Con/Str monk

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DarknessOfDespair
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Con/Str monk

Post by DarknessOfDespair » Fri Apr 26, 2019 5:06 pm

Just been toying with the idea since the update, pure unarmed monk that ends with ~21 str and 21 con. All 3 epic dmg reduc, maybe energy resist. Saving throw feats, including luck of heroes and strong soul at level 1. Ends with around 600 health, 34 ab and I think it was 26 ac with no buffs or magic items. Any ideas/suggestions/opinions?

Shadowy Reality
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Re: Con/Str monk

Post by Shadowy Reality » Fri Apr 26, 2019 5:54 pm

While it is an interesting concept, it is bound to fail.

You are going to have a terrible experience in both PvE and PvP. Leveling is going to be a slow a frustrating grind, everything will hit you and you have absolutely no damage mitigation during most levels. In PvPyour HP is going to be chewed up in 2 rounds by anything that targets AC, note that WMs deal 100+ per crit, even with 1000 HP, thats only 10 crits.

The worst thing is... it is not even very good. Your AB will be average at best, your damage output likewise. The 9/- DR isnt going to be enough to offset any of these issues. At best you will be good at resisting spells due to SR and saves, but a traditional pure Dex Monk would have the same.

Astral
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Re: Con/Str monk

Post by Astral » Fri Apr 26, 2019 6:08 pm

Dont do it man. Please.
Currently playing: Seth Xylo

JubJub
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Re: Con/Str monk

Post by JubJub » Fri Apr 26, 2019 6:53 pm

Like a Barb if your ac is going to be so low you are going to want a lot of damage and a really good AB.

Not Enough Skillpoints
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Re: Con/Str monk

Post by Not Enough Skillpoints » Fri Apr 26, 2019 7:39 pm

All right. This felt like a challenge so I decided to dive in and see if it can actually work. Contrary to the original idea, though, I feel it works best as a Dwarf. You will also need a number of lesser or mid-grade runes for tri-statting, with the end game goal being Disc / Tristat on most items. Note that you'll be doing a lot of potion-chugging. Get a transmutation friend if possible.

BRAVE MAN [Shield/Gold Dwarf or Duergar] {Gift of CON, then Gift of STR if Shield/Gold Dwarf}

STR 16 [18] -> 24
DEX 10
CON 18 [20] -> 21
INT 14
WIS 10
CHA 8 [6, or 4]

Monk 1: Luck of Heroes
Monk 3: Expertise
Monk 6: Imp. Expertise
Monk 9: WF: Unarmed
Monk 12: Blind Fight
Monk 15: Toughness
Monk 18: {Free Feat - Saves? Power Attack?}
Monk 21: Armor Skin
Monk 24: Epic Damage Reduction 3/-
Monk 25: Epic Damage Reduction 6/-
Monk 27: Epic Damage Reduction 9/-
Monk 30: Epic Prowess, ESF Discipline

Stats:
Monk 4: +1 STR
Monk 8: +1 STR
Monk 12: +1 STR
Monk 16: +1 STR
Monk 20: +1 STR
Monk 24: +1 CON
Monk 28: +1 STR

Gearing (Stretch Goals in Brackets):
Chest: Disciple's Garb- +2 WIS, +1 STR [Masterwork Rune: +1 CON]
Amulet: +2 CON amulet, add +1 STR via Basin, then +1 WIS via Lesser Rune
Gauntlet: Disciple's Wraps- +2 WIS, +1 CON via Runic property
Cloak: +1 STR, +1 WIS, +1 CON through lesser rune. [Sergeant's Cloak: +1 STR/CON, +3 Disc, +1 WIS through Masterwork Rune]
Rings 1 & 2: +1 STR, +1 WIS, +1 CON through lesser runes. [Basin then Greater Rune: +2 Disc]
Belt: +1 STR, +1 WIS, +1 CON through lesser rune. [Basin then Greater Rune: +2 Disc]
Boots: +1 STR, +1 CON, +1 AC through lesser rune. [Tristat + AC]
Helmet: Adamantium [Rune for +1 STR]
Gear Totals: 8 WIS, 7 STR [8 via stretch], 7 CON [8 via stretch]. This puts you in reach of maximizing STR/WIS/CON via potions, with a STR Skleen making things easier.

