Do Warlock and Pale Master play well together?

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blksabbath74
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Do Warlock and Pale Master play well together?

Post by blksabbath74 » Fri Jan 04, 2019 3:44 pm

Or because the spells for Warlock are custom, does it not work?

Dragonovith
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Re: Do Warlock and Pale Master play well together?

Post by Dragonovith » Fri Jan 04, 2019 5:39 pm

If you play the Cookie-cutter Melee PM, and change your Bard levels for Fiendlock levels by speaking with certain FOIG NPCs, you'll have an unlimited spell of Bull's Strength (from 4 Warlock levels) that is affected by the PM CL changes (4 CL from Bard and 8 CL from 16 PM levels) that should last you for 12 in-game hours.

But as you can see, you'll have to invest some points in Charisma to be able to cast Bull's Strength. Is it really worth then? Maybe not. It works better if you do a different kind of Melee PM, the Melee PM Blackguard.

This is sort of an obscure synergy between Warlock and Pale Master. I'll leave it up to a better informed player to give you a proper assessment of how well both classes play together.

Freyason
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Re: Do Warlock and Pale Master play well together?

Post by Freyason » Fri Jan 04, 2019 8:08 pm

if you do the above you'll also lower your CL from 30 to 'dispelled by goblin mages"

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Baron Saturday
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Re: Do Warlock and Pale Master play well together?

Post by Baron Saturday » Fri Jan 04, 2019 8:34 pm

PM levels should increase the caster level of warlocks spells. They will NOT qualify you for new warlock spells, however, and I'm pretty sure that they won't have any impact on warlock blast damage.

Generally speaking, it's a bad idea to multclass warlock outside of a 3 level BG dip for saves and Divine Shield.
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Jack Oat
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Re: Do Warlock and Pale Master play well together?

Post by Jack Oat » Fri Jan 04, 2019 9:03 pm

Freyason wrote:
Fri Jan 04, 2019 8:08 pm
if you do the above you'll also lower your CL from 30 to 'dispelled by goblin mages"
this x1000

They do not synergize. At all. Do not do it.

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garrbear758
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Re: Do Warlock and Pale Master play well together?

Post by garrbear758 » Sat Jan 05, 2019 5:44 am

Although Pale master levels will count for your resistance to dispel, they still don't work well together.

PM's biggest advantage is AC and summons.

Warlocks biggest advantage is summons.

You cannot summon undead and the warlock summon at the same time, so you're investing 10+ levels in two classes when you can only use one of their main features at a time. Warlock's final summon requires a 25 level investment, and PM's requires 16.

Additionally, warlock requires high levels to pay off, which is why most people either build pure warlock or 27/3 warlock/bg. Anything outside of that will hurt you more than it helps. Your eldritch blast damage will be very weak for your character level.

If you just want to dip warlock for unlimited bull's strength on a caster PM, you would still be dispel bait. Assuming 10 wizard, 16pm, 4 warlock, you're caster level for warlock in regards to dispels will be 20, which is well below what is needed for PvE and PvP dispels. That would also be a waste, as you could just cast maximized bull's strength as a wizard and it'll last 18 IG hours.

On top of all this, warlock requires CHA for spells, and PM requires INT to get the higher summons. You're going to either hurt your spell DC or your survivability by spreading those around
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Sea Shanties
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Re: Do Warlock and Pale Master play well together?

Post by Sea Shanties » Sat Jan 05, 2019 7:33 am

Although.. 4 bard levels and 4 warlock levels on a 16/10/4 PM/fighter/bard are pretty much interchangeable, aren't they? You aren't going to use the bard song or spells either and that's all you lose for choosing warlock instead.

If the RP warrants a warlock dip instead, why not? The infinite level 1 fiend summon will make zipping through the first 10-12 levels a breeze then you'll never use warlock powers again.

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garrbear758
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Re: Do Warlock and Pale Master play well together?

Post by garrbear758 » Sat Jan 05, 2019 9:55 am

That's a good point. If you're going to dip 4 bard anyways, might as well. The better pm build only takes 3 bard levels though
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Re: Do Warlock and Pale Master play well together?

Post by Jack Oat » Wed Jan 09, 2019 11:45 pm

Sea Shanties wrote:
Sat Jan 05, 2019 7:33 am
Although.. 4 bard levels and 4 warlock levels on a 16/10/4 PM/fighter/bard are pretty much interchangeable, aren't they? You aren't going to use the bard song or spells either and that's all you lose for choosing warlock instead.

If the RP warrants a warlock dip instead, why not? The infinite level 1 fiend summon will make zipping through the first 10-12 levels a breeze then you'll never use warlock powers again.
The 16/10/4 starts fighter, then dips bard, then goes PM. You shouldn't have the CHA to use spells otherwise your build isn't right. You should still take warlock though (if RP allows) because it changes your HD to d8 instead of d6, meaning you get 8 more HP end-game.
garrbear758 wrote:
Sat Jan 05, 2019 9:55 am
That's a good point. If you're going to dip 4 bard anyways, might as well. The better pm build only takes 3 bard levels though
That's a blanket statement, super subjective, and in many respects very wrong. Assuming you go 17 PM, you lose out on about 3 AC from not being able to max Tumble. In return, your summons get a whopping like 1 AB.

Assuming you go 11 fighter, you gain nothing but like 2 HP and still lose 3 AC still. Unless you're doing the 4 APR version, and even then it's debatable and off-topic.

"You shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free."

Garrbear wrote:

quite bluntly we can't balance the server around people who don't play well

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My main takeaway from this is that Jack is apparently personable


TimeAdept
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Re: Do Warlock and Pale Master play well together?

Post by TimeAdept » Thu Jan 10, 2019 8:01 pm

To be *totally* fair, the better *caster* PM goes 11/3/16, but the melee PM definitely goes 10/4/16.

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garrbear758
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Re: Do Warlock and Pale Master play well together?

Post by garrbear758 » Fri Feb 01, 2019 3:45 am

Ya sorry. I was referring to caster PM
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