About That Enchanting Suggestion

An area to facilitate free-form feedback on systems (in-game or out) related to Arelith.

Moderator: Forum Moderators

User avatar
RedGiant
Posts: 777
Joined: Fri Sep 12, 2014 1:39 am
Location: West of Babylon

Re: About That Enchanting Suggestion

Post by RedGiant » Thu Jul 12, 2018 4:55 am

There are also some very practical perks to be added in tiers as modeled in other schools.

How about this?

Greater Enchantment:
Hold Animal/Person/Monster + Charm Spells duration increased 50%
Dominate Animal/Person/Monster lasts turns per level

Epic Enchantment:
Hold Animal/Person/Monster + Charm Spells duration increased 100%
Dominate Animal/Person/Monster lasts hours per level

These would increase combat efficacy and the duration increase also multiplies a variety of RP scenarios, without being over-powered since it leaves in place the well-known (but mostly temporary or dispellable) counters that exist in game already.
"I felt he found my letters and read each one out loud"
Spaniardl wrote:So basically, after playin UD for a long time I started feeling like it is kind of depressing because 98% of the time im traveling very dark areas... .

User avatar
Versatile
Posts: 39
Joined: Wed Mar 28, 2018 3:40 am

Re: About That Enchanting Suggestion

Post by Versatile » Thu Jul 12, 2018 6:17 pm

The 'healthy %' have not actually said that they want the basin workings moved, they've said that they want the enchantment school to be better. A few have said they want the basin works to be removed and a few have said that they do not.

I understand that if you shift basin works to all casters that those who chose the enchantment school are not 'loosing' anything but gaining bonuses to the enchantment school. I'm also not arguing that we want the basin works 'all to ourselves'. What I am arguing is that when you are given certain mechanics to build with, and you build within them, when they are shifted out from under you....

For my own personal situation with an enchanter? Having her be able to control minds better makes zero rp sense for her. It just doesn't fit. I understand that is the school she picked but it isn't the mechanical reason why. The basin was. If when she was created, she would be able to use the basin no matter what, she would have most likely taken the craft scroll/potion/wand feats.

We make what we are trying to be based on the mechanics available. When they are shifted out from under us it feels flat out bad.

User avatar
Wytchee
Arelith Silver Supporter
Arelith Silver Supporter
Posts: 876
Joined: Fri Jun 16, 2017 8:37 pm

Re: About That Enchanting Suggestion

Post by Wytchee » Thu Jul 12, 2018 6:38 pm

I still really like the idea someone proposed (edit: BaronSaturday) of coupling the enchantment basin bonuses with the "craft" line of feats.

Craft Wand, Craft Potion and Scribe Scroll would all commit to the tier of enchantments one could create at the basin.

1 feat: +1 Skill, 33% Success with Runic, 10% Cost Reduction
2 feats: +2 Skills, 66% Success with Runic, 20% Cost Reduction
3 feats: 100% Success with Runic, 35% Cost Reduction

As the enchantment basin is so enmeshed with the fabric that is Arelith, however, I do believe current enchanters should either be grandfathered as they are or be provided with a rebuild/feat exchange; as this change would be so sweeping, however necessary.
Last edited by Wytchee on Thu Jul 12, 2018 7:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Current character: Abigail Duskwood

Aelryn Bloodmoon
Arelith Supporter
Arelith Supporter
Posts: 1171
Joined: Thu Sep 11, 2014 4:57 pm

Re: About That Enchanting Suggestion

Post by Aelryn Bloodmoon » Thu Jul 12, 2018 7:44 pm

Wytchee wrote:
Thu Jul 12, 2018 6:38 pm
I still really like the idea someone proposed of coupling the enchantment basin bonuses with the "craft" line of feats.

Craft Wand, Craft Potion and Scribe Scroll would all commit to the tier of enchantments one could create at the basin.

1 feat: +1 Skill, 33% Success with Runic, 10% Cost Reduction
2 feats: +2 Skills, 66% Success with Runic, 20% Cost Reduction
3 feats: 100% Success with Runic, 35% Cost Reduction

As the enchantment basin is so enmeshed with the fabric that is Arelith, however, I do believe current enchanters should either be grandfathered as they are or be provided with a rebuild/feat exchange; as this change would be so sweeping, however necessary.
I also really like this idea. For the "PnP" side of the argument, it fits best, and it gives access to all spell-casting classes. And I believe credit for this one goes to BaronSaturday.

