Deep Imaskari are not evil Underdarkers, but are treated like they are.

[CptJonas]

They're not evil Underdarkers (for the most part) but they are from the Underdark. That's enough to instill fear in most NPCs, I think. The Underdark is a hostile place and being from there should arouse suspicion.

I play one and I'm not bothered by the restriction. Even if they're not malicious they're alien and weird, probably unsettling and untrusted to Laurick and other NPCs. It adds to the exoticness, they are aliens on unfamiliar turf. As a tradeoff they have full access to Anundor and the Underdark. I can see it being annoying if they base themselves in Cordor and want to quickly travel to Brog or Sibiyad a lot but even then, running to the Arcane Tower and teleporting isn't so bad and again, they are visitors from a hostile land.

At the same time if one or more Deep Imaskari is to achieve a level of fame and trust on the surface it might be nice to see more access open up. Earning it through RP, I mean.

I moustly agree with you....
But....you must understand....nearly all off NPC service is mechanical service...not as much RP one...
And it makes sense for new guy to be look treated like that...but what if you start to work on surface, make a little off name for yourself...from that point it doesnt make sense..And they will not change NPC behavior/mechanics for one person. So its good to set it right, and let it on RP of that character and other PCs to decide....

Btw...They are locked on Greater reward, and mechanical weak...so it wouldnt affect so much players (like 7-10 at max )

[Brandon Steel]

Don’t really understand a few of the points for being against it here really, they’re basically human deep gnomes only even rarer, meaning even less people know anything about them. I can understand some fear of them as it is with most unknown things, but having support for tieflings and not them really makes no sense to me.

[Lunargent]

Deep Imaskari are not evil. Period. Deep gnomes, tieflings, RDDs and other 5%s are able to use these NPC services just fine, so if Laurick can look a literal demonspawn or half-dragon in the face and ferry them places, I don't see why they wouldn't help someone who is just a gray human.

[Freyason]

To be quite frank, the entire arguement sort of seems to come across as "I want to play an underdark human who is not an outcast, but enjoys the mechanical benefits of being an outcast with none of the penalties."

Deep Imaskari are half elf base race. They most definitely don't enjoy the mechanical benefits of outcast humans.

[Infinite Solutions]

Deep gnomes are actually not able to use Laurick. Tieflings probably shouldn't. RDD, I have no idea what to say.

If the change was made to allow them to use Laurick and other surface services I'd not complain, but like I said as a player of a DI I'm okay with their being treated as aliens. Most DI are going to be wizards anyway so -teleport access is probably going to be likely.

[flower]

That race is no innately evil does not mean tha can nd should have open access everywhere. They are outsiders on surface (And in most ud settlements probably too).

Having neutral or good alignment for the race is not a reason to get different treatment. The main thing should be if they are recognized as non classic human and if yes then there is not a single reason for surface humans to trust them.

If alignment was deciding factor then Laurick would check alignment of character not race.

[flower]

I actually think discussing if the Deep Imaskari should be treated as underdarkers or not can be harmful as it can unintentionally set an OoC standard on how to react to them.

I'd much rather see the deep Imaskari create their own reputation, as majority of characters wouldn't know what those pale freaks are that keep emerging from the cracks of the earth to ask stupid questions.

The issue, and my point here, is that they face greater difficulties in setting any reputation other than being Underdarkers due to the mechanics preventing them from doing so.

Mechanical difficulties are interesting challenge and belong to the races. If someone is bothered by challenges like that and cannot adapt (actually these issues with Laurick are easily bypassed) then perhaps let them play something else.

[sad_zav]

tieflings were just cited as an argument against this

tails, horns, weird skin colors

meanwhile imaskari just have the weird skin color

there's "interesting challenges" and there's "why is this a thing?"

[Xarge VI]

I'd say more than because of alignment they shouldn't have access to all the surface things, simply because they don't belong there.
The very sky and sea are concepts only known to them from books and myths and that would show.

Having Deep Imaskari do writs, use Cordor-Brog express line etc. on the surface isn't something I'd personally like to see as it would eat away what's special about them.

[Zed]

I believe the issue is that If a tiefling is able to take a boat from cordor. But a natural underdark slave is not. But a surfacer that has been made a slave can. There is an issue


If laurick did not want to take "Strange races" On his boat, he would not accept tieflings.


