[class] Assassin, and "Assassins" Class and mechanic

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White_935
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[class] Assassin, and "Assassins" Class and mechanic

Post by White_935 » Thu Oct 11, 2018 5:57 pm

Greeting!

I would love to pick up a discussion around the assassin class.
As you know currently to be approved to become an assassin, one has to confirm the ability to assassinate individuals.
But are all in DnD whom are classed into assassin, actual assassins?

I know Drow fighters often multiclass into assassin as per dnd.
But Drow fighters aren't necessary assassins beyond occasionally doing ambushes if their matron commands, but it not related to the actual class in such a matter... instead they tend to use spellcasting and poison regularly to boost up their fighting capabilities.

There are also other type of fighters whom does the same, while focused on the ability to attack and eliminate a opponent, it usually isn't related to actually being a assassin.. be it a agent of vengeance or likewise.

Perhaps to allow the class to see more usage, it would be possible to shift the actual approve requirement (and the ability to declare a 24h hunting period) being instead attached to joining the assassin guild.. while unlocking the class itself to those that it makes sense to ?

it is not in particularly a overpowering class, but would suit several play styles and activities in general.

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Durvayas
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Re: [class] Assassin, and "Assassins" Class and mechanic

Post by Durvayas » Thu Oct 11, 2018 7:04 pm

As someone who has an assassin, I can tell you, the class you are looking for mechanically, is rogue.

There is nothing you can do as an assassin that you can't do better as a rogue.
I'll say it again; There is nothing you can do as an assassin that you can't do better as a rogue.

This is especially true with the new rogue bonuses.

As for opening the class up to anyone? The vetting process to become an assassin is already considered to be a bit of a joke.

Are you basically asking for people to be allowed to waive actually being an assassin's guild assassin in favor of being ANY other class with the ability to do hostile RP and then and PvP(without warning) someone within 24 hours of doing so?

White_935
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Re: [class] Assassin, and "Assassins" Class and mechanic

Post by White_935 » Thu Oct 11, 2018 7:13 pm

Durvayas wrote:
Thu Oct 11, 2018 7:04 pm
As someone who has an assassin, I can tell you, the class you are looking for mechanically, is rogue.

There is nothing you can do as an assassin that you can't do better as a rogue.
I'll say it again; There is nothing you can do as an assassin that you can't do better as a rogue.

This is especially true with the new rogue bonuses.

As for opening the class up to anyone? The vetting process to become an assassin is already considered to be a bit of a joke.

Are you basically asking for people to be allowed to waive actually being an assassin's guild assassin in favor of being ANY other class with the ability to do hostile RP and then and PvP(without warning) someone within 24 hours of doing so?
No, i'm more or less asking for that the vetting is to join the guild of assassins, not taking the class itself.
Joining the guild allows for the mechanics around 24 hours.

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Durvayas
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Re: [class] Assassin, and "Assassins" Class and mechanic

Post by Durvayas » Thu Oct 11, 2018 7:48 pm

Then there's no need for discussion.

That change would ensure that there ARE no more characters with assassin levels generated after that point. The only real allure of taking the class is what the class allows you to do(you certainly don't take it for the guildhall). If you allowed players to be assassins without taking the class, no one would.

We'd be right back to 30 wizard assassins(stronger than the problematic 27/3 build that previously was a problem and the 25/5 build allowed today) and 20/7/3(currently limited to 18/7/5) WM assassins as the norm overnight, which was changed for a reason.

Thats not even mentioning how badly it would be abused. Currently the main thing that keeps the problem PvPer crowd from playing assassins with the 24 hour hunting rule is the fact that they'd have to actually play assassin builds.

White_935
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Re: [class] Assassin, and "Assassins" Class and mechanic

Post by White_935 » Thu Oct 11, 2018 8:09 pm

Durvayas wrote:
Thu Oct 11, 2018 7:48 pm
Then there's no need for discussion.

That change would ensure that there ARE no more characters with assassin levels generated after that point. The only real allure of taking the class is what the class allows you to do(you certainly don't take it for the guildhall). If you allowed players to be assassins without taking the class, no one would.

We'd be right back to 30 wizard assassins(stronger than the problematic 27/3 build that previously was a problem and the 25/5 build allowed today) and 20/7/3(currently limited to 18/7/5) WM assassins as the norm overnight, which was changed for a reason.

Thats not even mentioning how badly it would be abused. Currently the main thing that keeps the problem PvPer crowd from playing assassins with the 24 hour hunting rule is the fact that they'd have to actually play assassin builds.
Ah, i didn't know it was such a big issue..
In the end i wished to build for roleplay.. making a Drow fighter/assassin, power and pvp aside, i'd stick with what makes sense for a character.

