Feylock Feedback

An area to facilitate free-form feedback on systems (in-game or out) related to Arelith.

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Peppermint
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Re: Feylock Feedback

Post by Peppermint » Tue Jun 20, 2017 12:24 pm

If you do, please go ahead and modify the code I wrote as a workaround, and just have the CL set properly automatically.

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susitsu
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Re: Feylock Feedback

Post by susitsu » Tue Jun 20, 2017 3:04 pm

Wew. That sounds awesome. Honestly, all the currently proposed changes are making me want to play a feylock. They're starting to look even funner than they did before. Can't wait for everything to be finalized, SM.

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Wytchee
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Re: Feylock Feedback

Post by Wytchee » Tue Jun 20, 2017 3:32 pm

RamblerTeo wrote:
Wytchee wrote: Also, fey-pact warlock AC isn't bad at all. It can hit the mid-40s. With SS it hits near 50.

that's bad, no joke. most builds get mid 40s AB.
Yeah, I'm not really talking about PvP here; if you're within melee range as a feypact warlock in PvP you're playing the class wrong. 50 AC and 50% concealment is more than sufficient for 95% of PvE encounters. It's not going to make everything in epic dungeons have to roll a 20 to hit you, but neither is it in any way bad.
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One Two Three Five
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Re: Feylock Feedback

Post by One Two Three Five » Tue Jun 20, 2017 3:33 pm

Better than rogues!
The devil does not need any more advocates
Clerics are just socially acceptable warlocks.

Umskiptar
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Re: Feylock Feedback

Post by Umskiptar » Tue Jun 20, 2017 4:52 pm

One Two Three Five wrote:Better than rogues!
Rogues get low 60s AC with edodge on top.

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One Two Three Five
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Re: Feylock Feedback

Post by One Two Three Five » Tue Jun 20, 2017 4:52 pm

I must've been gone for too long. How and for how long?
The devil does not need any more advocates
Clerics are just socially acceptable warlocks.

Umskiptar
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Re: Feylock Feedback

Post by Umskiptar » Tue Jun 20, 2017 4:54 pm

One Two Three Five wrote:I must've been gone for too long. How and for how long?
It's around the number I recall from playing my kobold rogue. 24/6. You can be a solid tank even in PvP, but that AB is going to suck too much.

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Hunter548
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Re: Feylock Feedback

Post by Hunter548 » Tue Jun 20, 2017 5:06 pm

One Two Three Five wrote:I must've been gone for too long. How and for how long?
10 base, 6 tumble, 3 from enchanted fine silk shirt, 6 from an adamantine large shield with the fighter level 5 bonus, 14 dex mod, 1 on boots, 3 from adamantine helmet, 4 barkskin wand, 4 haste, 10 from IE; Puts you right at 61. You can eck out a couple more points via being lucky with artifacts, not caring about the tower shield skill penalty, or other various mage consumables, though obviously you'll drop to mid 30s AB max in IE.
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One Two Three Five
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Re: Feylock Feedback

Post by One Two Three Five » Tue Jun 20, 2017 5:13 pm

Right, okay, but how? 24 rogue/6 fighter, dex? 10 base, 6 tumble, 15 dex mod (I guess.), 3 enchanted fine silk, 3 addy helmet, 4 from a barkskin wand, one from mage armor, 4 from haste... Am I missing anything? That's 46, I think? 42 after that haste wand burns down.

What am I missing? An addy large shield would add 5 for 51, IE lets you hit 61. For as long as that haste holds up. Add another 2 (48/44, 51/53, 61/63 for all calcs) for armor skin.

HAHA hunter got it right as I finished
The devil does not need any more advocates
Clerics are just socially acceptable warlocks.

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Baron Saturday
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Re: Feylock Feedback

Post by Baron Saturday » Tue Jun 20, 2017 7:16 pm

I'm just going to avoid the whole question of feylock AC tanking viability and ask instead...

If feylocks start getting spells that are only accessible via the special abilities radial menu, could they get a text notification informing them when they do? You know, for people who don't obsessively follow every forum thread and might not even think to look in the special abilities menu?
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susitsu
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Re: Feylock Feedback

Post by susitsu » Tue Jun 20, 2017 11:10 pm

I might sound insane for this, but can we give warlocks the ability to take divine shield?

(Don't lynch me.)

JediMindTrix
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Re: Feylock Feedback

Post by JediMindTrix » Tue Jun 20, 2017 11:13 pm

susitsu wrote:I might sound insane for this, but can we give warlocks the ability to take divine shield?

(Don't lynch me.)
That'd also be giving them the ability to Turn Undead. There is no way to give them Divine Shield without also giving them Turn Undead.

Rwby
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Re: Feylock Feedback

Post by Rwby » Tue Jun 20, 2017 11:27 pm

susitsu wrote:I might sound insane for this, but can we give warlocks the ability to take divine shield?

(Don't lynch me.)
Why?
There's nothing Divine about them at all? What's the thematic hook or reasoning here?

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Mr_Rieper
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Re: Feylock Feedback

Post by Mr_Rieper » Tue Jun 20, 2017 11:31 pm

susitsu wrote:I might sound insane for this, but can we give warlocks the ability to take divine shield?

(Don't lynch me.)

Image

It's you or me, bro. You crossed a line here.
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susitsu
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Re: Feylock Feedback

Post by susitsu » Wed Jun 21, 2017 2:07 am

Are blackguards of The Abyss and Hell not divine? Ive always thought of Eldritch Energy itself as a combination between the unholy but 'divine' powers of these dark places, and they're absolutely teeming with it unlike a blackguard even.

That is to answer the question of thematics.

