Feylock Feedback

[Rwby]

Having played around a fair bit with my 'lock post update, I thought I'd leave some feedback. Sadly, it's pretty negative.

It's not a balence issue, either. Those have been pretty much covered in other threads. It's just that the class is less _Fun_.

Having to repeatedly cast Invisability and Displacement to mimic the effects of Improved Invis just isn't fun. Much like having to cast four hundred million 4hp heals, rather than half that of slightly better awful heals.

Dealing substantially less damage on not one, but most of your primary attacks that arn't super short range is less fun. Now you can kite one enemy and kill it reaaaaallllllyyy slowly. It's not more challenging, or a different style of play it's the same style of play made cripplingly slow.

Gust of Wind is super dubious, short range against enemies rushing towards you means you're as likely to knock yourself over as you are them, dying to knocking yourself over is not much fun, and it's no more effective at crowd control than Cloud of Bewilderment.

Pushing hold Monster to a later level just vastly pushes back the area's you can safely go till later levels, restricting your play experience. This too, is not fun.

Yes, Arelith is a party server, but Warlock is probably the single hardest class to find a party with. Feylock already struggled terribly at lower levels to do anything at any speed. These changes have made that even less fun.

Restricting haste to a self cast likewise, makes you less useful to that party you find, which is a little less fun too. Removing Infinate mass haste made sense, that's far to effective for casting mid combat, but constantly casting lesser haste on a whole party is a clear trade off for doing anything else useful.

It just feels like while the update might have been targeted at perceived balance issues with high level Feylocks, it's not been thought through in terms of making playing the class an enjoyable experience.

Thanks for listening.

[OutOfChwi]

+1

[If Valor Were Inches]

Having played around a fair bit with my 'lock post update, I thought I'd leave some feedback. Sadly, it's pretty negative.

It's not a balence issue, either. Those have been pretty much covered in other threads. It's just that the class is less _Fun_.

Having to repeatedly cast Invisability and Displacement to mimic the effects of Improved Invis just isn't fun. Much like having to cast four hundred million 4hp heals, rather than half that of slightly better awful heals.

Dealing substantially less damage on not one, but most of your primary attacks that arn't super short range is less fun. Now you can kite one enemy and kill it reaaaaallllllyyy slowly. It's not more challenging, or a different style of play it's the same style of play made cripplingly slow.

Gust of Wind is super dubious, short range against enemies rushing towards you means you're as likely to knock yourself over as you are them, dying to knocking yourself over is not much fun, and it's no more effective at crowd control than Cloud of Bewilderment.

Pushing hold Monster to a later level just vastly pushes back the area's you can safely go till later levels, restricting your play experience. This too, is not fun.

Yes, Arelith is a party server, but Warlock is probably the single hardest class to find a party with. Feylock already struggled terribly at lower levels to do anything at any speed. These changes have made that even less fun.

Restricting haste to a self cast likewise, makes you less useful to that party you find, which is a little less fun too. Removing Infinate mass haste made sense, that's far to effective for casting mid combat, but constantly casting lesser haste on a whole party is a clear trade off for doing anything else useful.

It just feels like while the update might have been targeted at perceived balance issues with high level Feylocks, it's not been thought through in terms of making playing the class an enjoyable experience.

Thanks for listening.

From what I've seen, I don't see much of a party gathering difficulty, at least not much more than other classes, especially if you're in the underdark. You'll see people RP their suspicion, or discomfort, or honestly, nothing at all. A lot of low level characters don't know what a warlock fully is, making low levels nice and easy to bluff or be honest, whatever your flavor is, on your powers. And even if they do, they often still adventure with you, if with distrust, because they need help still.

Personally my problem with Warlocks was they could do too much. There are some problems and the update isn't perfect, and it could see changes down the road again, but the update does help take them away from doing every niche: Being able to support, being able to take a ton of damage without falling, controlling enemies with dispels and enchantments, and being able to do a lot of damage. Now they lose damage when doing dispels and enchantments, or can do damage, and are better at resisting certain elements rather than taking damage better than dwarves who are focused in it can.

Yes, you lost a bit of power, and you'll have to learn to better use that gust of wind or other tactics. But I think it's a start for a better balancing direction, if an imperfect one.

[Rabbid]

and are better at resisting certain elements rather than taking damage better than dwarves who are focused in it can.

This. It was kinda silly how a warlock had Higher DR than a dwarf who takes 18+ levels of Dwarven Defender, without the mechanical Drop in Offensive Power that said dwarf would take.