I went with WIS as the third stat instead of DEX, so stun fists would be more potent.

AB: 45 [20 BAB + 13 STR + 5 Ki Strike + 3 Katana + 3 WF + 1 Prowess]
AC: 42, 46 Hasted, 56 I.E. [10 Base + 2 DEX + 6 WIS + 6 Monk + 6 Tumble + 3 Cloth + 3 Deflect + 3 Nat Armor + 2 Armor Skin + 1 Boots]
Defenses: Epic Dodge, 9/- DR, 600 HP. Using either a katana or unarmed, can deflect 1 arrow a round. You also have enough skill points to get trash stealth (cornerstealth during panic moments in PvE), plus Disc, Tumble, Heal, and Listen.
Misc: Can use a 2H Katana damage w/ +13 STR against high AC targets, or Unarmed in Flurry.


At the end of the day, I'm not sure if I'd actually recommend this to anyone. It'll take a ton of work to get off the ground. But, depending on how much pain you'd be willing to go through, it might work. And, as pointed out, a barbarian tends to do the STR/CON schtick better. If a buff monk that takes hits and gives no shits is your jam, though, there you go.

Feel free to correct any of my math above. I'm sure I also missed some esoteric gearing that'll make things work better.

Edit: Forgot Monk gets another bonus feat at 30. Added ESF Discipline.
Last edited by Not Enough Skillpoints on Fri Apr 26, 2019 9:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Harkath
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Re: Con/Str monk

Post by Harkath » Fri Apr 26, 2019 8:29 pm

Is there a reason this build can't be some sort of dwarven defender with a UMD dump somewhere?

Hell, monk/DD/bard wouldn't be great necessarily but it'd be better than pure 30 EDR monk.

Not Enough Skillpoints
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Joined: Sun Nov 27, 2016 3:04 pm

Re: Con/Str monk

Post by Not Enough Skillpoints » Fri Apr 26, 2019 8:37 pm

Harkath wrote:
Fri Apr 26, 2019 8:29 pm
Is there a reason this build can't be some sort of dwarven defender with a UMD dump somewhere?

Hell, monk/DD/bard wouldn't be great necessarily but it'd be better than pure 30 EDR monk.
I feel if you're a Dwarven Defender going for EDR, you're better off dumping Monk and wearing armor.

DarknessOfDespair
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Joined: Fri May 27, 2016 2:13 am

Re: Con/Str monk

Post by DarknessOfDespair » Sat Apr 27, 2019 3:07 am

I probably should have added, I don't play alone, ever. I will have a full supporting cast. But I appreciate your input. I might so one of the obvious maximized builds down the line, but it's new and I'd like to have some fun :)

DarknessOfDespair
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Joined: Fri May 27, 2016 2:13 am

Re: Con/Str monk

Post by DarknessOfDespair » Sat Apr 27, 2019 3:08 am

One of those friends will be an ESF transmutation wizard as well, so I'd imagine 4 soft caps would be easily manageable, as well

Poolbrain
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Re: Con/Str monk

Post by Poolbrain » Sun Apr 28, 2019 8:29 am

Not Enough Skillpoints wrote:
Fri Apr 26, 2019 7:39 pm
All right. This felt like a challenge so I decided to dive in and see if it can actually work. Contrary to the original idea, though, I feel it works best as a Dwarf. You will also need a number of lesser or mid-grade runes for tri-statting, with the end game goal being Disc / Tristat on most items. Note that you'll be doing a lot of potion-chugging. Get a transmutation friend if possible.

BRAVE MAN [Shield/Gold Dwarf or Duergar] {Gift of CON, then Gift of STR if Shield/Gold Dwarf}

STR 16 [18] -> 24
DEX 10
CON 18 [20] -> 21
INT 14
WIS 10
CHA 8 [6, or 4]

Monk 1: Luck of Heroes
Monk 3: Expertise
Monk 6: Imp. Expertise
Monk 9: WF: Unarmed
Monk 12: Blind Fight
Monk 15: Toughness
Monk 18: {Free Feat - Saves? Power Attack?}
Monk 21: Armor Skin
Monk 24: Epic Damage Reduction 3/-
Monk 25: Epic Damage Reduction 6/-
Monk 27: Epic Damage Reduction 9/-
Monk 30: Epic Prowess, ESF Discipline

