Infernalist warlocks

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Void
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Infernalist warlocks

Post by Void » Sat Apr 21, 2018 10:48 pm

I've fed my infernalist warlock to the epic sacrific recently, few thoughts:

1. It would be great to have some more flexibility in spell selection. Basically, it looks like most of the time spell selection is pretty much set in stone, and any sort of customization starts happening around level 8..10, when spell slots start clashing. For example, I'd love to get another "animal spell" instead of bull strength at level 4.

2. It would be great to have some sort of in-game tool that displays which spells you can pick and at which level. Leveling up an infernalist required opening wiki every single time and checking which level unlocks which spell. I'm not sure if I overlooked something, but chance of making a mistake in the spell selection seems to be quite high and I haven't seen any way within the game to determine which spell you can pick at which level.
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Rigela
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Re: Infernalist warlocks

Post by Rigela » Sat Apr 21, 2018 11:23 pm

You don't select spells as a warlock though, or I never had to with mine. Whatever you pick each time is just disregarded and you only get whatever you are meant to get at X level.
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Re: Infernalist warlocks

Post by Void » Sat Apr 21, 2018 11:46 pm

Rigela wrote:
Sat Apr 21, 2018 11:23 pm
You don't select spells as a warlock though, or I never had to with mine. Whatever you pick each time is just disregarded and you only get whatever you are meant to get at X level.
Well, unless I misunderstood something, the spell selection was necessary. Bard gets 5 spells per levels max, and infernal warlock progression includes 8 level 2 spells.

"Invalid" spells are automatically removed from spellbook, of course.
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Rigela
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Re: Infernalist warlocks

Post by Rigela » Sat Apr 21, 2018 11:49 pm

NegInfinity wrote:
Sat Apr 21, 2018 11:46 pm
Rigela wrote:
Sat Apr 21, 2018 11:23 pm
You don't select spells as a warlock though, or I never had to with mine. Whatever you pick each time is just disregarded and you only get whatever you are meant to get at X level.
Well, unless I misunderstood something, the spell selection was necessary. Bard gets 5 spells per levels max, and infernal warlock progression includes 8 level 2 spells.

"Invalid" spells are automatically removed from spellbook, of course.
I mean, you need to select something each time as that is how bard works, but I always just hit recommended each level and it never made a difference. I guess I could have been lucky and that just hit the needed ones each time.
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Re: Infernalist warlocks

Post by Void » Sun Apr 22, 2018 12:01 am

Rigela wrote:
Sat Apr 21, 2018 11:49 pm
NegInfinity wrote:
Sat Apr 21, 2018 11:46 pm
Rigela wrote:
Sat Apr 21, 2018 11:23 pm
You don't select spells as a warlock though, or I never had to with mine. Whatever you pick each time is just disregarded and you only get whatever you are meant to get at X level.
Well, unless I misunderstood something, the spell selection was necessary. Bard gets 5 spells per levels max, and infernal warlock progression includes 8 level 2 spells.

"Invalid" spells are automatically removed from spellbook, of course.
I mean, you need to select something each time as that is how bard works, but I always just hit recommended each level and it never made a difference. I guess I could have been lucky and that just hit the needed ones each time.
Well... I've been picking correct spells by hand each time. *sighs* Would be great a dev chimed in and told how it was supposed to work.

The point about more flexibility still stands, by the way. I kinda wanted to make a crossbowman warlock (hiding powers means no flaring), but because the first animal spell that opens up is Bull's strength in the end the warlock ended up bludgeoning things in a fight.
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Baron Saturday
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Re: Infernalist warlocks

Post by Baron Saturday » Sun Apr 22, 2018 12:07 am

Yeah, it doesn't matter at all what spells you pick on level up, you just automatically get the ones on the warlock spell list.
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Re: Infernalist warlocks

Post by Void » Sun Apr 22, 2018 12:29 am

Baron Saturday wrote:
Sun Apr 22, 2018 12:07 am
Yeah, it doesn't matter at all what spells you pick on level up, you just automatically get the ones on the warlock spell list.
Interesting. Would be great if it was documented somewhere.

Also, I suspect it doesn't really grant the bard 8 level 2 spells, right? Meaning some selection would be necessary.
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Phoxly
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Re: Infernalist warlocks

Post by Phoxly » Sun Apr 22, 2018 12:41 am

Isn't warlock bugged right now anyway due to the EE migration? Or was that fixed?

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Re: Infernalist warlocks

Post by Baron Saturday » Sun Apr 22, 2018 12:48 am

NegInfinity wrote:
Sun Apr 22, 2018 12:29 am
Also, I suspect it doesn't really grant the bard 8 level 2 spells, right? Meaning some selection would be necessary.
No, it totally does. You could just click random spells at every level, and still end up with the same spell list. It doesn't really need to be documented, because there's no way to do it "wrong," or in a way that prevents you from getting the spells you're supposed to.
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Rigela
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Re: Infernalist warlocks

Post by Rigela » Sun Apr 22, 2018 12:51 am

Phoxly wrote:
Sun Apr 22, 2018 12:41 am
Isn't warlock bugged right now anyway due to the EE migration? Or was that fixed?
I think it might just be feylocks with their shadow summon. Not sure if that is fixed though.

And yup, you get 8 level 2 spells to do with as you like.
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Re: Infernalist warlocks

Post by Void » Sun Apr 22, 2018 12:54 am

Rigela wrote:
Sun Apr 22, 2018 12:51 am
Phoxly wrote:
Sun Apr 22, 2018 12:41 am
Isn't warlock bugged right now anyway due to the EE migration? Or was that fixed?
I think it might just be feylocks with their shadow summon. Not sure if that is fixed though.