[One Two Three Five]

Bear with me here: How possible would it be if, starting at.. I guess 10? Warlocks got 1% physical immunity every 2 levels, ending at 10% at 30? Would that feel a bit nicer, if not technically being a 'difference' at 30?

[a1b2]

It was kinda silly how a warlock had Higher DR than a dwarf who takes 18+ levels of Dwarven Defender, without the mechanical Drop in Offensive Power that said dwarf would take.

Except warlocks do less damage less often, are hated by everyone on the surface the moment someone realizes you are a warlock and being a bard without spells, can't buff their AC up much without massive multiclassing, which cuts into the warlock power.

The con DR build was made to allow warlocks to actually have a chance to survive instead of getting rotfl rolled by pretty much every other build/content that is able to reach them thus interrupting spells, using kd, dispelling summons (for devil/demon pacts) any one of which will easily decimate the warlock.

Why were they so successful before? its simple. They were able to out run what would other wise kill them. Feylock with haste and invis'ed concealment, devil/demon-lock with summons to keep foes at arms distance.(which is destroyed now with the extremely long timer that only starts AFTER your summon dies....Hate the timer. I hope it is done away with completely or at least set at the start of the summon, which, while still disgusting, will at least feel less like a giant laughing middle finger)

With the changes that means warlocks are now even less useful and much more incredibly squishy even WITH the non-ac supported ball of HP and dr they could get with a very restrictive build setup.

[RedGiant]

I could live with most changes. However...as mentioned above...the button pushy madness of removing improved invisibility, yet leaving the ability to create the same effect, just seems sorta cruel and carpal-tunnel inducing. It was a nice reward simply to not have to push this many buttons.

I also still advocate for Dominate Monster as the pinnacle of the Fey Warlock's beguiling efforts (maybe with a cooldown?). I can't see this as any more OP than unlimited Balorz.

A final observation, does not this update sorta make Infernal/Abyssal even more insanely attractive? I know Fey Warlocks somehow got a OP reputation from their utility in PvP, yet I would argue Fiendish/Abyssal Warlocks are even more OP'ed in their own right. While perhaps a tad under Fey Warlocks in PvP ability, the PvE module-curb-stomping ability of the Fiendish/Abyssal in legendary.

[Dalenger]

For the sake of arguing for the side in favor of nerfing warlocks, I'm going to have to disagree with you on a few points.

Except warlocks do less damage less often

Before the nerf, a warlock did 2d4/lvl per round (given haste or quicken spell). That's easily 120+ unblockable magic damage per round. On top of that, a save-or-disabled large AoE effect with DCs that could easily reach into the 30s without much investment. Plus, its not even a melee ability: its as long range as a bow, only with infinite ammo and way more damage potential.

Why were they so successful before? its simple. They were able to out run what would other wise kill them.

True, warlocks had crazy survivability back in the day. But any ol' monk can run away from the battle. A warlock could run, do 120dps, and summon infinite swarms of overpowered beasties longer than any class on the playing field. The warlock wasn't the best at anything, but they were good enough at everything (buffing, dps, tank, utility) to be a must-have for any party.

Plus, they got DR.

Plus, they got a choice of damage type.

Plus, they got infinite buffs.

Plus, they got infinite dispels.

EDIT: Plus, they got UMD (thx Durvayas).

See where I'm going?

devil/demon-lock with summons to keep foes at arms distance.(which is destroyed now with the extremely long timer that only starts AFTER your summon dies....Hate the timer. I hope it is done away with completely or at least set at the start of the summon, which, while still disgusting, will at least feel less like a giant laughing middle finger)

The timer needed to happen. Before the timer, warlocks had a infinite stack of get-out-of-jail-free cards. Now, there's actually *gasp* risk of fully depending on your summon to solo-tank a dungeon five levels beyond you.

Warlock is probably the single hardest class to find a party with.

I guess? But not in my experience. Stay away from the goodie-two-shoes paladins, and everyone else I've met is true neutral enough not to pass up partying with as good a dps as the warlock. Maybe waaay back in the day when warlocks were a new thing there was a taboo about them, but now everyone and their mums know a warlock and its not that big of a deal.

It's not a balence issue, either. Those have been pretty much covered in other threads. It's just that the class is less _Fun_.

