Feylock Feedback

[susitsu]

I really don't like the "unfun" parts of this change and the fact it's done nothing at all to inspire change in the warlock climate (in-fact, it's made those oh-so-rare not conlocks unviable imho) but I do like the DI change because generally speaking, when I look at a feylock on a rogue, my first decision is to just not even touch that normally.

The fact it's a little less useful against sneaks and high APR builds is pleasing to me.

[Queen Titania]

Titania doesn't grant pacts (in-game anyways). And fey really do have little regard for life, even the goodly fey.

I would totally sign up to pact with Titania if I could.

*Adds to future pacted list*

In seriousness, the tone of how fey warlocks are perceived will be up to the players. I've run events to keep the tone in check in the past, especially if I think a fey warlock is acting too good-aligned, but their lack of stigma versus their counterparts still largely remains.

I do agree that invisiblity/displacement can be annoying, but displacements perks are interesting in the realm of being unable to be breached, so I personally am kind of for it.

[One Two Three Five]

Maybe self-only displacement can be turns/level?

[susitsu]

The major issue many PCs have with fiendlocks is purely the summon.

Many groups tolerate fiendlocks as long as they don't summon around them. Before any unoptimal cucks say it, fiendlocks by no means stop being useful without their summon, and most of the server is certainly aware they continue to be highly useful on a grind for everything else they bring to the table without even having their summon out.

[Rwby]

People do remember Feylocks had displacement before the change, right?

[DirtyDeity]

Yes. Always had Displacement.

[DirtyDeity]

My two cents:

Wounding Whispers does not fit in the Feylock spell list. It's WAY too strong, countering it with silence DOESN'T work as silence can be EASILY dispelled.

I've done some testing, and most characters are going to die to the damage reflection before having a remote chance of killing me. In a way, there's very little that threatens me now, as a max-level Feylock.

That being said, you CAN NOT remove it, you CAN NOT put it on a cooldown. Doing anything to harm a Feylock's ability to keep Wounding Whispers up 100% of the time is going to turn the class into a stinking dungheap considering all of the abhorrant nerfs it recieved. This spell is the only thing keeping it together. Problem is, it makes them too strong.

I don't really have a suggestion to make. Just trying to say things as they are. I'm already displeased with the fact that my character turned into a big chunk of HP with Damage Reflection, and turned from the greatest blessing a party could recieve to just some weird inconsistant solo-character that can do barely anything in a group and is only good for tanking just about anything in PvP.

[Lilja_91]

Feylocks were fun, now they are much less fun.
And as many say, with how haste works now and the lack of imp-invis. They lost their role as a support/damage dealer, and are now simply a very niché' magic cannon.

Edit: I made my warlock before the big changes, and I mean the "big" changes where the class was revamped entirely. I am kinda glad I put plenty of Cha on my char, because back then it wasn't as big a thing. At any rate, when you get to the level 20+ dungeons, most the enchantment spells my feylock has stop mattering due to immunities and high saves.

Furthermore, when it comes to PvP there's the same problem. Added is that most PCs have wands with mindblank and etc.

All in all, I think this is a giant nerf and I really hope it will be revised to strengthen some other aspect of the warlocks, instead of purely being a debuff.

[Durvayas]

Perhaps the happy middle ground would be a weaker magic shield. Not death armor, as that is laughably weak, nor acid sheath, as that is too strong.

Elemental shield, with the fire might work, but tbh, I don't think it needs damage reflection as that pushes into the barbarian niche.

[OverTheSeaToSkye]

Sorry Titania. You know I love you and your grigs casting SoV on me.

[JediMindTrix]

Added is that most PCs have wands with mindblank and etc.

I, personally, would love a mindblank wand

[If Valor Were Inches]

You could always take epic elemental resistance sonic and nullify/reduce any threat that sonic shield has.

[One Two Three Five]

Silence wands.
Its of, I guess, other note, that displacement can't be invis-purged, too.

[ArcanaFTW]

Warlock is clearly meant to replicate the NWN2/PnP class system, so why not balance it by replicating it further? Remove the ability to quicken/haste eldritch blasts, limit the amount of spells warlocks can receive and allow them to choose from a list, add eldritch blast variants/effects and etc.

[Umskiptar]

Wounding Whispers does not fit in the Feylock spell list. It's WAY too strong, countering it with silence DOESN'T work as silence can be EASILY dispelled.
...

Words of wisdom.

Silence wands.

This is by far one of the worst arguments against infinite Wounding Whispers. You are going to stop running after a hasted feylock to use a wand on yourself that will only last for 12 seconds. 12 seconds against a 700+ HP, DI/DR meatwall that will keep running, and likely put more distance between you and him. Unless you have a Bard or a Cleric with extended silence, this tactic is very bad.

Giving one of the tankiest classes in-game one of the strongest biteback damage shields is a mistake in design. Feylocks are ranged barbarians now, in fact, they are much better than barbarians.

[One Two Three Five]

So are they unplayably bad or heavily overpowered?
Still on the 'swap WW for cold evards' camp, myself.

[Umskiptar]

So are they unplayably bad or heavily overpowered?

Alone? Heavily overpowered.
With a team? Suddenly less useful for the well-being of the entire team.

[Liareth]

We've discussed it and we're going to make a few more changes, including:

- Removing wounding whispers for feylocks. [we haven't decided what to replace it with, so suggestions are welcome - maybe we should replace it with imp invis?]

- Allowng feylocks to cast haste on a cooldown when targeting characters other than themselves. The cooldown will be equal to 10 rounds or (duration your haste would last - 1) rounds, whichever is lower. For example, if you were level 8, your cooldown would be 7 rounds. If you were level 11+, your cooldown would be 10 rounds. You may only have haste active on one other character at a time and you can infinitely cast it on yourself. This gives feylocks the ability to bring some haste utility to their party on selective targets.

- Removing invisibility for fiendlocks (why was that a thing? It doesn't really make sense given the class design).

[Mithreas]

+1 to those proposed invis changes (both of them).

[DirtyDeity]

Think carefully how to make feylocks notably stronger if you remove Wounding Whispers.

As they are now, if you remove Wounding Whispers, the class is 100% dead.

[DirtyDeity]

On a more relevant note:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h-0G_FI61a8 R I P.

[One Two Three Five]

Invis for both is closer to the 'original' warlock's Walk Unseen, and was nice to have while it lasted, I guess.

If you can only pull off of the bard spell list, maybe self-only imp invis, or using that same system on it?

[Rodent]

For purely thematic reasons I'd love it if the feylock capstone spell was infinite Shades. Are they good? Not that much, although swarming enemies with a lot of crippling strike nonsense can be useful. Are they thematic? With the feylock emphasis on illusion...Sure.

[Liareth]

Think carefully how to make feylocks notably stronger if you remove Wounding Whispers.

As they are now, if you remove Wounding Whispers, the class is 100% dead.

I don't think they are dead at all, unless your definition of dead is "being nerfed from godtier to average-aboveaverage tier".

[One Two Three Five]

For purely thematic reasons I'd love it if the feylock capstone spell was infinite Shades. Are they good? Not that much, although swarming enemies with a lot of crippling strike nonsense can be useful. Are they thematic? With the feylock emphasis on illusion...Sure.

I so heavily second this that my keyboard broke.