Your Monk Builds Ideas

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Astral
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Your Monk Builds Ideas

Post by Astral » Thu Apr 18, 2019 8:21 pm

So I havent cracked down any numbers and havent tested anything on PGCC cause this update didnt go live there yet(?)

What are your thoughts on the new options? On top of my head I'm thinking pure str monk with two-hand katana. Not sure how good it's going to look on the defense side of things but it does get epic dodge for free and 6 ac from monk lvls. Could be interesting to look at. Another thing I'm looking at is 23 monk 7 wm, full glass cannon, again with two-hand katana str based. But this could all be junk because this is alien territory for me right now.

Your thoughts and ideas please!
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Peppermint
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Re: Your Monk Builds Ideas

Post by Peppermint » Thu Apr 18, 2019 10:06 pm

This is basically what you want to do, yeah. Monk 20/Rogue 3/WM 7 works due to katana buffs and the glut of free feats monks receive. You'll have a rough early game, but once you get going you're basically just a better version of the traditional 20/7/3 weapon master. You're not as glass cannony as you might think; monk bonuses put you in the area of ~50 AC before expertise is applied.

Unarmed monks play basically the same as before (and will build similarly), but still aren't comparable to other melee classes. Moreover, they can no longer lean on their ability to kite.

Astral
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Re: Your Monk Builds Ideas

Post by Astral » Thu Apr 18, 2019 10:52 pm

Peppermint wrote:
Thu Apr 18, 2019 10:06 pm
This is basically what you want to do, yeah. Monk 20/Rogue 3/WM 7 works due to katana buffs and the glut of free feats monks receive. You'll have a rough early game, but once you get going you're basically just a better version of the traditional 20/7/3 weapon master. You're not as glass cannony as you might think; monk bonuses put you in the area of ~50 AC before expertise is applied.

Unarmed monks play basically the same as before (and will build similarly), but still aren't comparable to other melee classes. Moreover, they can no longer lean on their ability to kite.
Normal builds before this update cannot kite anymore unless they just run and wait the other person's haste spell and their damage is still low for pvp. I think this 20/7/3 monk is indeed the new deal cause it's basically an offensive build to replace the old one who was more defensive and relied on kiting.
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Tarkus the dog
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Re: Your Monk Builds Ideas

Post by Tarkus the dog » Fri Apr 19, 2019 12:43 am

Devs might want to reconsider the monk katana changes. Yes, it has something to do with going monk weaponmaster.

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Kenji
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Re: Your Monk Builds Ideas

Post by Kenji » Fri Apr 19, 2019 2:13 am

Tarkus the dog wrote:
Fri Apr 19, 2019 12:43 am
Devs might want to reconsider the monk katana changes. Yes, it has something to do with going monk weaponmaster.
But how are we going to have Saumrai Jacks on the server otherwise?

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Peppermint
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Re: Your Monk Builds Ideas

Post by Peppermint » Fri Apr 19, 2019 2:23 am

Tarkus the dog wrote:
Fri Apr 19, 2019 12:43 am
Devs might want to reconsider the monk katana changes. Yes, it has something to do with going monk weaponmaster.
Oh, it's not even just weapon masters. That's just the first thing that comes to mind.

Monk/Paladins are looking pretty nutty, too. I'm sure those aren't the only builds that will crop up.

Monks have effectively been turned into a full AB class with solid base damage and crit range as well as a metric ton of APR, thanks to ki strike adjustments and the addition of monk katanas.

That said, I predict either ki strike will be nerfed or monk synergy with katanas will be removed. Presumably the latter, as unarmed monks really don't need nerfs, and it doesn't feel uniquely thematic anyway.

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Ebonstar
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Re: Your Monk Builds Ideas

Post by Ebonstar » Fri Apr 19, 2019 4:46 am

but katana peasant monks did exist so why not have them

besides having something else as a viable WM would be good for a diversity standpoint

and looking at the way it was rolled out together, means it was thought about
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Kenji
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Re: Your Monk Builds Ideas

Post by Kenji » Fri Apr 19, 2019 5:18 am

With all the high APR builds running amuck, acid sheathe and mord's scrolls will be even more popular!

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Jagel
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Re: Your Monk Builds Ideas

Post by Jagel » Fri Apr 19, 2019 6:52 am

Just bear in mind that going 20/7/3 cuts you out of the free weapon spec feats + epic weapon spec feats. This is not insignifacent when comparing to the cookie cutter wm. Standard wms can also dumpstat both wis and dex which is slightly more problematic for a monk.

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MissEvelyn
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Re: Your Monk Builds Ideas

Post by MissEvelyn » Fri Apr 19, 2019 9:03 am

I like the new Monk bonuses, but I do feel like they should not be able to work if the Monk is wearing armor.