I really like the new warlock nerfs. imo they played a big part in the powercreap of the server-- I've been in favor of slashing their dps for a while now. However, if all these new restrictions are making the class unfun, then yeah, its an issue. But not if its not unfun because "I can no longer solo mob farm XP for three hours without going through a single stack of kits". In my mind the warlock was always built around the idea of a never ending stream of low DPS. You'll never out DPS a fighter or out buff a wizard, but you will stay in the fight much longer than either.

[Durvayas]

Fiendlocks were balanced for PvP long ago. Feylocks had their time in the sun, with one recently winning what was, by all accounts, an 11v1 engagement. This was a needed nerf to their PvP capability late game.

The DR change was nescessary for reasons. It didn't make sense that warlocks, simply by being warlocks, had higher DR than any other build that was focused in it. It wasn't really fair that warlocks could do as much damage as an IGMS every round while at the same time disabling and dispelling their targets infinitely, on top of having the UMD to timestop to ensure a win. Now they must choose between damage, or disabling. This was a good design decision.

I'm with Dalenger above on virtually every point he made. A warlock plays the same role as a TF sorc, only they are more versatile.

[WhereButterfliesGoToDie]

Just adressing a few things mentioned above, primarily about dwarven defenders in regards to warlocks.

An 18th level DD with EDR3 will end at 21 DR, which surpasses that of the warlock, along with an offense that actually surpasses the warlock's in alot of cases. A warlock is capped at a rough 100 damage a round, whereas the dwarven defender has a potential to deal a rough average 150, depending on choice of weaponry, target AC and likelihood of landing the last two attacks of a hasted flurry. Not really related, but DDs get alot of hate.

100 damage a round is not alot of damage. Fiendlocks augment this fact with summons, while feylocks did it through party utility. What made feylocks mechanically superior on the really high end of things, is that the fiendlock who offers little to his teammates, can be crippled by the removal of his summon, while a feylock could both replace a party mage through the application of infinite mass haste/imp invis and dish some support damage on the side. In PvP, they kited incredibly well, while possessing the innate tankiness of a warlock. A good feylock was a raidboss, while one not well-versed in kiting was an essential 100 damage a round capped sack of health who'd drop to a focused assault.

Also note that alot of highlevel boss encounters and dungeons are practically impervious to non-positive damage sources for some reason, of which the feylock has an infinite supply. Doing Old Udos/Mount Baphomet/Paush, and a few other places without a feylock is borderline impossible, on behalf of the very, very heavy reliance on positive energy and situationally cold damage.

With alot of the utility being removed, feylocks landed in a peculiar spot. They no longer replace a mage, and they were made a notch more annoying to kill by the addition of Wounding Whispers. They still do have their very beneficial damage elements(primarily positive energy). But, they don't really offer any utility to a party anymore. The question, I suppose is how one would find a middleground.

[flower]

I spent last two months playing along feylock.

Friend never had an issue to get a party on surface. He traveled with priests, paladins, Elves, Dwarves. He was simple friendly feylock and allowed others in party to face dungeons much higher their levels.

Any place he/we had gone to, was like...mass haste....dominate, hold hold hold hold a when whole area was being held, my character and her summon walked up killing things. Hell, he was better in that too. Dmg 70 per blast on his early 20s levels killed all NPCs before i finished 2 enemies....and even when npcs were immune to hold his blast simple made our way in any dungeon/place we have visited.

The game has never been so easy before :O

Edit: And it never mattered what save NPC or player had. He kept casting it (and killing target in proces) until target failed it.

[Clive Ashwood]

Feylocks are still perfectly viable, even if they are not the single best class/path anymore. And I have seen almost zero stigma attached to being a feylock while playing my current character. If anything I have seen the opposite. On the few occasions characters that have attempted to question the origin/nature of their powers, they have been shamed for being intolerant or fanatics.

[a1b2]

Your points:

Before the nerf, a warlock did 2d4/lvl per round (given haste or quicken spell). That's easily 120+ unblockable magic damage per round. On top of that, a save-or-disabled large AoE effect with DCs that could easily reach into the 30s without much investment. Plus, its not even a melee ability: its as long range as a bow, only with infinite ammo and way more damage potential.

into 30's only if you didn't go for DR. it used to be DC or DR, not both. sounds balanced already.

(edited for points)summon infinite swarms of overpowered beasties
Plus, they got DR.
Plus, they got a choice of damage type.
Plus, they got infinite buffs.
Plus, they got infinite dispels.
EDIT: Plus, they got UMD (thx Durvayas).

