Swiss Army Bardadin

[blksabbath74]

Swiss Army Bardadin

Human
Str: 16+2 (24)
Dex: 8
Con: 14
Wis: 8
Int: 14
Cha: 15 +2 (18)

1) Fighter 1 – Power Attack, Cleave, Weapon Focus
2) Fighter 2 – Expertise
3) Fighter 3 - Improved Expertise
4) Paladin 1 – +1 Charisma (Divine Grace, Divine Health, Lay on Hands)
5) Paladin 2- (Aura of Courage, Smite Evil)
6) Paladin 3 – Divine Might (Remove Disease, Turn Undead)
7) Bard 1 – (Bardic Knowledge, Bard Song)
8) Bard 2 – +1 Strength
9) Bard 3 – Great Cleave
10) Bard 4
11) Bard 5
12) Fighter 4 - +1 Strength, Weapon Specialization, Blind Fight
13) Bard 6
14) Bard 7
15) Paladin 4 – Divine Shield
16) Bard 8 - +1 Strength
17) Bard 9
18) Bard 10 – Curse Song
19) Bard 11
20) Bard 12
21) Fighter 5 – Epic Prowess
22) Bard 13
23) Bard 14
24) Fighter 6 – + 1 Strength, Epic Weapon Focus & Specialization
25) Bard 15
26) Bard 16
27) Bard 17 – Armor Skin
28) Bard 18 - +1 Strength
29) Bard 19
30) Bard 20 – Lasting Inspiration

How does this look?

[Jagel]

I’d ditch the rogue lvls and cross class a few points in pick lock / search/ disable trap. Skill bonuses from eq and bard song should allow you to deal with most traps and locks. Your suggested spread will make you very vulnurable to dispels

[blksabbath74]

I’d ditch the rogue lvls and cross class a few points in pick lock / search/ disable trap. Skill bonuses from eq and bard song should allow you to deal with most traps and locks. Your suggested spread will make you very vulnurable to dispels

Awesome, thank you, so stick with the Fighter levels?

[flower]

I’d ditch the rogue lvls and cross class a few points in pick lock / search/ disable trap. Skill bonuses from eq and bard song should allow you to deal with most traps and locks. Your suggested spread will make you very vulnurable to dispels

Rogue allows to pass certain DC on traps, not sure if valid for locks too?

[Baron Saturday]

Rogue allows to pass certain DC on traps, not sure if valid for locks too?

Nope, that's only relevant for traps.

[blksabbath74]

I’d ditch the rogue lvls and cross class a few points in pick lock / search/ disable trap. Skill bonuses from eq and bard song should allow you to deal with most traps and locks. Your suggested spread will make you very vulnurable to dispels

So the DCs for Locks/Traps at top level are weak enough that a 15 would unlock them?

[Baron Saturday]

It's fairly easy to have an enchanter make a set of gear with +2 open lock/disable trap. Two daggers, gloves, belt, amulet, cloak, and 2 rings and that's +16 right there, and another +4 or 5 from bard song. Even with just 10 ranks, you'll be able to open up to DC 50 locks. There are stronger ones in the game, sure, but they're few and far between. Most of the ones I've encountered are in the DC 30-40 range.

[Aodh Lazuli]

So the DCs for Locks/Traps at top level are weak enough that a 15 would unlock them?

For reference, it is entirely possible to beat a lock DC of 50 with a grand total three points in open lock, 8 base dex, and a set of heavily enchanted gear designed for the purpose... As Baron pointed out above. On most of my characters i try to get a set of gear that I change into specifically for cracking into chests.

usually +1 DEX/+1 INT/+2 open lock/+2 disable trap

if you get EVERYTHING (two daggers, rings, amulet, boots, belt, gloves, helm, clothing, cloak), then you're looking at 22 in skills, and a fair chunk from increasing the ability modifiers.

[flower]

Also automatic take20..

[Aelryn Bloodmoon]

Only rogues can detect traps with DC's higher than 35- which also makes them the only ones able to disarm them.

This means by default that every epic trap in the game will nail you in the face unless you include the rogue levels- and at later levels, epic traps are the ones that will wipe you and your party (although occasionally a stun trap of a lower variety will also screw you badly- you don't need the rogue levels for those, though).

Sources:

http://nwn.wikia.com/wiki/Trap
http://nwn.wikia.com/wiki/Set_trap

[blksabbath74]

I was planning on starting with three levels of Paladin, to make the first couple of levels easier, but it looks like that will force me to take at least an 11 in Wisdom, keeping Int at 10 and robbing me of needed skill points...

[blksabbath74]

Beginning to look like the only way this would work is as a dex tank...

[Baron Saturday]

If you intend to do any soloing, you want 14 Int for improved expertise. You'll need the skill points anyhow. Starting as a bard will be fine - early levels are pretty easy to get. I assume you've looking at the cookie-cutter bardadin?