And yup, you get 8 level 2 spells to do with as you like.
/facepalm

Alright, till the next warlock, I suppose.

I still think ti would be nice to have a choice regarding order in which spells unlock, though.
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Re: Infernalist warlocks

Post by Kuma » Sun Apr 22, 2018 12:57 am

NegInfinity wrote:
Sun Apr 22, 2018 12:54 am
I still think ti would be nice to have a choice regarding order in which spells unlock, though.
That's kind of the Thing with Arelith warlocks, though. The class is 'fixed'. Just as the Sorcerer or Bard sacrifices the Wizard's versatility for more casts per day, the Warlock sacrifices even more for infinite castings. It'd be a massive balance shift if Arelith Warlocks could select their powers.

Now, a hak interpretation of Warlock could accurately portray them, by including the proper invocations and feats (like Hideous Blow and so on), but who knows if that'll happen?

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Baron Saturday
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Re: Infernalist warlocks

Post by Baron Saturday » Sun Apr 22, 2018 1:04 am

The strength of the warlock class is that it is very newbie friendly, mechanically. It's very hard to mess it up to the point that it will be bad. My first character was a warlock, I had no idea what I was doing when I made her, and there there was a massive warlock update when she hit level 18. None of it mattered, because at the end of the day she was still able to dish out reliable damage and summon a big stompy thing.

This comes with its own weakness, however, in that it's a very inflexible class. There's basically only one way to make warlocks, with a few minor variations possible. In terms of build and general power, all fiendlocks are gonna be pretty similar to other fiendlocks.
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Re: Infernalist warlocks

Post by Void » Sun Apr 22, 2018 2:47 am

Baron Saturday wrote:
Sun Apr 22, 2018 1:04 am
The strength of the warlock class is that it is very newbie friendly, mechanically. It's very hard to mess it up to the point that it will be bad. My first character was a warlock, I had no idea what I was doing when I made her, and there there was a massive warlock update when she hit level 18. None of it mattered, because at the end of the day she was still able to dish out reliable damage and summon a big stompy thing.

This comes with its own weakness, however, in that it's a very inflexible class. There's basically only one way to make warlocks, with a few minor variations possible. In terms of build and general power, all fiendlocks are gonna be pretty similar to other fiendlocks.
The way I see it, it could be possible to make several "warlock paths" similar to the way, for example, totem druids work (you pick an animal and it affect powers), for example. And that could affect order of the spells.

I played nwn2 warlocks before, you see, and there was significant variation. Basically, aside from the fact that you could be a blaster or try to become a controller, the class was front-loaded with least invocations that lasted 24 hours, but yo ucouldn't pick them all. Then you could try try fighting different ways....

So, could be something akin to tiefling fiendish bloodlines with "path of brawl" (bull's strength first), "path of nimble" (cat's grace first) or something like that, with order of appearance of animal spells being swapped about... but in the end they'd end up being roughly the same.

Honestly, the one thing I wanted with my fiendlock was getting leaps and bounds, I mean cat's grace first.

Or rather than fiendish bloodlines, it could be pact types like they were implemented in 5e (pact of the blade, apct of the tome, etc).

Either way, some choices would be nice.
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Re: Infernalist warlocks

Post by ForgottenBhaal » Sun Apr 22, 2018 2:04 pm

I personally would like to see Warlock turned towards how warlocks work in 3.5.
Instead of this odd summoner path we have.
http://dnd.arkalseif.info/classes/warlock/index.html

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Baron Saturday
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Re: Infernalist warlocks

Post by Baron Saturday » Sun Apr 22, 2018 2:24 pm

I too learned about (and fell in love with) warlocks in NWN2, and I'm certainly not opposed to seeing them become a more versatile class in the future. I suspect we won't see that happen until they become a class in their own right, however, rather than a bard path, which means we'll probably be waiting until the EE bugs have been squished and Arelith starts moving towards becoming a hak-based server.
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Re: Infernalist warlocks

Post by Void » Sun Apr 22, 2018 3:44 pm

ForgottenBhaal wrote:
Sun Apr 22, 2018 2:04 pm
I personally would like to see Warlock turned towards how warlocks work in 3.5.
Instead of this odd summoner path we have.
http://dnd.arkalseif.info/classes/warlock/index.html
I know the 3.5 warlock class well, but my understanding is that it won't be possible in nwn1 without haks custom content. Unless EE changes it somehow.

Summoner path has its own flavor which I quite enjoyed. 3.5e warlocks, by the way, have pretty much no ability to summon anything. (aside single invocation that raise zombies)

Not sure if turning towards hak based server would be a good thing. Right now arelith is easily accessilbe withotu complicated installation procedures (IIRC some of the other servers have a page of instrufctions to making it work sometimes).
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Baron Saturday
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Re: Infernalist warlocks

Post by Baron Saturday » Sun Apr 22, 2018 3:52 pm

Not to derail the thread, but it's been pretty definitively stated that Arelith will eventually use haks. Work had actually started on this, with a showcase server made, but that's been delayed by EE.

Obviously remaining accessible is still the goal, so the team has said that they would have a launcher to auto-download and install the hak files. It's 2018, after all - we have the technology!
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susitsu
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Re: Infernalist warlocks

Post by susitsu » Sun Apr 22, 2018 5:52 pm

Please explain the rationale behind not wanting free bull's strength.

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