A: LOL overpowered? hardly, in playing a devil pack'ed warlock even a greater conjuration focused max lvl'ed pure warlock's summon gets ripped apart VERY quickly by many many npc's (and even faster by most PC's who arn't simply ignoring the summon to go after the warlock himself)
B: DR or DC. you couldn't do both. that's already balanced
C: limited choice of damage types. I know fey complain about trolls constantly due to no fire/acid and apparently positive damage is essencial vs demons/devils which the other side of warlocks don't have. so again. its about limited choices.
D: LOL again, infinite buffs? for devil/fiend, the buffs are what you would have with cheap potions. on the fey side, yes imp invis and haste are HUGE boons, but they are simply saving you from buying low level potions/scrolls. There are no spells that offer the buffs that a mid level cleric/wizard/druid(even a non lock bard in a few cases) can't do better on.
E:Valid point on the infinite dispells. I got nothing there. only thing that is even close to being valid (but not quite making it) is to say its a low dc dispel compared to a caster of similar levels... but since its unlimited.... they only have to roll low once so I have to give you this point.
F:UMD isn't a valid point for or against the nerf as many other classes have it

The timer needed to happen. Before the timer, warlocks had a infinite stack of get-out-of-jail-free cards. Now, there's actually *gasp* risk of fully depending on your summon to solo-tank a dungeon five levels beyond you.

already made my point that they aren't as strong as you believe they are. I used to try to do a solo dungeon that was simply MY level and wouldn't be able to solo it where a wizard, cleric, WM,or fighter/rogue would easily do it.

I guess? But not in my experience. Stay away from the goodie-two-shoes paladins, and everyone else I've met is true neutral enough not to pass up partying with as good a dps as the warlock. Maybe waaay back in the day when warlocks were a new thing there was a taboo about them, but now everyone and their mums know a warlock and its not that big of a deal.

When that happened before DM's brought the hammer down on feylocks HARD. I had to go into hiding in the UD because they were nicer... HARD...

It's not a balence issue, either. Those have been pretty much covered in other threads. It's just that the class is less _Fun_.

This is the last quote as its the biggest issue. The warlock class isn't as fun anymore because it has been nerfed into the ground and lost the main key features that made it fun. (imp invis/haste and the infinite summons that could be useful -AFTER- taking the time to buff them, but on the fly are mere distractions so you can get away hopefully and it didn't always work. (I enjoyed the very beginning when devil/demon warlocks had imp invis as well for a short while. they get see invis so it made sense.) This all on the fey vs demon/devil warlocks on one side and the choice between DC or DR on the other side. That had the balance.

[a1b2]

Feylocks are still perfectly viable, even if they are not the single best class/path anymore. And I have seen almost zero stigma attached to being a feylock while playing my current character. If anything I have seen the opposite. On the few occasions characters that have attempted to question the origin/nature of their powers, they have been shamed for being intolerant or fanatics.

+ 100,000,000,000 (and I want to give you huge thumbs up and stars circling your post)

This, SOOOO MUCH THIS! specifically the last sentence. It was supposed to be a part of the class! It is a bit of a sign of the times where even the most evil actions are ignored and people get mad if you say they are evil because its being intolerant or fanatical of YOU for calling evil, evil.

WARLOCKS WERE NEVER SUPPOSED TO BE TRUSTED. THERE IS NO GOOD WARLOCK, THE CLOSEST IS ONE STRUGGLING TO SIMPLY BE NEUTRAL AND THAT IS ON BOTH FEY AND DEVIL/FIEND.

When it got to warm and fuzzy reactions to warlock/feylocks DM's called down heavenly(or fey...ly) hammers and reminded EVERYONE in a number of WORLD EVENTS that even a feylock isn't to be trusted completely.

THIS is where balance should be played with, not the abilities/spells

[If Valor Were Inches]

Just adressing a few things mentioned above, primarily about dwarven defenders in regards to warlocks.

An 18th level DD with EDR3 will end at 21 DR, which surpasses that of the warlock, along with an offense that actually surpasses the warlock's in alot of cases. A warlock is capped at a rough 100 damage a round, whereas the dwarven defender has a potential to deal a rough average 150, depending on choice of weaponry, target AC and likelihood of landing the last two attacks of a hasted flurry. Not really related, but DDs get alot of hate.