[msterswrdsmn]

A quick note: You might want those rogue levels if you're going to be dealing with traps in any meaningful way.

Why? Traps with a dc over 35 (ie: most of the traps on high end chests) can only be disarmed if you have rogue levels. Most of the trap suggestions here are kinda meaningless without rogue levels, as 35 is a really easy mark to hit, but won't let you really disarm the more meaningful traps when it counts.

Edit: Reread the topic and noticed that was already mentioned. Whoops!

As someone playing a swiss army bard, you're going to want to grab lasting inspiration, though you probably won't be able to get it around level 27 or 30 with 10 multiclassed levels.

You're going to be kinda squishy if things can hit you. You can easily crank your AC into the 60's, so getting hit is something you'll want to avoid. A greater spell focus in abjuration will help defend against IGMS, which i've personally found to be one of the builds weak points.

You don't have to go DEX based either. Fully buffed before an unfortunate typo with losexp, I could get my stats around 46 AB, 65-ish AC with decent saves. And this is with a mostly STR based build that I utterly mangled the starting stats with for rp purposes (18 INT on creation!) You are rather buff reliant, though, and some of your buffs like warcry are pretty short-lived.

The nice thing about bards is they reward screwing with sapping your enemies strengths. Taunt, silence, curse song, UMD, and to a lesser extent, counterspelling, can be used to screw with your enemies weak points

[Freyason]

Traps over 35 can be recovered by non rogues. They can also be found by using find traps spell.

[Aelryn Bloodmoon]

Traps over 35 can be recovered by non rogues. They can also be found by using find traps spell.

The first part of this is only true AFTER the second part. You cannot recover OR disable a trap you can't see. The gate to disabling traps is being able to detect them- it's true that I hadn't factored in the find traps spell.

[Freyason]

Well of course. But it's far easier to detect them, then to get necessary recover skill level.

[Baron Saturday]

Before getting too deep into the trap disarming discussion, keep in mind that this character is meant to be a Swiss army knife. It can do a lot of things, but that doesn't mean it can do all of them perfectly. There's always a trade-off. In this instance, yes, going rogue would make finding and disarming the most powerful traps much easier, but you're going to sacrifice in other areas, be it solo ability or party support. Is the extra screwdriver attachment worth shrinking the knife or the corkscrew?

[blksabbath74]

If you intend to do any soloing, you want 14 Int for improved expertise. You'll need the skill points anyhow. Starting as a bard will be fine - early levels are pretty easy to get. I assume you've looking at the cookie-cutter bardadin?

Yes, that was the build I was using as a basis, but realistically, where do I make cuts?

For me, it would need to be a strength build. I would want great sword and great cleave. Is that workable?

[msterswrdsmn]

Yes, that was the build I was using as a basis, but realistically, where do I make cuts?

For me, it would need to be a strength build. I would want great sword and great cleave. Is that workable?

What does your build look like so far?

Bard builds are very, VERY needy in terms of feats and skills. Cleave/Great Cleave might be workable, but I have no idea what your build looks like so far so its hard to make recommendations as its already outside what you'd normally do as far as the cookie-cutter build example goes.

I will agree expertise/imp expertise is absolutely vital for your build though, especially if you're using a greatsword. Your max AC without imp expertise with a greatsword is going to be in the high 40's low 50's at best without it

[blksabbath74]

Yes, that was the build I was using as a basis, but realistically, where do I make cuts?

For me, it would need to be a strength build. I would want great sword and great cleave. Is that workable?

What does your build look like so far?

Bard builds are very, VERY needy in terms of feats and skills. Cleave/Great Cleave might be workable, but I have no idea what your build looks like so far so its hard to make recommendations as its already outside what you'd normally do as far as the cookie-cutter build example goes.

I will agree expertise/imp expertise is absolutely vital for your build though, especially if you're using a greatsword. Your max AC without imp expertise with a greatsword is going to be in the high 40's low 50's at best without it

I was looking at starting with;

1) Fighter 1- Power Attack, Cleave, Expertise
2) Fighter 2- Weapon Focus
3) Fighter 3- Improved Expertise
4) Fighter 4- Great Cleave
5) Paladin 1
6) Paladin 2- Divine Might
7) Paladin 3

Then pretty much Bard the rest of the way with a level of Pally for Divine Shield.

[blksabbath74]

Weapon Focus/Specialization may be too much...not sure...

[blksabbath74]

Okay, I just posted the rough draft of the build, let me know what you think...

[Freyason]

Aside from disagreeing about use of cleave/greater cleave, you can't have divine might on 2nd paladin level because it needs turn undead.

so in this case your order would have to be

F
F
F
P
P
P
F

[blksabbath74]

Aside from disagreeing about use of cleave/greater cleave, you can't have divine might on 2nd paladin level because it needs turn undead.

so in this case your order would have to be

F
F
F
P
P
P
F

Why is it that no one likes Great Cleave? I always grab it if I can. It's great crowd control...