Make me an iconic swashbuckler bard

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R0GUE
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Make me an iconic swashbuckler bard

Post by R0GUE » Fri Aug 30, 2019 1:35 am

I know it won't be the most optimized but can someone make me a viable Dex based, swashbuckling, rakish, roguish bard who fights using weapon finesse? If a bard is generally seen as equal parts fighter, wizard, and rogue, think of this version as skewing toward the wizard and rogue. Would prefer it to be a bit of a skill monkey as well, but that's not a hard ask considering the bards class skills. Would also be nice to be able to cast IN COMBAT.

Thanks!

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Peppermint
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Re: Make me an iconic swashbuckler bard

Post by Peppermint » Fri Aug 30, 2019 2:54 am

Is doing solid damage important to you? Or are you willing to settle for a support-oriented character?

Also, do you need lasting inspiration, or is 16 bard okay by you?

Note it's very hard to do both.

You could also do rogue (with high lore!) or a dex-based fighter "duelist".

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R0GUE
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Re: Make me an iconic swashbuckler bard

Post by R0GUE » Fri Aug 30, 2019 3:25 am

Let's go with a support character.

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Dr. B
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Re: Make me an iconic swashbuckler bard

Post by Dr. B » Fri Aug 30, 2019 3:37 am

There is no optimal way to do this, so for lack of a better suggestion I recommend a 20/5/5 Bard/Fighter/Harper Paragon. Typically, this build goes for 18 cha and 24 strength, but you will being going for 18 cha and 24 dex and picking up Weapon Finesse. With access to Lasting Inspiration and a decent Bard Song, you can play a support role but also do passingly acceptable damage with divine might, Bard Song, and Epic Weapon spec. Divine shield and Bard song will also give you excellent AC. You will also have superior saving throws. Thematically, Tymora can cover both the Harper and swashbuckling aspects of your roleplay, and CG would be a fitting alignment.

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Drowble Oh Seven
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Re: Make me an iconic swashbuckler bard

Post by Drowble Oh Seven » Fri Aug 30, 2019 4:09 am

As an aside; if I were trying to accomplish something thematically similar, I might try swinging a 4 Fighter / 10 PDK / 16 Rogue. It's not a bard (unfortunately) but does fill a similar niche of being a DEX-based support style character while still achieving epic dodge (which, in my opinion, is almost mandatory on a DEX build, alongside sneak attack so your damage isn't absolutely anaemic). No alignment restrictions, so you could quite reasonably use it for a range of concepts based on how you RP'd your PDK abilities.

If it's just the look of the thing, then you could just do a 30 Bard, invest in CHA; up your song to the cap, and use -mimic to support the appearance of high-DEX gallivanting while you carry a rapier. Honestly, I'd be more inclined to do that then try to squeeze any sort of competent melee capacity out of a DEX bard. It's just very difficult to find damage sources without jumping into sneak attack territory (which cuts into your support capability by making you vulnerable to dispels, hurting your bard song, etc).

That said, Dr. B's build looks serviceable, even if I've got a personal dislike for divine might as a damage source given the limitations on duration.

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Re: Make me an iconic swashbuckler bard

Post by Peppermint » Fri Aug 30, 2019 7:35 am

If you're dead set on avoiding divine classes, avoiding PDK, and being DEX-based, your options are pretty limited and all fairly suboptimal. You could probably do something like the following:

Human
Bard 25/Fighter 5 (Take four fighter levels pre-epic)

Starting Stats
Str 10
Dex 14 + 2 (Gift)
Con 16
Wis 8
Int 14
Cha 14 + 2 (Gift)

Put all level ups into DEX. Take Gift of Stardom.

Feats: Expertise, Improved Expertise, Weapon Finesse, Weapon Focus: Rapier, Weapon Specialization: Rapier, Knockdown, Improved Knockdown, Blind Fight, Curse Song, Improved Critical: Rapier, Toughness, Lasting Inspiration, Epic Weapon Focus: Rapier, Epic Weapon Specialization: Rapier, Epic Skill Focus: Discipline, Epic Skill Focus: Perform

Skills: Discipline, Heal, Parry, Perform, Spellcraft, Taunt, Tumble (30), Use Magic Device (10)

Note: you'll have to less than fully invest in either Heal or Spellcraft to accommodate all these.

You'll end up with decent AB/AC. Your damage will be anemic, though should be serviceable when parrying; when not parrying, you can taunt or knock down targets. You'll have no trouble casting; you wear cloth with this build. You'll be an excellent support.

On the other hand, you're focusing on AB and weapon-oriented feats with a build that can't really use them that effectively (i.e. your damage is pretty poor). And you're a bit feat-starved in epics, meaning you can't grab Armor Skin or Epic Prowess.

It's really not a good build, but if you're dead set on kneecapping yourself with the requirements, it's at least baseline functional. You'll be a solid support with some melee utility.