Astral
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Re: Your Monk Builds Ideas

Post by Astral » Fri Apr 19, 2019 11:25 am

Peppermint wrote:
Fri Apr 19, 2019 2:23 am
Tarkus the dog wrote:
Fri Apr 19, 2019 12:43 am
Devs might want to reconsider the monk katana changes. Yes, it has something to do with going monk weaponmaster.
Oh, it's not even just weapon masters. That's just the first thing that comes to mind.

Monk/Paladins are looking pretty nutty, too. I'm sure those aren't the only builds that will crop up.

Monks have effectively been turned into a full AB class with solid base damage and crit range as well as a metric ton of APR, thanks to ki strike adjustments and the addition of monk katanas.

That said, I predict either ki strike will be nerfed or monk synergy with katanas will be removed. Presumably the latter, as unarmed monks really don't need nerfs, and it doesn't feel uniquely thematic anyway.
I did mention on another thread before the update "lvl 28 monk perks" that adding too much ab will put monks in the territory of rogues/bards (which is the case here). Add monk bab and apr progressions and it's too strong. I agree that fist monks arent op with how things are cause previously they were obsolete in pvp entirely AND because unarmed monks dont get weapon focus and imp crit for free. So my suggestion would be to make it so the Ki strike bonus to ab and damage can only stack with gloves and not with weapons (yes, it would open a window for bronze katanas with more damage but still less ab). Over all these katana monks are going to have either low ac, low damage or no umd. So there is still a trade off at least.
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Opustus
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Re: Your Monk Builds Ideas

Post by Opustus » Fri Apr 19, 2019 1:22 pm

Omg, they went kind of all-in with the buffs.

Pure monk can now take Self concealment for 30% and has spell resistance up the arse. I would definitely do that if I went pure, anyhow.

I think the katana buffs just render kama obsolete. Hail your new champion, the Katana Rogue/Monk/Fighter as 19/6/4, 16/9/5, or 13/12/5.

As for the WM build, the pre-reqs are still 6 feats, which is a tall order for nonhuman and non-fighter builds. If Kensai still were available, I'd love to build some monstrous STR Kensai Monk4/Fighter7/WM19.

Monk/Paladin may be viable, but it's very gimpy and the update really brings nothing to resolve its problems, i.e. difficulty in getting CHA and WIS.
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Re: Your Monk Builds Ideas

Post by yellowcateyes » Fri Apr 19, 2019 2:07 pm

MissEvelyn wrote:
Fri Apr 19, 2019 9:03 am
I like the new Monk bonuses, but I do feel like they should not be able to work if the Monk is wearing armor.
Aside from the feats granted, the new monk bonuses (Speed and AB/Damage progression) do not work when wearing armor and wielding a shield.

Also, as in vanilla NWN, a weapon will not enjoy monk UBAB unless the monk is unarmored.

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Opustus
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Re: Your Monk Builds Ideas

Post by Opustus » Fri Apr 19, 2019 2:17 pm

Oh. The ruffian build with club for wild dwarf: STR Monk6/Rogue20/Fighter4. Glorious! The total lack of armor may hurt, though.
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blksabbath74
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Re: Your Monk Builds Ideas

Post by blksabbath74 » Fri Apr 19, 2019 6:43 pm

I was thinking a Con based Monk that could get EDR 1-3 to stack with (and compensate for) their 20/+1 damage reduction...but not sure it will work...

Really wanting to go Monk 30, regardless...for the Blinding Speed and Epic Dodge...but might go the WM route...we'll see...waiting for posts to come up.

Archnon
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Re: Your Monk Builds Ideas

Post by Archnon » Fri Apr 19, 2019 6:55 pm

Monk 30, and grab the spell resistance feat 4 times. 48 spell resistance puts your odds of blocking any spell caster with a dip at near 100%. Pure casters only get a 10% chance of hitting you, barring spell penetration. That plus the monk saves naturally would leave you pretty immune from casters.

Harkath
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Re: Your Monk Builds Ideas

Post by Harkath » Fri Apr 19, 2019 11:16 pm

1) Ki Strike bonus progression is as follows: Every Ki Strike and Improved Ki Strike feat is now accompanied by increases to damage or attack bonus. Every odd feat is accompanied by +1 Bludgeoning Damage (1st, 3rd, and 5th Ki Strike feats). Every even feat is accompanied by +1 AB (2nd and 4th feats) These bonuses only apply when unarmed or wielding a Monk proficiency melee weapon, or a katana. At level 24, monks gain a further +1 AB. At level 28, they gain a further +2 AB and +3 Bludgeoning damage.
So a loss of 3 AB if you go 20 monk only. Thoughts on the above setups or new ones?