I do have some reservations about a character with 4 bard levels enchanting as well as a level 25 caster, though. Perhaps make the epic focus gate caster level 21 instead of character level 21?

Versatile wrote:
Thu Jul 12, 2018 6:17 pm
...We make what we are trying to be based on the mechanics available. When they are shifted out from under us it feels flat out bad.

I believe this sentiment has been said many times before, but I believe this is a very elegant expression of things. Bad Things Happen to Good Adventurers, but Bad Things Happening to Players should be avoided or mitigated where possible, IMO.
Bane's tyranny is known throughout the continent, and his is the image most seen as the face of evil.
-Faiths and Pantheons (c)2002

User avatar
strong yeet
Posts: 98
Joined: Wed May 02, 2018 9:09 pm

Re: About That Enchanting Suggestion

Post by strong yeet » Thu Jul 12, 2018 9:54 pm

...We make what we are trying to be based on the mechanics available. When they are shifted out from under us it feels flat out bad.
Ideally this shouldn't happen. What I believe should be the case is something where those who took Enchantment don't feel slighted or robbed, because the new benefits (some mixture of flat buffs and RP cookies) to the feats/school "weigh" just as much as the benefits of the basin.

Even so, nothing's being shifted. You can still do your basin stuff. It's only that a lot more people can, too.
Basementfellow wrote:
Tue Sep 04, 2018 11:27 pm
well i do watch rick and mroty ahhaha

thingsicantdo
Posts: 99
Joined: Tue Apr 24, 2018 1:58 am

Re: About That Enchanting Suggestion

Post by thingsicantdo » Thu Jul 12, 2018 10:44 pm

Aelryn Bloodmoon wrote:
Thu Jul 12, 2018 7:44 pm

I do have some reservations about a character with 4 bard levels enchanting as well as a level 25 caster, though. Perhaps make the epic focus gate caster level 21 instead of character level 21?
seconded that there should be a caster level gate. also, i think the benefits should increase slightly to incentivize taking them on a non-wizard (few spare feats).

i'm also not opposed with merging it with the crafting system somehow, even if the feats are requirements for individual parts of something, and only having a complete kit after 21 caster levels. (and would propose a straight pullover, with cost equalling caster level, and maybe some modification with the DC and using the crafting system's method of calculating everything else)

Rwby
Posts: 915
Joined: Tue Nov 10, 2015 3:37 pm

Re: About That Enchanting Suggestion

Post by Rwby » Thu Jul 12, 2018 10:51 pm

Is it worth noting that Crafting and Enchanting basically serve one function, 'To Make Gear'. Only we expect enchanting to require at least 3 feats to be any good at it, but we don't require crafting to require any feats to be good at it?

thingsicantdo
Posts: 99
Joined: Tue Apr 24, 2018 1:58 am

Re: About That Enchanting Suggestion

Post by thingsicantdo » Thu Jul 12, 2018 10:55 pm

Rwby wrote:
Thu Jul 12, 2018 10:51 pm
Is it worth noting that Crafting and Enchanting basically serve one function, 'To Make Gear'. Only we expect enchanting to require at least 3 feats to be any good at it, but we don't require crafting to require any feats to be good at it?
it has a separate system with the crafting points. basically, i guess the idea was to limit creation of items. back then, there was an XP cost associated with enchanting, so you were limited by time one way, or time another, even if you had all the resources in the world

Rwby
Posts: 915
Joined: Tue Nov 10, 2015 3:37 pm

Re: About That Enchanting Suggestion

Post by Rwby » Thu Jul 12, 2018 10:57 pm

But we could do something similar with enchantment to decouple it from feats entirely, and thus from a school [or anything]. If we make it feat based, we're admitting that Wizards are better than Sorcerers at it, simply because they will always have more feats to burn.