The thought was to remove the need for a BG dip and potentially make the option of a charisma warlock a little stronger.

As for you, Rieper...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ndJzfOCtd8

Lets do this.

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One Two Three Five
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Re: Feylock Feedback

Post by One Two Three Five » Wed Jun 21, 2017 2:10 am

That's. An interesting perspective. Warlocks do, technically, get their abilities from a 'higher power,' but DnD has always defined them as absolutely arcane. (There's even later-edition confirmation that basically anything with a connection to hell can give a warlock pact: There's a canon warlock patron that's just a half-devil. Doesn't even have the powers he's dispensing. So maybe it's not.. cleric-y. Who knows!)

But an Arelith warlock could, theoretically, make a blackguard pact with their warlock entity, right? Blackguard abilities are divine... So what in the heck.
The devil does not need any more advocates
Clerics are just socially acceptable warlocks.

a1b2
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Re: Feylock Feedback

Post by a1b2 » Wed Jun 21, 2017 4:00 am

Scholar Midnight wrote: - Removing invisibility for fiendlocks (why was that a thing? It doesn't really make sense given the class design).
NOOO :( invis is for placement before you attack it is almost purely pve as pvp most all will have see invis so it will be useless. Fiends have see invis so it makes MORE sense for them to have it.

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Hunter548
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Re: Feylock Feedback

Post by Hunter548 » Wed Jun 21, 2017 4:27 am

Fiends have sea invis purely because I suggested it to Mith when he was reworking the class because I thought the symmetry was neat.

Fiends really don't need and shouldn't have invis.
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a1b2
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Re: Feylock Feedback

Post by a1b2 » Wed Jun 21, 2017 2:42 pm

all this fey improvement/changes. Meanwhile the fiend/devil warlock is still stuck with the main "feature summons" being limited and making their use even less.

At least they can still pretend to be 1 or 2 stat buff bots and protection from evil dispensers. I wished their spells would be able to benefit themselves/their summons more since the summons only works in mid difficulty dungeons anymore. That and the war cry is still a ridiculous spell to have. Give us something like shadow shield that we can put on ourselves and our summons only at least. Personally i'd like to be able to offer another party buff instead as its usefulness is extremely limited as it ONLY helps your summons at a point when they don't really need the minor bonus's it offers. offering keen edge or GMW (though i'm not sure how useful to a summons GMW would be... but it would fit better then war cry or the never ever used bestow curse spell.) Or maybe swap one of those with negative energy protection. It's a common potion so wouldn't be buffing them very much and is something they can offer to party members and summons alike....

Umskiptar
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Re: Feylock Feedback

Post by Umskiptar » Wed Jun 21, 2017 2:58 pm

a1b2 wrote:all this fey improvement/changes. Meanwhile the fiend/devil warlock is still stuck with the main "feature summons" being limited and making their use even less.
What are you even talking about? Fiendish Warlocks are amazing, together with their summons. This "nerf" barely hurt them. Hell, they were almost getting away with Invisibility too.

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Seekeepeek
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Re: Feylock Feedback

Post by Seekeepeek » Wed Jun 21, 2017 3:01 pm

i play a warlock with gift of humility... and i can't see abyssal/infernal warlocks being weak.. i could watch tv-series while hunting on it (i did that a few times...while soloing) considering Darkness made everything just stand there waiting to die by blast or summon. so just use darkness with care and point it wisely at your foe.. don't make it overlap. i wish they'd remove darkness from warlocks. unlimited darkness is just to strong on Arelith.

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Hunter548
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Re: Feylock Feedback

Post by Hunter548 » Wed Jun 21, 2017 3:41 pm

a1b2 wrote:all this fey improvement/changes. Meanwhile the fiend/devil warlock is still stuck with the main "feature summons" being limited and making their use even less.

At least they can still pretend to be 1 or 2 stat buff bots and protection from evil dispensers. I wished their spells would be able to benefit themselves/their summons more since the summons only works in mid difficulty dungeons anymore. That and the war cry is still a ridiculous spell to have. Give us something like shadow shield that we can put on ourselves and our summons only at least. Personally i'd like to be able to offer another party buff instead as its usefulness is extremely limited as it ONLY helps your summons at a point when they don't really need the minor bonus's it offers. offering keen edge or GMW (though i'm not sure how useful to a summons GMW would be... but it would fit better then war cry or the never ever used bestow curse spell.) Or maybe swap one of those with negative energy protection. It's a common potion so wouldn't be buffing them very much and is something they can offer to party members and summons alike....
I'm gonna be honest, from this and past posts it really just sounds like you're playing badly.

War Cry is awesome. Cast it before your summon wades into melee. Warlock Summons are very good, too, I dunno where you get the idea that they suck from unless you're actively letting them die.
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Liareth
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Re: Feylock Feedback

Post by Liareth » Wed Jun 21, 2017 10:34 pm

viewtopic.php?f=23&t=25&p=104800#p104800

It's possible there might be one or two more minor changes to the class, particularly I want to add the doppleganger I described a few pages back. For now it should do, though.

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One Two Three Five
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Re: Feylock Feedback

Post by One Two Three Five » Wed Jun 21, 2017 11:04 pm

Looks great! Does illusion spell focus apply to shadow strength?
The devil does not need any more advocates
Clerics are just socially acceptable warlocks.

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AllTheWorld
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Re: Feylock Feedback

Post by AllTheWorld » Thu Jun 22, 2017 2:00 am

Scholar Midnight wrote:viewtopic.php?f=23&t=25&p=104800#p104800

It's possible there might be one or two more minor changes to the class, particularly I want to add the doppleganger I described a few pages back. For now it should do, though.
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