Astral
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Re: Your Monk Builds Ideas

Post by Astral » Sat Apr 20, 2019 12:03 am

Harkath wrote:
Fri Apr 19, 2019 11:16 pm
1) Ki Strike bonus progression is as follows: Every Ki Strike and Improved Ki Strike feat is now accompanied by increases to damage or attack bonus. Every odd feat is accompanied by +1 Bludgeoning Damage (1st, 3rd, and 5th Ki Strike feats). Every even feat is accompanied by +1 AB (2nd and 4th feats) These bonuses only apply when unarmed or wielding a Monk proficiency melee weapon, or a katana. At level 24, monks gain a further +1 AB. At level 28, they gain a further +2 AB and +3 Bludgeoning damage.
So a loss of 3 AB if you go 20 monk only. Thoughts on the above setups or new ones?
30 monk city. But no Umd really sucks on monks despite all their cookies, I personally still lean towards dex based 20/10 or str based 20monk/7wm/3rogue.
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Re: Your Monk Builds Ideas

Post by Alantar » Sat Apr 20, 2019 12:28 am

Archnon wrote:
Fri Apr 19, 2019 6:55 pm
Monk 30, and grab the spell resistance feat 4 times. 48 spell resistance puts your odds of blocking any spell caster with a dip at near 100%. Pure casters only get a 10% chance of hitting you, barring spell penetration. That plus the monk saves naturally would leave you pretty immune from casters.
The Acid Sheath might be a problem for a pure monk, though.

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Re: Your Monk Builds Ideas

Post by JubJub » Sat Apr 20, 2019 2:02 pm

Alantar wrote:
Sat Apr 20, 2019 12:28 am
Archnon wrote:
Fri Apr 19, 2019 6:55 pm
Monk 30, and grab the spell resistance feat 4 times. 48 spell resistance puts your odds of blocking any spell caster with a dip at near 100%. Pure casters only get a 10% chance of hitting you, barring spell penetration. That plus the monk saves naturally would leave you pretty immune from casters.
The Acid Sheath might be a problem for a pure monk, though.
Earth gensai Monk. Only issue is taking 4 sr feats is going to leave you vulnerable to something else. The 48 sr build maybe good for something like a Shar worshipping mage killer, who's main goal is to kill non shar mages.

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garrbear758
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Re: Your Monk Builds Ideas

Post by garrbear758 » Tue Apr 23, 2019 8:51 am

Half orc 30 str monk? Gets ambidexterity for free so you can pump up strength and split the rest between dex/wis.

Dual wield disciples kamas? Will have 9 attacks per round while blinding speed is up and 8 otherwise.

AC should still be around 50 before expertise. AB looks like it would be low 40s but I may be doing the math wrong.

Can furry of blows be used with the club and/or katana?

Also, would taking weapon focus unarmed be a good idea? You should have plenty of extra non-epic feats, and it'd give you the option of switching to fists when needed to beat /+5 DR
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BoltNRun
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Re: Your Monk Builds Ideas

Post by BoltNRun » Tue Apr 23, 2019 8:54 pm

Just curious but how would a Monk/Wm/? that focuses in kamas and DEX fair? Like would it be pretty good damage and AC or not possible?

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Re: Your Monk Builds Ideas

Post by JubJub » Wed Apr 24, 2019 3:17 am

Still seems odd you get free epic wf unarmed but not the normal wf unarmed. I suspect only unarmed and Kama can be flurry of blows,

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garrbear758
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Re: Your Monk Builds Ideas

Post by garrbear758 » Wed Apr 24, 2019 4:53 am

I agree. You have so many extra feats though that the one doesnt hurt.

After looking into it, flurry of blows is definitely just kama and unarmed. They would have to go into that feat and specifically make it work with the other weapons, which I highly doubt they did without having it as part of the announcement.
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Re: Your Monk Builds Ideas

Post by Gonagul » Sun Apr 28, 2019 5:03 am

Peppermint wrote:
Thu Apr 18, 2019 10:06 pm
This is basically what you want to do, yeah. Monk 20/Rogue 3/WM 7 works due to katana buffs and the glut of free feats monks receive. You'll have a rough early game, but once you get going you're basically just a better version of the traditional 20/7/3 weapon master. You're not as glass cannony as you might think; monk bonuses put you in the area of ~50 AC before expertise is applied.

Unarmed monks play basically the same as before (and will build similarly), but still aren't comparable to other melee classes. Moreover, they can no longer lean on their ability to kite.
For folks like myself who are terrible at builds/can't seem to get a character builder template to work on my computer-- how would the level breakdown look for the 20/7/3?

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