But i suppose there are other considerations as you mention to take into consideration... i wasn't aware it was such a subject to abuse.

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Durvayas
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Re: [class] Assassin, and "Assassins" Class and mechanic

Post by Durvayas » Thu Oct 11, 2018 9:35 pm

You absolutely can build a drow fighter/assassin. Easily. I'm not sure how great it'll be, that'd depend largely on how much assassin you take, whether or not you'd be a dex or str build, etc.

I'm sure the building and mechanics oriented area of the server can help you figure out how to build an at least somewhat affective assassin per your desires and specifications for theme. But the system as it stands, needs 5 lvls of assassin to be part of the guild, as well as a message to the DMs. I think the soonest you could take levels would be... lvl 7?(after 6 ftr lvls)

White_935
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Re: [class] Assassin, and "Assassins" Class and mechanic

Post by White_935 » Fri Oct 12, 2018 7:15 am

Durvayas wrote:
Thu Oct 11, 2018 9:35 pm
You absolutely can build a drow fighter/assassin. Easily. I'm not sure how great it'll be, that'd depend largely on how much assassin you take, whether or not you'd be a dex or str build, etc.

I'm sure the building and mechanics oriented area of the server can help you figure out how to build an at least somewhat affective assassin per your desires and specifications for theme. But the system as it stands, needs 5 lvls of assassin to be part of the guild, as well as a message to the DMs. I think the soonest you could take levels would be... lvl 7?(after 6 ftr lvls)
Ah but here you are mentioning a message to the DMs to be part of the guild, but I want the class but not the membership to the guild.
Is it not the class that requires DM permission ?

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Blood on my Lips
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Re: [class] Assassin, and "Assassins" Class and mechanic

Post by Blood on my Lips » Fri Oct 12, 2018 7:52 am

White_935 wrote:
Fri Oct 12, 2018 7:15 am

Ah but here you are mentioning a message to the DMs to be part of the guild, but I want the class but not the membership to the guild.
Is it not the class that requires DM permission ?
You need a Prestige Class Token to take assassin levels, and that is obtained by making an application to the DM staff. You need their approval to take assassin levels.
Token Process

In addition to the mechanical requirements, players will also need DM approval. To apply for a Prestige Class token, please contact DMs on the forums, via PM to Active DM's. Please have the character already created and being presently played.

You must be capable to demonstrating an ability and intent to form a constructive story from the mechanical benefits. A sample assassination will be asked for along with the usual background. If your concept does not bring fun to both parties involved, it will be denied. Be ever mindful of the to-be-murdered.

A RP Rating of 20 is required.
http://wiki.arelith.com/Assassin

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Rooshi49
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Re: [class] Assassin, and "Assassins" Class and mechanic

Post by Rooshi49 » Sat Oct 13, 2018 3:02 pm

I do agree that there needs to be some discussion on assassins as a whole, not necessarily how the class mechanically functions though. I'm more or less concerned about the incentives system and how the hits on people's heads are handled mechanically.

So essentially, when you get a hit placed on your head as a player, (as far as I know) you get a message in your chatbox when you log in saying that a message has been delivered to you that you've had a hit placed on your head. Which is... WHAT? Why would any decent assassins guild let the person know they're going to die so that they can come and pay off the bounty. The assassins guild is supposed to honor the contract placed by the customer, not let the victim an out. Most players when they get this message, just meta the fact that they're character automatically knows the instant they have a bounty on their head to go and pay it off.

Which leads to the other problem with the assassins guild as far as I know. When someone pays off the bounty it doesn't go to any assassins in the guild. It just disappears. IMO it should go into some sort of account where it can be used by the members of the assassin's guild. Or the option to pay off the bounty should be outright removed.

Also, with the minimum of 10,000 gold to place on person's head. Noone . . . noone is going to take that up. Being discovered as an assassin and risking your life, taking all the work to track someone down and kill them. For a measly 10k is not worth it.

This may be the wrong kind of place to put this post since, I think this mostly a discussion about the class mechanics. But I thought I'd throw it out there.

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Durvayas
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Re: [class] Assassin, and "Assassins" Class and mechanic

Post by Durvayas » Sat Oct 13, 2018 5:16 pm

This is technically the wrong place, but the OPs concerns have already been addressed.

Its not meta to know you have a bounty. A glowing lantern archon appears and lets your PC know the moment a bounty is placed on your head. If you are offline when it happens, you get the message in your chatlog, as your PC would have recieved the glowing light earlier.

I agree 10000 is too low. I think it should be 30k minimum. Taking out a lvl 30 is going to cost, at minimum(unless you have a gank squad on call), about 20k or more in scrolls and wands, so the profit margin is really not there right now. Many contracts would have to be completed at a loss, and thats just not going to happen.

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