Umber hulk in the stinger caves

[susitsu]

this is artificial difficulty based on player ignorance

it has a habit of unexpectedly killing people far too fast and proceeding to rip apart player groups who didn't know what to expect, feels a little silly when you just can't do anything about that

Carry invis potions. Haste potions to flee. Etc etc.

This is far from "can't do anything about that."

Even my silly darkness worked against it (racial ability, wand, Scroll, that mundane item).

It's pretty funny how that works out when you've probably already abandoned a dead player at this point and you're headed straight for more stinger mobs that are likely just going to finish you off if the umber hulk failed to.

Nothing about the fact that this scenario is essentially RNGesus guaranteed and forced is okay.

I do think it's artificial difficulty, and the idea you shouldn't explore a module is completely off the table and then we just go right back to "the umberhulk unexpectedly wipes unprepared parties and they can't do anything about it." I don't really think I'm reading into it that hard. It was placed there solely as something that will kill level range specific players, right?

[Baron Saturday]

Personally I like that Umber Hulk. Sure, you're likely to end up running for your life the first time you meet it, but if you can bring it down, you've got yourself a shortcut home - and back again. It's an optional boss that provides quality of life benefits.

Assuming you live, obviously.

[Gods_Kill_People]

Actually you dont need to fight it for the portal...the one at the portal is VASTLY weaker then that boss, the "Boss" only guards a single treasure chest which imo really isnt worth the effort.

[Queen Titania]

I don't think it needs to be nerfed. I do think sometimes the tactical solution needs to be thought more thoroughly instead, retreat and increase of numbers being some viable options.

For the determined, it gives a reason to return for the benefits of that feeling of triumph, and a shortcut home.

[susitsu]

you don't even have to fight it to go home, you just kind of end up walking into a room with a poison trap and a lot of stingers and if you don't know what you're doing, you watch it munch through lowbies.

i really hope no one here thinks i need to be told how to play this game. i'm fairly certain i know what i'm talking about when i say it destroys the unprepared and ignorant, and that's why it is a problem. it's still a game, and one should still take in "level design" in addition to "atmosphere."

in reality, the umber hulk is just a matter of having a party, and a good comp for it.

[flower]

More places should have mixed difficulty. So people are forced into more careful play. Especially in UD one area shuld containt certain places where you go only if really ready.

You can always spend time to rp with others, asking for dangers around, buying info and alike. People never do that, because it is not needed.

When on low level with my warrior and Saslae going around she kept whinning be careful not to turn there, or we are done, and it made up for the feelings greatly. "What is she so worried about?" And then the thing almost ate us alive (but we managed!) and it was great feeling of accomplisment.

It may be just my oppinion, but people get so overly lazy, wanting all even, safe, and straight.

[Baron Saturday]

Actually you dont need to fight it for the portal...the one at the portal is VASTLY weaker then that boss, the "Boss" only guards a single treasure chest which imo really isnt worth the effort.

I am apparently thinking about the wrong umber hulk.

[flower]

Actually you dont need to fight it for the portal...the one at the portal is VASTLY weaker then that boss, the "Boss" only guards a single treasure chest which imo really isnt worth the effort.

I am apparently thinking about the wrong umber hulk.

Yes. The one WITHIN tunnels in side kick part of it. A bit isolated place.

[BegoneThoth]

I like random, unexpected difficulty spikes because I hate when things are made for casuals.

[Xarge VI]

I agree. Nothing makes my day than a group of adventurers finding suddenly finding themselves overwhelmed.

Some of the best experiences in adventuring have been exactly those.
Finding a narrow escape sometimes by sacrificing a party member or the entire party.
Or on another character staying behind to face the overwhelming foe to give the rest of the party a chance to escape.

"Fly, you fools!"

[BegoneThoth]

Random "out of depth" monsters to keep players on their toes, DC 60 30d6 sonic traps, doors that plot lock behind you, a writ at level 14 that sends you after a harpy swinging at +32, content like this shakes up the status quo and is really what stops most of the content from feeling like a Wow instance.