User avatar
strong yeet
Posts: 98
Joined: Wed May 02, 2018 9:09 pm

Re: About That Enchanting Suggestion

Post by strong yeet » Thu Jul 12, 2018 11:01 pm

Rwby wrote:
Thu Jul 12, 2018 10:57 pm
If we make it feat based, we're admitting that Wizards are better than Sorcerers at it, simply because they will always have more feats to burn.
This is why I don't like the idea of "moving" the requirements to scribe/craft/brew. It doesn't fix anything, except retain wizard supremacy over item crafting (since they get Scribe for free, and all the bonus feats).

In fact, looking at it from a viewpoint of "only wizards can enchant without significant cost to feat choice" that proposed switch only makes the problem worse.
Basementfellow wrote:
Tue Sep 04, 2018 11:27 pm
well i do watch rick and mroty ahhaha

thingsicantdo
Posts: 99
Joined: Tue Apr 24, 2018 1:58 am

Re: About That Enchanting Suggestion

Post by thingsicantdo » Thu Jul 12, 2018 11:15 pm

Rwby wrote:
Thu Jul 12, 2018 10:57 pm
But we could do something similar with enchantment to decouple it from feats entirely, and thus from a school [or anything]. If we make it feat based, we're admitting that Wizards are better than Sorcerers at it, simply because they will always have more feats to burn.
but... wizards are better than sorcerers at it.

User avatar
Wytchee
Arelith Silver Supporter
Arelith Silver Supporter
Posts: 876
Joined: Fri Jun 16, 2017 8:37 pm

Re: About That Enchanting Suggestion

Post by Wytchee » Fri Jul 13, 2018 12:08 am

I'm convinced that a change is needed, but no change is gonna make everyone happy, and any change will infuriate some people.

At this point everything has been said. We've been going in circles for about five pages now, repeating the same things are nauseam.

It's pretty evident that enchantment needs a change, but I'm sure the dev team has something in mind, so whatevs.
Last edited by Wytchee on Fri Jul 13, 2018 12:09 am, edited 1 time in total.
Current character: Abigail Duskwood

JediMindTrix
Posts: 1199
Joined: Wed Feb 04, 2015 6:35 am

Re: About That Enchanting Suggestion

Post by JediMindTrix » Fri Jul 13, 2018 12:08 am

yea this discussion has run it's course

LemonBerry
Posts: 39
Joined: Fri Dec 01, 2017 7:49 pm
Location: Google documents

Re: About That Enchanting Suggestion

Post by LemonBerry » Sun Jul 29, 2018 1:29 am

To post from an enchanters perspective if not one of the current most well known and productive on the server and I'm posting so a dev reading it can simply have more information to go on that's less of a point and more or a open observation of what enchanting is currently.


I will start by saying that I do not encourage nor think ooc is the only way to forfill enchanting orders but it is the safest for everyone involved in the process. I personally try to keep enchanting as ic as I can but regardless at the least a confirmation tell is required.. especially when enchanting things worth 300k to people.

A lot of what we do with enchanting is unfortunately ooc and required because explaining how a +2 discipline +2 spellcraft +1 fort save +1 str +1 con +1 runed cha pair of gloves sounds in game looks a little like this..

"Umm can I have a pair of gloves that increase my overall martial discipline, ability to sense and understand spells with some resilience to standing against the wind from dragon wings and to enhance my strength endurance and sense of personality please... "

So some ooc needs to be done to conclude this and confirm that I'm not enchanting something completely misinterpretated.

As it stands enchanting is in a dangerous but comfortsbleplace if a select few do it they will get burned out from daily questions and requests.. but it's a lot better with the findable items. A lot of people can find roughly what they need or craft it and we have become fine tuners rather than mass items we usually do a few.

So i think the overall enchanting spread amongst characters has been done through crafting and we add a little extra which has taken a load off enchanter burnout and shrunk the necessity to find one past that final adjustment through the runic system.

If every mage does it your broadening ooc communication and removing a key identification and part of a character. That and my example above is only that precise if they know what they want. A lot of players dont know what's possible or what's best for them... thus more ooc

So i would be cautious is expanding ooc encouraging features to lots of people rather than isolated volunteers to perform this task for the server.

I can see arguments for both sides but it is a personality and almost a class defining roleplay tool if done right. it would be sad to remove such a distinguishing feature hmm.


Oh and if you have not heard of an enchanter or struggle finding them you should just ask anyone you meet if they know one... because 9/10 someone knows one.

Post Reply