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Drowble Oh Seven
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Re: Make me an iconic swashbuckler bard

Post by Drowble Oh Seven » Fri Aug 30, 2019 12:28 pm

For sure. I did some playing and came up with a similar build. Though mine dropped ESF: Discipline and Epic Weapon Specialisation (and, with it, one fighter level) in favour of picking up Armour Skin, Epic Weapon Prowess, and Epic Skill Focus: Parry (with the extra feat you get on 26 Bard). Figured the +15 discipline you get from bard song would do an acceptable job in the absence of the ESF. And if you're already a parry gimmick build, might as well go all the way in.

If you can spare the skill points to drop one into open lock / trap as well, the song bonus and DEX'll get you most places you want to go.

It's many things. It certainly would be irksome to play without a group - though not impossible. But no-one can deny that it's swashbuckling.

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Re: Make me an iconic swashbuckler bard

Post by malcolm_mountainslayer » Fri Aug 30, 2019 1:09 pm

Im going to get some hate on me and suggest something weird like a bard shadowdancer.

16 bard/ 14 SD

Can get you epic shadowlord (so you aernt constantly relying on costly scrolls for summoning for a lot of your leveling)

HiPS

Epic dodge.

Actsully this kind of go against what you want. Casting spells in combat. As your casyer level will be too low for stuff like dispellijg and you will get debuffed yourself easily.

Ignore that suggestion lol.

I feel like some spellsword dex build with rogue levels might suit your needs better.

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Sockss
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Re: Make me an iconic swashbuckler bard

Post by Sockss » Fri Aug 30, 2019 5:45 pm

I completely missed this and posted in the wrong place.

viewtopic.php?f=37&t=23860&p=200803#p200803
Thankfully this team is no longer being used.

Sockss#5567 for nwn mechanics questions.

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Re: Make me an iconic swashbuckler bard

Post by R0GUE » Fri Aug 30, 2019 9:21 pm

Sockss wrote:
Fri Aug 30, 2019 5:45 pm
I completely missed this and posted in the wrong place.

viewtopic.php?f=37&t=23860&p=200803#p200803
It's fine, I just felt like it was moving off topic, and my complaints were also beating a dead horse.

The1Kobra
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Re: Make me an iconic swashbuckler bard

Post by The1Kobra » Sat Aug 31, 2019 2:32 am

If you want to go with more skillmonkey, you can do something like this, I'm assuming human base:

Pre-epic: 3/12/5 Rogue/Bard/Fighter
Epic: 4/20/6 Rogue/Bard/Fighter
Stats:
10/16/14/14/8/14
10/18/14/14/8/16 (With Gifts)
(Finesse is automatic at rogue 2)
Pre-epic(8+3F): WF, Blind Fight, KD, IKD, Weapon Specialization, Curse Song, Extend Spell, IMPR Crit, Brew Potion, ?, ?
Epic(4+1F): EWF, Armor Skin, G-Dex 1, Lasting Inspiration, Epic Weapon Specialization

End Stats:
10/26/14/14/8/16

Just a few notes since I play a similar build on one of my characters, this build is incredibly skill tight, especially if you want to grab open lock/disarm trap/search. If you want to you could grab the INT gift instead of the DEX one.

Brew potion is really nice on a bard for war cry potion crafting and I really wish I did on mine. (Would have if he had the rogue free feat). Your damage/hit definitely won't be terribly impressive, but Having Fighter with EWS should help.

Last thing, if you really want to go into the swashbuckler theme, Parry might be a good idea. You can get it plenty high with your song too, you have two free feats so you might want to grab improved parry if you really want to go for it. It does fit the theme at least.

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Re: Make me an iconic swashbuckler bard

Post by RedGiant » Sun Sep 01, 2019 10:48 pm

As for damage on dex builds, if you aspire toward swordplay derring-do , I think I would work in the full suite of parry goodness, which should only be enhanced by your end run bard song.

Consider: parried attacks have +5 AB and damage bonus equal to half the parry skill up to 20 ranks, and 1/4 beyond 20 ranks. Skill bonus from items count. Parry is a toggled mode, like the modified (Improved) Expertise.

So, you can get +10 damage for rank 20 parry and +1 for every fourth skill rank after that.

I would strongly consider improved skill focus parry, skill focus parry, and eventually epic skill focus parry. That's +17 parry right there, plus your 33 base at lvl 30, plus your dex bonus. Beyond this you also have the suite of parry items plus bard song. It you hit 60 parry, which isn't too terribly hard to do in the above scenario, you are already at +20 to damage on every riposte.

Granted, parry is not perfect, but I've found it to be surprisingly awesome in PvE and occasionally even useful in PvP.

I like Peppermint's 25/5 suggestion, but here I might rearrange some of the feats to hone in on this parry goodness. Specifically, I would probably drop other toggled modes like expertise to focus in on this ability.
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