Arelith

TL:DR: What is the best 3-man PvP party? Why? Pro/con?

Premise: work is kicking my arse at 60+hours/week and I need a distraction. I love theory crafting so let's do it!

Disclaimer: Arelith is not a PvP centric island, and any character played for the sole purpose will be very very boring, and likely ban hammered. But this is a theory crafting project not a recommendation. However if you feel that a particular build has notable pve and/RP feel free to note them!

Now we are on Arelith are Arelith tiles of engagement apply. Please insert the style of the builds in your discussion, if it is a pop out and hit fast glass cannon, please include how it stays alive till then (of it's own or others power) and it's place in the line up. Given the need for RP, it may be hard if your only visible character is a bear for example.

Lastly, obviously no one character or group of three will be dominant in EVERY encounter. Arelith and PvP are dynamic after all! Do note the likely vulnerabilities to each composition.

PS as I'm an avid theory crafter, links to infinitely build concepts are always appreciated additions!

I think three mages would be pretty powerful and fun rp, pve, and pvp. The esf utility would mean they could easily hunt down whoever they wanted, and some pre-planned tactics, like always accepting yoinks immediately and blasting out with a time stop and a yoink for the third, would make them pretty defensive.

True Flame/Cleric/1-H\Shield Tanky WM.

Cleric SR/Freedom/Deathwards all 3, WM guards the True Flame, Cleric distributes heals as needed and AoE's (as well as Storm of Vengeance should anyone actually dare to engage), whilst otherwise evading ranged DPS in Improved Expertise, utilizing Greater Sanctuary (extended) if necessary and Protection Domain Sanctuary (at DC 40+ ) as a backup. The True Flame does what true flames do- throw so much damage your targets have to engage or flee- at which point you either chase them down or let them go; just don't get separated.

It goes without saying that the WM obliterates anything that makes it past the TF and the Storm of Vengeance- and the cleric can provide true seeing in the event of stealth.

3 monks

wish i was joking

also an archer would obliterate a trueflame and can kite the melee. true flame is not great at pvp except in big numbers where it's ignored.

3 monks

1 elf running dex/wis monk 20 rogue 5 sd 5 HIPS healing kits support to make sure the monks can constantly rotate out and never die
1 wild dwarf monk katana wm two-handing a katana forcing engagements and attention to be paid to a 2h WM while the other two work unbothered
1 human monk 30 with fists to break +5 DR and flurry with high damage, blinding speed, and epic dodge

alternately

if we're talking of the absolute maximum skill cap

3 pure 30 wildmages all taking epic spell pen, all of whom are assumed to be able to -fate to the highest degree of skill possible for combine combinations of spells and effects, and can work together and synergize spellbooks for PvP.

Three Trueflames that all simultaneously hellball and then greater ruin is a hilarious idea in and of itself, but rules of engagement get a little muddy here, I think the wild mages win out here, and the monks just take it on plain every level possible.

NWN and DnD in general does its best optimization when you needle absolutely as hard as possible, so other things I could see doing well would be three 24/6 rogues or three 16/10/4 horc dual weild barbarians that look to just burst down everything ASAP.

Zavandar wrote: ↑

Fri Aug 09, 2019 7:30 am

3 monks

wish i was joking

also an archer would obliterate a trueflame and can kite the melee. true flame is not great at pvp except in big numbers where it's ignored.

...Why would the melee leave the true flame that he's -guarding? The archer (and all other physical damage) has to get through the tank's -guard (backed up by potentially untargetable cleric heals) to obliterate the TF, the TF can sit back and blast spells from range just like the archer.

Your archer idea is great but in my experience most AA's have crap saves- TFs have plenty of ways to neutralize any archer so long as they have a -guard, and unlike the archer, they can ignore -guard.

We could theory-craft back and forth all day about who's idea is flawed and why, but it comes down to tactics and preference.

3 monks is evil, there would be constant moments of paralysis by analysis as you tried to decide which zooming blur to target.

Aelryn Bloodmoon wrote: ↑

Fri Aug 09, 2019 9:53 am

Zavandar wrote: ↑

Fri Aug 09, 2019 7:30 am

3 monks

wish i was joking

also an archer would obliterate a trueflame and can kite the melee. true flame is not great at pvp except in big numbers where it's ignored.

...Why would the melee leave the true flame that he's -guarding? The archer (and all other physical damage) has to get through the tank's -guard (backed up by potentially untargetable cleric heals) to obliterate the TF, the TF can sit back and blast spells from range just like the archer.

Your archer idea is great but in my experience most AA's have crap saves- TFs have plenty of ways to neutralize any archer so long as they have a -guard, and unlike the archer, they can ignore -guard.

We could theory-craft back and forth all day about who's idea is flawed and why, but it comes down to tactics and preference.

3 monks is evil, there would be constant moments of paralysis by analysis as you tried to decide which zooming blur to target.

Guard does not work against players or summons.

Hazard wrote: ↑

Fri Aug 09, 2019 10:01 am

Aelryn Bloodmoon wrote: ↑

Fri Aug 09, 2019 9:53 am

Zavandar wrote: ↑

Fri Aug 09, 2019 7:30 am

3 monks

wish i was joking

also an archer would obliterate a trueflame and can kite the melee. true flame is not great at pvp except in big numbers where it's ignored.

