Monk QS question
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Monk QS question
Re: Monk QS question
"You shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free."
Garrbear wrote:quite bluntly we can't balance the server around people who don't play well
Irongron wrote:My main takeaway from this is that Jack is apparently personable
Re: Monk QS question
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Re: Monk QS question
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Re: Monk QS question
If you're doing 19 rogue levels then 6 monk/5 fighter seems best to me. 6 monk is a speed boost and free KD/imp KD feats and you can still get epic weapon specialization. Or is there a reason you'd do 5 monk and 6 fighter instead?Baron Saturday wrote: ↑Tue Mar 26, 2019 5:54 amIf I were to make a QS "monk" at this point, it would probably only have 4-5 levels of monk (depending on how much I want that +1 monk AC). For the rest I would do something along the lines of 21 ranger/4-5 rogue or 6 fighter/19 rogue. Nothing amazing here, but either way would be a reasonably playable Dex melee character.
Re: Monk QS question
18 rogue, 6 monk, 6 fighter used to be a thing but due to rogue buffs, removing the monk for more rogue lvls and going rapier+dagger is objectively stronger.
Re: Monk QS question
This really isn't a good split. You don't get Improved Dual-Wielding or Improved Two-Weapon Fighting, which are both objectively necessary on any dual-wielding build.
While tracking and trackless step are nice, the loss of 6 damage (4 vs. the 3 FEs you can get), an entire APR at second-to-top AB, and the loss of 1-3 feats that you can use makes it not worthwhile.
As others have said, the best option for Monk in its current state is to do no more than 6 levels for the IKD and 20% movement speed increase. If you're so inclined you may be able to bump that up to 9 depending on the build, though to diminishing returns.
If you're hard-set on doing 20 Monk levels and using a Quarterstaff, I guess you could do the old 21 Monk/6 Fighter/3 Rogue thing and pick up dual-wielding on it. I don't recommend it, I don't think it'd be particularly good, but yeah.
IMO the best quarterstaff build is the Ranger 21/Monk 3/Assassin 6 (or Ranger 21/Monk 6/[Bard or Rogue] 3 if you don't want to do evil). It gets solid per-hit damage even on a non-sneak due to Favored Enemy and Bane of Enemies, high AB due to being a predominately 1/1 BAB class and +4 from Blade Thirst, has a high HP pool and increased survivability due to the vampiric regeneration from Blade Thirst, higher AC than most builds due to both DEX and WIS being primary stats as well as the dual-wielding AC from Ranger, and (if you go the Assassin route) can inflict an extra 9 damage per hit on -assassinate.
"You shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free."
Garrbear wrote:quite bluntly we can't balance the server around people who don't play well
Irongron wrote:My main takeaway from this is that Jack is apparently personable
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Re: Monk QS question
I just don't like the idea of waiting until epic levels to get KD.Sea Shanties wrote: ↑Tue Mar 26, 2019 7:03 amIf you're doing 19 rogue levels then 6 monk/5 fighter seems best to me. 6 monk is a speed boost and free KD/imp KD feats and you can still get epic weapon specialization. Or is there a reason you'd do 5 monk and 6 fighter instead?
Shelved: Kels Vetian, Cin ys'Andalis, Saul Haidt
Playing: Oshe Jordain
Re: Monk QS question
tbh one of the better splits, because of this, is Rogue (or Assassin) 19/Fighter 8/Monk 3. You get IKD pre-epic still, albeit at the cost of 10% movement speed.Baron Saturday wrote: ↑Tue Mar 26, 2019 3:09 pmI just don't like the idea of waiting until epic levels to get KD.Sea Shanties wrote: ↑Tue Mar 26, 2019 7:03 amIf you're doing 19 rogue levels then 6 monk/5 fighter seems best to me. 6 monk is a speed boost and free KD/imp KD feats and you can still get epic weapon specialization. Or is there a reason you'd do 5 monk and 6 fighter instead?
"You shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free."
Garrbear wrote:quite bluntly we can't balance the server around people who don't play well
Irongron wrote:My main takeaway from this is that Jack is apparently personable
Re: Monk QS question
Re: Monk QS question
And now you understand why high-level Monk isn't that wonderful in any real offensive capability.JubJub wrote: ↑Tue Mar 26, 2019 3:31 pmSo sounds like unarmed is the only real way to go now for anyone wanting to play a monk with more than a few monk lvls? but with stunning fist crap now, is it worth unarmed anymore? If you want to use weapons it sounds like a small dip is the only real way to go.
"You shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free."
Garrbear wrote:quite bluntly we can't balance the server around people who don't play well
Irongron wrote:My main takeaway from this is that Jack is apparently personable
Re: Monk QS question
Well... Not going to argue with Jack about builds. But...Jack Oat wrote: ↑Tue Mar 26, 2019 3:45 pmAnd now you understand why high-level Monk isn't that wonderful in any real offensive capability.JubJub wrote: ↑Tue Mar 26, 2019 3:31 pmSo sounds like unarmed is the only real way to go now for anyone wanting to play a monk with more than a few monk lvls? but with stunning fist crap now, is it worth unarmed anymore? If you want to use weapons it sounds like a small dip is the only real way to go.
Playing a fist monk 20/5/5 as my current main and my damage is 1d20 + 3 str + 2 belt with weapon spec + 4 physical + 4 essence + 1d4 rune. Its MUCH better than it used to be a couple of years back and its not entirely terrible from my personal experience.
Edit: Stunning fist is shit.