Stats:
Monk 4: +1 STR
Monk 8: +1 STR
Monk 12: +1 STR
Monk 16: +1 STR
Monk 20: +1 STR
Monk 24: +1 CON
Monk 28: +1 STR

Gearing (Stretch Goals in Brackets):
Chest: Disciple's Garb- +2 WIS, +1 STR [Masterwork Rune: +1 CON]
Amulet: +2 CON amulet, add +1 STR via Basin, then +1 WIS via Lesser Rune
Gauntlet: Disciple's Wraps- +2 WIS, +1 CON via Runic property
Cloak: +1 STR, +1 WIS, +1 CON through lesser rune. [Sergeant's Cloak: +1 STR/CON, +3 Disc, +1 WIS through Masterwork Rune]
Rings 1 & 2: +1 STR, +1 WIS, +1 CON through lesser runes. [Basin then Greater Rune: +2 Disc]
Belt: +1 STR, +1 WIS, +1 CON through lesser rune. [Basin then Greater Rune: +2 Disc]
Boots: +1 STR, +1 CON, +1 AC through lesser rune. [Tristat + AC]
Helmet: Adamantium [Rune for +1 STR]
Gear Totals: 8 WIS, 7 STR [8 via stretch], 7 CON [8 via stretch]. This puts you in reach of maximizing STR/WIS/CON via potions, with a STR Skleen making things easier.

I went with WIS as the third stat instead of DEX, so stun fists would be more potent.

AB: 45 [20 BAB + 13 STR + 5 Ki Strike + 3 Katana + 3 WF + 1 Prowess]
AC: 42, 46 Hasted, 56 I.E. [10 Base + 2 DEX + 6 WIS + 6 Monk + 6 Tumble + 3 Cloth + 3 Deflect + 3 Nat Armor + 2 Armor Skin + 1 Boots]
Defenses: Epic Dodge, 9/- DR, 600 HP. Using either a katana or unarmed, can deflect 1 arrow a round. You also have enough skill points to get trash stealth (cornerstealth during panic moments in PvE), plus Disc, Tumble, Heal, and Listen.
Misc: Can use a 2H Katana damage w/ +13 STR against high AC targets, or Unarmed in Flurry.


At the end of the day, I'm not sure if I'd actually recommend this to anyone. It'll take a ton of work to get off the ground. But, depending on how much pain you'd be willing to go through, it might work. And, as pointed out, a barbarian tends to do the STR/CON schtick better. If a buff monk that takes hits and gives no shits is your jam, though, there you go.

Feel free to correct any of my math above. I'm sure I also missed some esoteric gearing that'll make things work better.

Edit: Forgot Monk gets another bonus feat at 30. Added ESF Discipline.
Monks get +1 ac every fifth level too. That 5 more ac. Also maxing dex through gear than con would give more survivability too. You'd end up at 49-50 ac before imp expertisea.

Not Enough Skillpoints
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Joined: Sun Nov 27, 2016 3:04 pm

Re: Con/Str monk

Post by Not Enough Skillpoints » Sun Apr 28, 2019 7:55 pm

Poolbrain wrote:
Sun Apr 28, 2019 8:29 am
Monks get +1 ac every fifth level too. That 5 more ac. Also maxing dex through gear than con would give more survivability too. You'd end up at 49-50 ac before imp expertisea.
I counted Monk AC, as you can see in the tabulations. It's actually 6 AC from a pure 30 monk.

You could do DEX instead of CON to push your AC up a few points, but having ~450 HP didn't strike me as all that great for an EDR build. Quad-statting is... something, but at that point you're talking about %5 plus masterwork rune to get decent Disc / saves, or living next to a trans wizard 24/7.

And I usually don't assess a class and its gearing options based on outside buffs. Otherwise, every melee class should be counted as having more AC from their cleric friend using Vestment.

DarknessOfDespair
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Joined: Fri May 27, 2016 2:13 am

Re: Con/Str monk

Post by DarknessOfDespair » Thu May 02, 2019 12:15 am

I appreciate you crunching the numbers, and in the case of not calculating outside spells that makes sense. Just wanted to point out that It didn't need to necessarily be soloing 90% of the server. I'll play it out, see how it goes :)

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