...Why would the melee leave the true flame that he's -guarding? The archer (and all other physical damage) has to get through the tank's -guard (backed up by potentially untargetable cleric heals) to obliterate the TF, the TF can sit back and blast spells from range just like the archer.

Your archer idea is great but in my experience most AA's have crap saves- TFs have plenty of ways to neutralize any archer so long as they have a -guard, and unlike the archer, they can ignore -guard.

We could theory-craft back and forth all day about who's idea is flawed and why, but it comes down to tactics and preference.

3 monks is evil, there would be constant moments of paralysis by analysis as you tried to decide which zooming blur to target.

Guard does not work against players or summons.

... Oh. TIL. Has it always been like that?

Aelryn Bloodmoon wrote: ↑

Fri Aug 09, 2019 11:08 am

Hazard wrote: ↑

Fri Aug 09, 2019 10:01 am

Aelryn Bloodmoon wrote: ↑

Fri Aug 09, 2019 9:53 am

...Why would the melee leave the true flame that he's -guarding? The archer (and all other physical damage) has to get through the tank's -guard (backed up by potentially untargetable cleric heals) to obliterate the TF, the TF can sit back and blast spells from range just like the archer.

Your archer idea is great but in my experience most AA's have crap saves- TFs have plenty of ways to neutralize any archer so long as they have a -guard, and unlike the archer, they can ignore -guard.

We could theory-craft back and forth all day about who's idea is flawed and why, but it comes down to tactics and preference.

3 monks is evil, there would be constant moments of paralysis by analysis as you tried to decide which zooming blur to target.

Guard does not work against players or summons.

... Oh. TIL. Has it always been like that?

Yeah, I think it has. It even extends to summons from NPCs, so if you rely entirely on -guard function (shadow dancer) and the enemy summons an elemental to clobber you, you might be borked x.x ..

Aelryn Bloodmoon wrote: ↑

Fri Aug 09, 2019 11:08 am

... Oh. TIL. Has it always been like that?

Yes. -guard overrides the AI so that when something tries to directly target a guarded character, it's forced to target the guard instead. Can't do that with PCs. That's also why it doesn't block AoOs. Those don't require direct targeting.

Similar to guard not working against players and summoned creatures (even those from NPCs), a vampire's -bite also does not work on them. Meaning a vampire cannot down a heal pot (because it would explode), or take a chomp out of you or any summons to heal itself.

Zavandar wrote: ↑

Fri Aug 09, 2019 7:30 am

3 monks

wish i was joking

I know monks got a recent patch update, but is it that strong now? Monks in base nwn are very lack luster, it is actually why the game imported the monk only ac/ab items because they were actually found to be that far behind they needed the help. I know monk used to get dipped a lot for ac etc, but why does pure monk stand out on arelith now, even with the recent patch?

BobTheSkull wrote: ↑

Sat Aug 10, 2019 1:56 am

why does pure monk stand out on arelith now

Very high AC, epic dodge, decent AB and damage with 46 SR that cannot be breached. Decent offense and basically immortal in terms of defense.

Do you have a detailed build for monk? I'd live to see it. I started building one on my own spread sheet and it is nice, better than I expected, though I do not see it as immortal per se.

This is a build that Zavandar has posted before. I'd say it's pretty good.

3 good players that know how to play neverwinter nights

forgot boot ac and brewed barkskin pots in those calculations

also forgot an aid potion if we're going all out

Aside from the disciple chest armor, and displacer cloak, is there any unique/crafted gear? Value in getting ac from gear vs stat? Particularly on helmet slot?

Elven helm adds +2 ac deflection and hide/Ms

For weapon, why katana over disciple Kama?

You can also have a mage armor potion on that monk build for +1 dodge ac for 12 minutes. It's possible to reach 63 AC fully buffed, all by yourself.

Zavandar wrote: ↑

Fri Aug 09, 2019 7:30 am

3 monks

wish i was joking

This. 3 Monks, straight 30, DEX/WIS.

Jack Oat wrote: ↑

Wed Aug 14, 2019 2:10 pm

Zavandar wrote: ↑

Fri Aug 09, 2019 7:30 am

3 monks

wish i was joking

This. 3 Monks, straight 30, DEX/WIS.

my 3 pure shadowdancers beat ur 3 monks jack

Tarkus the dog wrote: ↑

Wed Aug 14, 2019 3:03 pm

Jack Oat wrote: ↑

Wed Aug 14, 2019 2:10 pm

Zavandar wrote: ↑

Fri Aug 09, 2019 7:30 am

3 monks

wish i was joking

This. 3 Monks, straight 30, DEX/WIS.

my 3 pure shadowdancers beat ur 3 monks jack

hmmm

What is the shadow dancer build for PvP? I have always viewed them as a pve class.

The best 3 man team also depends a lot on what one is fighting. Using feats for extra sr is great, but you lose something against melee.

Tarkus the dog wrote: ↑

Wed Aug 14, 2019 3:03 pm

my 3 pure shadowdancers beat ur 3 monks jack

What shadow dancer build for PvP?