Some Weaponmaster Questions

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Vogar Eol
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Some Weaponmaster Questions

Post by Vogar Eol » Wed Jun 19, 2019 9:14 pm

I’m an old player returning to NWN:EE after many years of NWN2 on BGTSCC. Back in the day I played on “Regions of Lore” and “Aertheca” NWN1 servers. I really enjoy unique builds meshed to unique personalities, and tend to build in some handicaps to keep characters interesting for me.

I’m a bit rusty on how Keen stacks in with WM feats and improved critical in NWN:EE. Will all the feats and Keen stack together? It looks that way.

Also, I notice Fighter and several other base classes have been enhanced on Arelith. Does no one here ever play a 19WM? All I see scanning in this build forum are 7WM builds. I’m aware of the Fighter bonuses here, but WM at high levels has some hidden benefits I’d think would interest some role players.

On Gifts, I made my current Fighter character when NWN:EE first came out. I can’t remember if I took any gifts or not. Is there a way to check the character for gifts?

Lastly, what are some of the better base weapons to invest in as a Weapon of Choice other than the standard cookie cutter Rapier, Scimitar, Scythe builds? I may have made a mistake picking Bastard Sword, as I really haven’t seen any in player shops, or even as a Bronze Bastard Sword. Thankfully with some roleplay in Skal someone made one to start out with.

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Re: Some Weaponmaster Questions

Post by Dedman1234 » Wed Jun 19, 2019 11:10 pm

1. Keen does stack with wm feats. A 20/7/3 WM with a keened scimmy/rapier has a crit range of 10-20. Without a keen property, the same guy has only a range of 12-20.


2. Some people do play chars with tons of WM levels. Usually those guys are wielding scythes or other two-handers and hope their massive ab and damage will be enough to kill things, before the things kill them.
I doubt anyone goes up to 19 as it does not actually give you any bonuses, since if you want umd and tumble, then you would need to pick up rogue/bard before epics, decreasing your BAB, negating the bonus from epic WM levels. Also, 19 wm leaves only one level in the epics to either pick rogue for skill dump or fighter for EWS. The highest I would ever go would be 15-17 WM levels.

Fighter is picked for the feats and slight ac bonuses, wich are usually better than the few additional ab for most builds.

3. Yup. There should be an item, that looks like the reapers relic from HotU, called "character properties" or something like that. You can see your gifts in the description of said item.

4. Bastard sword is good for characters with divine might feats or the like, since it is one of the few weapons, that can be used both one-handed and two-handed, wich gives those guys bonus divine damage when they want it. Otherwise, I would avoid it, unless you are an Orog or something. It requires a feat investment for exotic prof and doesn't actually give anything noteworthy back, unless you got the feat I mentioned earlier. The best weapons for a WM are usually racial weapons (like a moonblade, dwarven rune axe), since those usually come with some nice properties and they are keen. Still, a keened masterly damask scimmy will be better in the long run, but getting that is hilariously difficult.

But those are just the mechanics. If you like the way a bastard sword looks or just want to rp a warrior who is just fond of the massive thing, then by all means go ahead :D

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Tarkus the dog
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Re: Some Weaponmaster Questions

Post by Tarkus the dog » Wed Jun 19, 2019 11:36 pm

20 fighter 7 wm 3 rogue is the norm, but you can also rock the 16 WM variant. Trade off is one more AB for a feat and 1 AC ( which you can get back with Shield spell), if I'm not mistaken. Scimitar all the way. Also for two-handers (short races), greatword if medium ( or scythe, high risk high reward kinda stuff ). Bastard sword hits hard when -twohanding, but the whole shtick of playing a wm is having the good threat range.

Also this whenever you forget: https://nwn.fandom.com/wiki/Threat_range

Vogar Eol
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Re: Some Weaponmaster Questions

Post by Vogar Eol » Thu Jun 20, 2019 12:07 am

Classically I enjoy high WM levels for the bonus feats that allow multiple weapons of choice (if prerequisite feats are taken first) on levels 13, 16, and 19 WM.

In real life I enjoy the fencing style in the tradition of the 14th-century master Johannes Liechtenauer. In roleplay, knowing the terms and being able to talk about them adds a lot to the feel of a WM. These old masters though trained in several weapons, such as daggers and spears, as well as in and out of armor, and even unarmed.

So I try and build that way. A pretty reasonable WM can be made for 3 weapons if I remember correctly. I know the max on a level 40 server was 7, but 5 was much more practical. Right now I’m aiming for 3 Weapons of Choice, and maybe some monk levels. Something like maybe 8 Fighter / 19 WM / 3 Monk. Feat starved I know.

Would dagger, spear, bastardsword be an okay combo for the roleplay server? Maybe Morningstar, Halbert, and Bastardsword?