So basically. As Deep Imaskari /WILL/ make their way to the surface because it is in their nature to do so. Then either disallow weird races all together from using the surface (Tieflings, Orcs, Imaskari, Fey, etc...) ENTIRELY.

Or have a consistent lore.

I am of the opinion that it is oversight. But i do believe that If a Tiefling can use a boat and grab writs, then an Imaskari (Consider everything you LOSE to become an Imaskari over a normal human) should be able to do the same. Reasonably.

Even if they do start in the underdark.


The issue comes from a mechanical oversight. For example (as stated above) If you create a slave human, when you go to the surface you are not allowed to use the boats/writs/ etc... because mechanically you started in the underdark, this is not supported by any lore.

however! If you are a surfacer, and you become a slave, and go to the surface. you are allowed to use boats/writs etc...

These things are clear mechanical oversights.

As well. Tieflings are not given a second look when they enter a town, but an Imaskari that requires a lore check of atleast 60 (Due to my own testing) in order for players to actually identify them as anything other than non human, i find it rather strange that some random peasant, guard, or boatcaptain (No matter how omnicient he is) Would be able to identify a Deep Imaskari.


THat being said I do think Imaskari should be garnering looks and strange glances because of their behavior, not their race. But that still should not bar them from the surface because there is no Lore evidence to back that anyone would dislike them for any reason.

The only race of humans that would have issue are in the south east regions of faerun. and even that would be a hard sell considering they were slaves of the imaskari empire over 5300 years prior to todays events minimum


And in regards to this:

I'd say more than because of alignment they shouldn't have access to all the surface things, simply because they don't belong there.
The very sky and sea are concepts only known to them from books and myths and that would show.

Having Deep Imaskari do writs, use Cordor-Brog express line etc. on the surface isn't something I'd personally like to see as it would eat away what's special about them.

Preserving their secret realm from the outside world, Deep Imaskari are used to avoiding contact with other races. The Deep Imaskari encountered exploring outside their known bounds of Deep Imaskar are more excited about meeting other races, although they eye humans from Unther or Mulhorand suspiciously.

[Infinite Solutions]

I just figure Laurick's racism is as random and illogical as my dad's.

[Anime Sword Fighter]

I just figure Laurick's racism is as random and illogical as my dad's.

this killed me lmao

On the topic of DI not fitting into either place, how likely/fitting would a neutral settlement be in the UD? Is the population big enough for that yet? Or should a monstrous explicit one be priority if this was going to happen.

I'd also like to see a low-level UD parallel to Skal become a thing, with some sort of opportunity for interaction with Skal peeps to occur- maybe this would be too much a headache though, considering the trials and tribulations we go through trying to establish the surface/UD dynamic the server strives for.

[flower]

If Imaskari has freedom of a surface character it ceases to exist in its boundaries of isolationist UD race.

You pay award for being allowed to play a unique role play and this simple belongs to it. Not for being just another human with full access above and below on server. With all restrictions gone, players of Imaskaries will tend to play like ordinary humans lurking all over. Difficulties like Lauric and rest are a constantly reminding that They do not belong to surface, that They are a mere visitors and adventurers there.


Imho there is no point to keep lenghty discussions over aligment and if Laurick likes them or not. Besides these restrictions are rather trivial in general.

[Ork]

I don't know why you're fervently arguing against this idea since ultimately the decision rests with the dev team. This races' access to the boats does not affect anyone besides the imaskari players themselves.

[CptJonas]

If Imaskari has freedom of a surface character it ceases to exist in its boundaries of isolationist UD race.

You pay award for being allowed to play a unique role play and this simple belongs to it. Not for being just another human with full access above and below on server. With all restrictions gone, players of Imaskaries will tend to play like ordinary humans lurking all over. Difficulties like Lauric and rest are a constantly reminding that They do not belong to surface, that They are a mere visitors and adventurers there.


Imho there is no point to keep lenghty discussions over aligment and if Laurick likes them or not. Besides these restrictions are rather trivial in general.

I just wanted to point out this..." They do not belong to surface, that They are a mere visitors and adventurers there."...Do you realize they once all lived on surface...and in oficial lore, nearly half off immaskari population leaved underdark and started big city on surface (right after spell plague...).......??

[Zed]

DI coming to the surface starting 1372 is supported by,lore. Durring this age they begin opening the seal and start trickling out then after the spellplague they establish a surface city.


Yes. They come from the underdark. No. They are not treated like any othee underdark race in lore.