100 damage a round is not alot of damage. Fiendlocks augment this fact with summons, while feylocks did it through party utility. What made feylocks mechanically superior on the really high end of things, is that the fiendlock who offers little to his teammates, can be crippled by the removal of his summon, while a feylock could both replace a party mage through the application of infinite mass haste/imp invis and dish some support damage on the side. In PvP, they kited incredibly well, while possessing the innate tankiness of a warlock. A good feylock was a raidboss, while one not well-versed in kiting was an essential 100 damage a round capped sack of health who'd drop to a focused assault.

Also note that alot of highlevel boss encounters and dungeons are practically impervious to non-positive damage sources for some reason, of which the feylock has an infinite supply. Doing Old Udos/Mount Baphomet/Paush, and a few other places without a feylock is borderline impossible, on behalf of the very, very heavy reliance on positive energy and situationally cold damage.

With alot of the utility being removed, feylocks landed in a peculiar spot. They no longer replace a mage, and they were made a notch more annoying to kill by the addition of Wounding Whispers. They still do have their very beneficial damage elements(primarily positive energy). But, they don't really offer any utility to a party anymore. The question, I suppose is how one would find a middleground.

Warlocks are making Ranged touch attacks. Dwarven Defenders are not. Warlocks can also choose to disable, apply a spell effect, or change their damage type. Dwarven Defenders are limited to the three plus whatever weapon has an essence on that time, limiting versatility. 18 DD levels is a lot and is going to restrict what is going on with those other 12.

I think that's the main strength of the warlock, unlimited spells supplying versatility in tactics without exceling, while not being better than those who sacrifice versatility to be better at those tactics. The way they were before, they had great versatility and nearly matched, matched, or exceeded those who had such tactics. That was too much in my opinion.

As is, what warlocks are now balance wise is a lot better than what they were yesterday. The update isn't perfect, but its a lot better in my opinion.

Lastly, despite these events from the past, it's the stigma of a cute fairy is going to keep feylocks from having the same stigma as abyssal and infernals. Heck, even those have gotten away without having much suspicion sometimes. But I think that's how its going to be, thus why their suspicion/distrust isn't something to be taken view of in balance, when it isn't much of a thing.

[One Two Three Five]

I'd be all for 10/- DR if it was on a sorc chassis. Sorcs need to class out of sorc to get discipline, tumble, stealth, UMD..

[Clive Ashwood]

If people think Feylock is somehow weak now they dont understand how powerful wounding whispers is on an infinite caster. The pve abilities of this class may have taken a hit, but if anything they are even stronger in pvp now. If the point of the update was to scale back their pvp ability, then it likely achieved completely the opposite effect.

[Lorkas]

They're stronger in PvP against classes that need to hit them in melee and can't cast silence, perhaps.

The biggest thing though is that now they have to choose between trying to dispel/debuff or deal good damage. The fact that they used to be able to strip all your buffs while dealing damage means that they're taking almost twice as long to do the same stuff they were doing before, which is a huge nerf for PvP in a game where PvP battles are often decided in seconds.

[milosr]

Hold on, hold on...are there people on this thread who are actually saying that its totally cool that warlocks should have same DR as a DD?

...let me tell you something as a DD player, you warlocks are a bunch of spoiled snugglebears is what you are, that Dwarven Defender DR is bought with tears and blood, and Warlocks get that DR like an icing on the cake. I will say no more on this, before I inevitably start cursing.

But yeah having had a very high level feylock before this patch, i can agree that they were basically buff/fluff bots with dispel, and the only thing that made them remotely useful to the party was mass haste/imp invis, otherwise they were just...meh (since in most cases you were unable to RP the enchantment spells properly) .

Infernal locks are still OP as heck from what I see, but hey, atleast they don't have silly DR anymore, wooo!...I have no idea why feylocks were nerfed to such an extent and regular locks were given a wink and a nod.

Oh and yeah...you are looking at it the wrong anyway, you got laz0rs now!...so its fair.

[One Two Three Five]

they were just...meh

How, uh, how, how uh. How did you build your feylock, buddy?

[AllTheWorld]

I think originally my concerns were about the haste and damage on spells. Haste got resolved with a nice compromise. Now that I've played around a little, I think my concerns are:

- Hold Person/Monster now come so late that by the time you get them, it sort of makes Hold Person redundant.
- Charm Person/Monster are more or less useless at the levels you get them. I'd suggest that we swap Hold Person to where Charm Monster. That way it is at least relevant at a level where you'd use it.
- Losing Improved Invisibility is frustrating, since both types of Warlock now have Invisibility.
- We seem to be forced into a situation where we can either use a damage spell, or use an effect spell. The problem is the range of some of these spells. Daze is great because it fires off at a longer distance. Gust of Wind is short enough that you'll almost always get hit by it yourself.

