that exists only for the novelty of it existing.

I'm sure a script can be devised that spawns progressively harder enemies the longer a group remains in the area, progressing to mobs that make any PC nope out of there. Make it a legitimate challenge, but one based on how long a group decides to stay.

[-XXX-]

I guess this is not surface exclusive, but I'd like to say that most spellcaster mobs in dungeons for higher levels feel ...pretty much the same. They autocast the same series of wards - usually acid sheath, shadow shield, spell mantle and haste (to combo with auto quicken ofc), then proceed to alternate between spamming dispels and direct damage colossal AoEs (with the exception of frost giants, this is almost always the meteor swarm spell).

Now instead of concerning myself with the actual challenge of these spawns, I'd rather like to point out their repetitiveness - sometimes I am having trouble discerning whether my character is fighting Gauths, Entropic Sorcerers, Chosen of Baphomet, Fire Giant Mages or those Zhentarim mages in the Manor of Mourn - they all feel more or less the same just with different skins.

[SwampFoot]

Boogins popped up in the Arelith wood leaving me wondering what the heck just happened. They seem a bit much compared to the areas passed to get there. My level 16 ranger and his animal companion were blinded and beat down post haste in an area usually occupied by bugbears and snake cultists.

[Durvayas]

Boogins popped up in the Arelith wood leaving me wondering what the heck just happened. They seem a bit much compared to the areas passed to get there. My level 16 ranger and his animal companion were blinded and beat down post haste in an area usually occupied by bugbears and snake cultists.

You may be able to chalk this up to a population script.

[Diilicious]

Boogins popped up in the Arelith wood leaving me wondering what the heck just happened. They seem a bit much compared to the areas passed to get there. My level 16 ranger and his animal companion were blinded and beat down post haste in an area usually occupied by bugbears and snake cultists.

You may be able to chalk this up to a population script.

the dungeon that had snake cultists in it, now has extremely tough boogins in it, not sure its a population issue

[Iceborn]

I have two things to say about boogins:

Boogin. Spirit. Totem.
50 AB.

[Kirito]

Boogin. Spirit. Totem.
50 AB.

Parry Skill 70, problem solved

[Iceborn]

Boogin. Spirit. Totem.
50 AB.

Parry Skill 70, problem solved

By the time you have 70 of parry, those boogins are giving 1xp each.
Kirito pls ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

[Kirito]

Boogin. Spirit. Totem.
50 AB.

Parry Skill 70, problem solved

By the time you have 70 of parry, those boogins are giving 1xp each.
Kirito pls ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

Of the order of 10 so I think (can't check but it was reasonable)

[Wytchee]

Arelith could do with fewer perma-blinding mobs, is all I'm saying.

[OutOfChwi]

Checked out some of the new areas and spawns.

Gnoll area: Like the area, wish it was bigger but makes a nice loop in with Boogins

Boogin area: Tough but manageable. The boss there could use some tweaking. Think he has like 35 AB with 6 attacks which is hard to deal with mid to late teens.

The barbarians past brog: The bosses seem more manageable now, the AB of all spawns is pretty high but its manageable with a dedicated tank. Dissapointed the resources were changed though

Crags crypts. A lot tougher than before and its the same or less xp. Higher ab higher ac 300 HP undead some immune to crits which makes it tiring to wear down that many HP. Think this could maybe use an xp boost or tone spawns (even just HP) down a little, when you get more xp for easier spawns in surrounding areas.

Thanks for all your hard work Cortex, its been great going through the new areas!

Cheers
Chwi

[Diilicious]

By the time you have 70 of parry, those boogins are giving 1xp each.
Kirito pls ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

Of the order of 10 so I think (can't check but it was reasonable)

I got 12 or so from each one with no gifts at lvl 30