Because there's actual danger.

[cptcuddlepants]

I agree. Nothing makes my day than a group of adventurers finding suddenly finding themselves overwhelmed.

Some of the best experiences in adventuring have been exactly those.
Finding a narrow escape sometimes by sacrificing a party member or the entire party.
Or on another character staying behind to face the overwhelming foe to give the rest of the party a chance to escape.

"Fly, you fools!"

This doesn't quite work out as well when monsters have infinite aggro range

[Xanos950]

That umberhulk's gonna chase you to the Outpost gates if you're unlucky because they rarely ever lose aggro.

By then, even before all that, a group of stingers has probably aggro'd you from running away and most likely blocked you in a doorway still inside the dungeon, as they like to do.

[flower]

How unfair that stigners sometiems cooperate!

If they block you, how did you get to that monster in first place? (not cutting trough them?).

[Intrepid42]

Heh. Some of us play builds that don't cut through the spawns like a hot knife through butter. I've had my "new player fleeing from Umber Hulk" experience, and the Stingers had respawned. Thankfully that Outpost Giant is a dab hand at throwing boulders.

Still, it was great fun. It was also a useful way of learning that the enemy is not always predictable, and learning that early on when the cost of the lesson was low.

[Iceborn]

I'm not a new player, and I got rolfstomped by the Umber Hulk when I was there. Since I was playing a low-con build, I didn't particularly have much chance to escape either.

But the godsaves exist precisely for that at least.

[Ebonstar]

ive played through those caves and stealthed quite well against both stingers and umberhulks. They dont have true sight since umber hulks are blind last i read, they have ground sense, so if you walk softly and in random patterns they dont "see" or chase you

[One Two Three Five]

That's not how blindsense works, dude. They didn't code sandworm senses into the game. It's pretty much just range-limited true sight.

[Xuuldar]

They didn't code sandworm senses into the game.

Darnit, now I have to go watch Tremors!

Honestly I like the Umberhulk. After mindlessly destroying hundreds of Stingers that pose 0 challenge, I find it fun to have to stop and figure out a strategy to overcome an actual challenge.

[Look to Windward]

That's not how blindsense works, dude. They didn't code sandworm senses into the game. It's pretty much just range-limited true sight.

We must grind without rhythm, lest we attract the worm.

[Ork]

the spice must flow

[Lorkas]

That's not how blindsense works, dude. They didn't code sandworm senses into the game. It's pretty much just range-limited true sight.

Range limited but not LoS limited, unlike true seeing.

[Stath]

The Umberhulk is one of the most egregiously placed mobs on the module. It's just a trap that spells death for any level appropriate small adventuring party that don't know it's there. Anyone who does know it's there avoids it- the argument that it is an optional boss is a fallacy when someone can open a door and have it right there.

Add a few dismembered corpses outside that can be examined, letting characters know something dangerous is in the vicinity. Done.

[Memelord]

Tell me - have you heard of rothe chewing their legs off to escape a knockdown? That there's a rothe sort of trick. A true ilythiir would embrace the knockdown, enduring the pain and feigning lack of discipline that he might later kill the Umber Hulk remove a threat to his kind.

Dune memes aside, the Umber Hulk is grossly misplaced and is one of the more egregious examples of an issue that plagues a lot of Arelith's oldschool dungeons - a complete lack of encounter progression; sudden spikes in difficulty with little to no warning let alone rhyme or reason. It isn't good game design.

The only real reason not to change/nerf/remove the Umber Hulk is the idea that the developers' time would be better spent working on other aspects of the game - which is fine, an entirely acceptable and reasonable response. The developers are working out of their own spare time and entirely on their own dime, how they decide to allocate the resources that they have isn't something that we can really question. But while that's an entirely acceptable reason for not touching the thing, that still doesn't make the Umber Hulk good game design.

[Invader_Nym]

Critters like this incentivize meta-gaming and power-gaming. There's also the problem of the risk/reward ratio. Often when these death-traps are sprung players aren't rewarded for their ingenuity even in cases where they manage to escape/prevail.