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Re: Monk QS question
Makes sense, though between choking powder, darkness wands and inherently lower AB I don't feel like a rogue/monk needs KD as early as a more direct fighter. Still, you'd have to put off that 6th monk or 5th fighter to level 30 which means an awful long wait for either KD or epic weapon specialization.Baron Saturday wrote: ↑Tue Mar 26, 2019 3:09 pmI just don't like the idea of waiting until epic levels to get KD.Sea Shanties wrote: ↑Tue Mar 26, 2019 7:03 amIf you're doing 19 rogue levels then 6 monk/5 fighter seems best to me. 6 monk is a speed boost and free KD/imp KD feats and you can still get epic weapon specialization. Or is there a reason you'd do 5 monk and 6 fighter instead?
Re: Monk QS question
You do 26 damage/hit across 7 APR, hasted with Flurry of Blows turned on, and your top AB is 38 with Flurry of Blows on. I've played several fist-based Monks of differing builds, I know the pain of those builds. I speak from personal experience when I say that they're severely lacking in the "Offensive Capability" department.Astral wrote: ↑Tue Mar 26, 2019 4:31 pmWell... Not going to argue with Jack about builds. But...Jack Oat wrote: ↑Tue Mar 26, 2019 3:45 pmAnd now you understand why high-level Monk isn't that wonderful in any real offensive capability.JubJub wrote: ↑Tue Mar 26, 2019 3:31 pmSo sounds like unarmed is the only real way to go now for anyone wanting to play a monk with more than a few monk lvls? but with stunning fist crap now, is it worth unarmed anymore? If you want to use weapons it sounds like a small dip is the only real way to go.
Playing a fist monk 20/5/5 as my current main and my damage is 1d20 + 3 str + 2 belt with weapon spec + 4 physical + 4 essence + 1d4 rune. Its MUCH better than it used to be a couple of years back and its not entirely terrible from my personal experience.
Edit: Stunning fist is shit.
"You shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free."
Garrbear wrote:quite bluntly we can't balance the server around people who don't play well
Irongron wrote:My main takeaway from this is that Jack is apparently personable
Re: Monk QS question
Thanks in advance.
Re: Monk QS question
STR: 10
DEX: 20 (gift) (28)
CON: 14 (gift)
WIS: 14
INT: 14
CHA: 8
01: Ranger(1): Strong Soul, {Dual Wield}
02: Ranger(2)
03: Ranger(3): weapon finesse
04: Monk(1): DEX+1, {Cleave, Evasion, Improved Unarmed Strike, Stunning Fist}, (DEX=21)
05: Monk(2): {Deflect Arrows}
06: Monk(3): weapon focus: QS
07: Ranger(4)
08: Ranger(5): DEX+1, (DEX=22)
09: Ranger(6): expertise
10: Ranger(7)
11: Ranger(8)
12: Ranger(9): DEX+1, impprove crit, {Improved Two-Weapon Fighting}, (DEX=23)
13: Ranger(10)
14: Ranger(11)
15: Ranger(12): blind fight
16: Ranger(13): DEX+1, (DEX=24)
17: Ranger(14)
18: Ranger(15): impproved expertise.
19: Ranger(16)
20: Ranger(17): DEX+1, (DEX=25)
21: Ranger(18): epic weapon focus
22: Ranger(19)
23: Ranger(20)
24: Ranger(21): DEX+1, bane of enemies, (DEX=26)
25: Monk(4)
26: Monk(5)
27: Monk(6): great dexterity I, {Knockdown, Improved Knockdown}, (DEX=27)
28: Bard(1): DEX+1, (DEX=28)
29: Bard(2)
30: Bard(3): blinding speed or epic: discipline
Re: Monk QS question
Re: Monk QS question
You forgot weapon finesse.Astral wrote: ↑Tue Apr 30, 2019 5:22 amElf
STR: 10
DEX: 20 (gift) (28)
CON: 14 (gift)
WIS: 14
INT: 14
CHA: 8
01: Ranger(1): Strong Soul, {Dual Wield}
02: Ranger(2)
03: Ranger(3): weapon focus: QS
04: Monk(1): DEX+1, {Cleave, Evasion, Improved Unarmed Strike, Stunning Fist}, (DEX=21)
05: Monk(2): {Deflect Arrows}
06: Monk(3): expertise
07: Ranger(4)
08: Ranger(5): DEX+1, (DEX=22)
09: Ranger(6): improved expertise
10: Ranger(7)
11: Ranger(8)
12: Ranger(9): DEX+1, impprove crit, {Improved Two-Weapon Fighting}, (DEX=23)
13: Ranger(10)
14: Ranger(11)
15: Ranger(12): blind fight
16: Ranger(13): DEX+1, (DEX=24)
17: Ranger(14)
18: Ranger(15): toughness or iron will
19: Ranger(16)
20: Ranger(17): DEX+1, (DEX=25)
21: Ranger(18): epic weapon focus
22: Ranger(19)
23: Ranger(20)
24: Ranger(21): DEX+1, bane of enemies, (DEX=26)
25: Monk(4)
26: Monk(5)
27: Monk(6): great dexterity I, {Knockdown, Improved Knockdown}, (DEX=27)
28: Bard(1): DEX+1, (DEX=28)
29: Bard(2)
30: Bard(3): blinding speed or epic: discipline
Re: Monk QS question
I corrected the build accordingly.
Delaying monk till epics is objectively better but in a trade-off it also blooms much later. There's no doubt that it IS better for your bab and quicker BoE if you delay monk till epics.