[Peppermint]

WARLOCKS WERE NEVER SUPPOSED TO BE TRUSTED. THERE IS NO GOOD WARLOCK, THE CLOSEST IS ONE STRUGGLING TO SIMPLY BE NEUTRAL AND THAT IS ON BOTH FEY AND DEVIL/FIEND.

When it got to warm and fuzzy reactions to warlock/feylocks DM's called down heavenly(or fey...ly) hammers and reminded EVERYONE in a number of WORLD EVENTS that even a feylock isn't to be trusted completely.

THIS is where balance should be played with, not the abilities/spells

Warlocks are accepted, if not downright lauded in the underdark.

You can't balance a class around "RP". Just doesn't work.

That said, I agree with the OP that removing Improved Invisibility and replacing it with Displacement perhaps doesn't accomplish as much as it should (since warlocks are infinite casters). If anything, it's arguably a buff, since Displacement can't be breached or purged. However, it's remarkably annoying in practice!

[One Two Three Five]

Not sure if balance-by-annoyance is a good call? Maybe keep displacement but give them imp invis with the same rules as their haste?

[Liareth]

already made my point that they aren't as strong as you believe they are. I used to try to do a solo dungeon that was simply MY level and wouldn't be able to solo it where a wizard, cleric, WM,or fighter/rogue would easily do it.

Class strength isn't defined solely by how well you can solo a dungeon. But on that note, I think you must be doing something terribly wrong. Here is a list of mid-end game dungeon mobs you can hold off the top of my head:

- Pretty much every single dungeon with a humanoid in it pre-15.
- All the mobs in the Forest of Despair.
- Almost all the mobs at the slime temple.
- All the giants at deep giants.
- All the mobs at Blackfin Rock.
- Almost all the mobs at Kohlingden.
- Almost all the mobs at the Aurilite temple.
- All the giants at Red Dragon Isle.
- All the giants in the Path of the Titans in the Lowerdark.

A held mob means a dead mob. These dungeons feylocks -trivialize-. Even now, after the nerfs to feylocks. Sure, when you're soloing that dungeon it might take you an age to kill the mobs you've held, but that doesn't make you any less powerful.

The biggest nerf here is to their PvE and PvP utility, because now they can't confer free haste to their entire party, which was a pretty overpowered ability. Feylock is still strong. Just less strong.

[a1b2]

Warlocks are accepted, if not downright lauded in the underdark.

You can't balance a class around "RP". Just doesn't work.

Want to bet? UD is where the monsters go. this is why drow are overpowered. RP wise they are supposed to be. They are the threat, they are the evil that good HAS to combine to defeat. It is also why there is so much drow lore that is required to play a drow lest you get shunned/hunted by the ruling drow houses. This is why the only time in my memory that the drow did NOT rule the underdark was when a simple kobold RP'ed the crap out of his character and ended becoming one of the most feared characters/players on the server. Vippin was amazing and it wasn't even because of his class build or abilities. it was almost all pure RP.

Any DM can do a server wide event/quest that shines a negative light/gives rp disadvantage to any race or class and you will find that race is played less because of it. After the feylock event reminded everyone, warlock and non-warlock, that the fey packed warlocks are still ruled by a chaotic being that will only cause trouble in the end for everyone, warlock players ether went to the UD and struggled to find a life there or simply were retired/taken a break from playing/ or went into hiding for ONLY the reason that their rp made it clear that they were indeed monsters no matter how pretty their mask was. It didn't matter that back then feylocks could heal themselves WHILE damaging their foes AND giving imp invisibility AND giving haste to themselves and their party. No one wanted to party with them because they were reminded of the monster behind the mask with purely rp quest methods.

maybe its time for the DM's to remind the server that evil is alive on arelith and they are powerful, so if good doesn't combine their powers evil will punish them. And remind evil that good will win out as long as they are willing to work together, despite their differences, for the greater good and sacrifice everything for others while evil turns on itself with selfish goals and can only barely control others through power and fear. (There's a reason the good vs evil tropes are so prevalent in D&D. They work to balance each other and the worlds their stories are about.)