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Tarkus the dog
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Re: Some Weaponmaster Questions

Post by Tarkus the dog » Thu Jun 20, 2019 12:36 am

if you want an optimal character pick one weapon and stick to it. Arelith is a roleplaying server but late game PvE asks for decently built characters.

Vogar Eol
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Re: Some Weaponmaster Questions

Post by Vogar Eol » Thu Jun 20, 2019 1:59 am

Pulling out a planning spreadsheet, it looks like only two weapons are practical.

That’s putting a build something like 14 F / 13 WM / 3 something. Looks about 40 AB on a plain weapon, depending on race and strength. Not much in way of disarm/knockdown/called-shot though....

What’s the lower end of playable end game AB and AC thereshold for PvE?

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Tarkus the dog
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Re: Some Weaponmaster Questions

Post by Tarkus the dog » Thu Jun 20, 2019 2:14 am

Most weaponmaster builds end up around with 564 HP when fully buffed ( 594 toughness humans, 624 on dwarves ), 48 ab ( or 49) , and around 62AC (63 for wild elves/orogs). AC is in improved expertise.

Vogar Eol
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Re: Some Weaponmaster Questions

Post by Vogar Eol » Thu Jun 20, 2019 2:22 am

What’s the per item limit on Abilities? Only seen +1 strength items so far, though they often have an +1 to something else also.

Weapons hit about +3 or 4 AB also, right? Can only do the math on unenchanted items, as I’m not sure what the maximum levels for Str on gear or AB on a weapon are.

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Tarkus the dog
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Re: Some Weaponmaster Questions

Post by Tarkus the dog » Thu Jun 20, 2019 5:31 am

+3 on weapons most weapons ( masterly damask is 6 damage, 3 ab ( plus 1d6 + 4 with elemental essences )), ( some are +4, but most are restricted to certain races or similar) +3 on shield/torso/helmet, (there are some +4 torsos, none on full-plate though) +1ac on boots, no high AC on amulets, people mostly use barskin wands. You can get roughly 7+ on two to three abilities from gear, example: STR, CON, Fortitude, +2 discipline, +2 spellcrafting is your usual low-budget weaponmaster gear. Place that on each piece and you get +7 STR, CON, Fortitude, 14 discipline, 14 spellcrafting, for example. 20 fighter gives you 2 soft strength, so now you only need 3 from a buff in order to cap strength. Characters on Arelith are very gear + buff dependable, to sum it up.

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Re: Some Weaponmaster Questions

Post by Shadowy Reality » Thu Jun 20, 2019 12:09 pm

For enchanting:

+str/+con/+uni/+disc is still a god saveable 5% iirc and a better alternative to +fort/+spellcraft as you can still rune it for something else. Over 7 pieces thats 7 Uni saves, vs 7 Fort + 2 uni saves that +spellcraft gives.

You can easily hit the +12 cap on Str and Con, so you can count on them in your calculations.

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Tarkus the dog
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Re: Some Weaponmaster Questions

Post by Tarkus the dog » Thu Jun 20, 2019 6:16 pm

+str/+con/+uni/+disc is still a god saveable 5%
Hell I wish.

Vogar Eol
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Re: Some Weaponmaster Questions

Post by Vogar Eol » Thu Jun 20, 2019 6:39 pm

Why do you both reference only seven pieces of equipment? Depending on how you count, I’d think there’s 9 or 11 wear locations. Only seven of them enchantable with abilities?

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Tarkus the dog
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Re: Some Weaponmaster Questions

Post by Tarkus the dog » Thu Jun 20, 2019 6:42 pm

It's because you don't enchant shields, torsos and helmets unless you're a cleric or a character with EMA ( since this allows you to get armor on those pieces with spells ). You make them with forging ( or tailoring for some torsos ). The enchanting basin only allows you to place +1 ac.

Vogar Eol
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Re: Some Weaponmaster Questions

Post by Vogar Eol » Thu Jun 20, 2019 6:59 pm

Thank you for all the information so far. Been pouring over the forum, wiki, the nwn1 wiki and the old wiki talks. Still a lot that I’m trying to update myself on.

Found that item hidden among ore chunks. Looks like I took +2 Str, +2 Con, and +6 Spot gifts. Looks like character is playable until I want to sacrifice him. I did take +2 weapon and armor crafting before I learned about the crafting system, and I have Oghma as a deity.

What spread towards forging vs other craft skills would you recommend for a sword and board Str melee?

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Re: Some Weaponmaster Questions

Post by Shadowy Reality » Thu Jun 20, 2019 9:19 pm

Tarkus the dog wrote:
Thu Jun 20, 2019 6:16 pm
+str/+con/+uni/+disc is still a god saveable 5%
Hell I wish.
Are you sure? I could swear I did this on my last character and I had God saves, but that was a while ago.
Vogar Eol wrote:
Thu Jun 20, 2019 6:59 pm
Thank you for all the information so far. Been pouring over the forum, wiki, the nwn1 wiki and the old wiki talks. Still a lot that I’m trying to update myself on.

Found that item hidden among ore chunks. Looks like I took +2 Str, +2 Con, and +6 Spot gifts. Looks like character is playable until I want to sacrifice him. I did take +2 weapon and armor crafting before I learned about the crafting system, and I have Oghma as a deity.

What spread towards forging vs other craft skills would you recommend for a sword and board Str melee?
Your gifts are good. Crafting skills are mostly irrelevant, you can entirely ignore the whole system if you want. There is a practical argument for both Tailoring and Forging, so you can repair your own gear. But bear in mind, even fully invested in Forging you will generally not be able to craft level-appropriate gear, you will have to rely on other crafters. That said this thread might be interesting.

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Tarkus the dog
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Re: Some Weaponmaster Questions

Post by Tarkus the dog » Thu Jun 20, 2019 10:15 pm

CON, STR, UNI is a hard 5%, pretty sure.

strong yeet
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Re: Some Weaponmaster Questions

Post by strong yeet » Fri Jun 21, 2019 11:55 pm

Tarkus the dog wrote:
Thu Jun 20, 2019 10:15 pm
CON, STR, UNI is a hard 5%, pretty sure.
It absolutely is hard 5%. Universal save is roughly equal to another ability score bonus.

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Re: Some Weaponmaster Questions

Post by Zaravella » Mon Jun 24, 2019 8:10 am

I play a Bastard Sword Weaponmaster... a 20/7/3 classic combo... she aint the most optimal as I could make her... she is a human. If she was an orog, she would be optimal. But she can survive most dungeons that the writs would take you to... I could solo most of them with her when I was still grinding to 30.

When I first made her I spread my trade skills through all the trade crafts with a concentration on Forging. Result is that she could make most weapons up to Mithril.. and then she can also make her own Heal kits, pies of restorations, barkskin potions and all the temporary 1d6 essences she would need on her sword.


For her adamantine equipment, she bought it all, cuz its easy to earn a load of gold if you do a lot of dungeons ... solo.

Ive always had fun with her. She usually hangs around Sibayad, if you want a buddy. There are very few bastard-sword and board WMs around.. she would help a fellow WM im sure.... Name is Zaravella. :)
"Power is not revealed by striking hard or striking often; But by striking true."
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Opustus
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Re: Some Weaponmaster Questions

Post by Opustus » Mon Jun 24, 2019 8:40 pm

Btw, how great would it be if subsequent Weapons of Choice were given the same weapon feats as the first one has? Friggin great.
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Vogar Eol
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Re: Some Weaponmaster Questions

Post by Vogar Eol » Tue Jun 25, 2019 5:46 am

Just saw the rogue rapier + dagger changes. I can see an 11 Rogue / 13 WM / 6 Fighter build with both as Weapons of Choice and dual feats.

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Re: Some Weaponmaster Questions

Post by Seekeepeek » Tue Jun 25, 2019 5:58 am

Vogar Eol wrote:
Tue Jun 25, 2019 5:46 am
Just saw the rogue rapier + dagger changes. I can see an 11 Rogue / 13 WM / 6 Fighter build with both as Weapons of Choice and dual feats.
The only exception for weapon feats that are not automatically granted are the Weapon Master feats.

Vogar Eol
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Re: Some Weaponmaster Questions

Post by Vogar Eol » Tue Jun 25, 2019 6:26 am

I understand that, however taking weapon focus in the second weapon before WM level 13 will open up Weapon of Choice which -will- apply the normal Weapon Master crit range and modifier feats. Rogue and Fighter would do the focus, improved crit, and specialization. End result should be a character with Epic feats in Rapier and dagger.

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Re: Some Weaponmaster Questions

Post by Opustus » Tue Jun 25, 2019 12:00 pm

It's clearly the workable idea, but I'd really want to be able to focus in two wholly different weapons with distinct functionalities, like a hammer for bludgeoning and shielding and a halberd for pierce/slash and twohanding. Rapier and dagger or shortsword and dagger have very similar functionalities; for dualwielding purposes, you could simply go two shortswords as medium or two daggers as small sized.
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Vogar Eol
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Re: Some Weaponmaster Questions

Post by Vogar Eol » Tue Jun 25, 2019 6:38 pm

On Excel spreadsheet I was able to do two weapons using a 14 Fighter / 13 WM / 3 Rogue build, but it was incredibly tight. Made me miss 40 level servers back in the day. On Aertheca I use to run a 10 Fighter / 30 WM with all feats and epic feats in dagger, bastardsword, heavy flail.

Here I’d think Halbert + Morningstar. It ends at about 41 AB + weapon AB + strength soft cap, for about 50 AB +/- a point or two depending on gear and race. From an RP perspective though, I think Rapier + Dagger, or a dwarf with Waraxe + Greataxe is simply fun.

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