Ranger 10 / AA 17 / rogue 3

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legionetrangere
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Ranger 10 / AA 17 / rogue 3

Post by legionetrangere » Mon Nov 19, 2018 2:53 pm

Howdy

A question on they viability of the build
Ranger 10 / AA 17 / rogue 3

10 ranger lvls would grant bundle of damask all day every day
17 AA would grant me the enhanced arrows
3 rogue for UMD and Tumblr

Going full carpenter for Arrow crafting

What do you guys think

EDIT: second option would be 12 ranger 15 AA
For the +4 Archer ranged damage
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garrbear758
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Re: Ranger 10 / AA 17 / rogue 3

Post by garrbear758 » Tue Nov 20, 2018 4:40 am

It's not optimal, but it'll work. You're losing out on 6 damage from not having fighter. The free arrows don't quite make up for that, but they'll add convenience. You also won't be able to kite as easily due to no monk speed.
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Baron Saturday
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Re: Ranger 10 / AA 17 / rogue 3

Post by Baron Saturday » Tue Nov 20, 2018 4:51 am

Only 4 damage, actually, as Archer-path rangers get +2 ranged damage at level 4. I think the convenience of free damask bundles far, far outweighs +4 damage from epic weapon spec.

Honestly, I'd just look at Kenji's All Things Ranged thread. The first post links to a ton of solid builds.
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sad_zav
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Re: Ranger 10 / AA 17 / rogue 3

Post by sad_zav » Tue Nov 20, 2018 4:56 pm

Ranger into AA is a trap, it makes you waste wisdom. Go one or the other; don't combine them
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TroubledWaters
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Re: Ranger 10 / AA 17 / rogue 3

Post by TroubledWaters » Wed Nov 21, 2018 9:08 am

But Bard makes you waste CHA? At least WIS helps you with Spot.

(I suppose one should be starting Fighter or Monk on most Bard builds, though.)

Does this dude really need UMD? I guess you could go up to 12 ranger for more bonus damage or add more AA.

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sad_zav
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Re: Ranger 10 / AA 17 / rogue 3

Post by sad_zav » Thu Nov 22, 2018 1:42 am

That's why you don't start bard (unless you're doing bard/paladin/aa). A lot of AAs start monk, dip bard, then AA.
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Kenji
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Re: Ranger 10 / AA 17 / rogue 3

Post by Kenji » Fri Nov 23, 2018 3:01 am

If Ranger/AA/Rogue is a must for RP purposes or personal preferences, I'd suggest the following spread, even if not optimal:

Ranger 7 / 18 AA / 5 Rogue

1~6: Ranger 6 (Archer path, Disc 9)
7~9: Rogue 3 (Tumble 10, UMD 11 w/ 8 cha)
10~16: AA 7
17: Rogue 4 (Tumble 20, UMD 16 w/ 8 cha)
18~26: AA 16
27: Rogue 5 (Tumble 30)
28-29: AA 18
30: Ranger 7 (Disc 33)

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legionetrangere
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Re: Ranger 10 / AA 17 / rogue 3

Post by legionetrangere » Sun Nov 25, 2018 5:42 pm

I've decided upon 12 Ranger / 15 AA / 3 Rogue

Blade thirst is a available at ranger lvl 12, correct?

This build spread will fit nicely into what i've planned for this character


Thanks for all the insight, people!
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Jagel
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Re: Ranger 10 / AA 17 / rogue 3

Post by Jagel » Sun Nov 25, 2018 9:01 pm

Assuming base wisdom 13+, yup.

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legionetrangere
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Re: Ranger 10 / AA 17 / rogue 3

Post by legionetrangere » Mon Nov 26, 2018 12:11 am

Is this class spread mechanicly possible? I don't know how to simulate using modules, because they won't let me AA after ranger
LVL Class
1 1 Ranger
2 2 Ranger
3 3 Ranger
4 4 Ranger
5 5 Ranger
6 6 Ranger
7 7 Ranger
8 8 Ranger
9 9 Ranger
10 10 Ranger
11 1 AA
12 2 AA
13 3 AA
14 4 AA
15 5 AA
16 6 AA
17 7 AA
18 8 AA
19 9 AA
20 10 AA
21 11 Ranger
22 11 AA
23 12 AA
24 13 AA
25 14 AA
26 15 AA
27 1 Rogue
28 2 Rogue
29 3 Rogue
30 12 Ranger
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Jagel
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Re: Ranger 10 / AA 17 / rogue 3

Post by Jagel » Mon Nov 26, 2018 7:16 am

It’s possible.

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Jack Oat
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Re: Ranger 10 / AA 17 / rogue 3

Post by Jack Oat » Fri Nov 30, 2018 3:03 am

That works. Again, not the most optimal, but it works. Numbers-wise you're looking at:

AB: 54, assuming base 26 DEX at 30*
Damage (not including essences/templates): 23.5, 26.5 vs. Favored Enemies, not including Sneak Attacks**
AC: 44 with just Cat's Grace and Barkskin from the Ranger tunic, up to about 50 with Mage Armor, Haste, and Shadowshield scrolls***

Compared to a 21 Ranger/6 Fighter/3 Rogue build you have 6 more AB, do 2 more damage against non-FE targets, but 9 less damage against FE targets, have a CL of only 12 vs. 21, lose 1 AC (from Fighter bonus), and net-lose 1-2 feats (not including WS/EWS from Fighter on the 21/6/3). If you just don't cast spells (which you don't really need to do anyway) or keep away from dispels, the CL doesn't really matter.

The damage output difference between the 12/15/3 and the 21/6/3 can be seen here for Favored Enemies, and here for Non-Favored Enemies. As you can see, versus Favored Enemies the 12/15/3 beats out the 21/6/3 at about 48-ish AC, while outclassing it entirely vs. Non-Favored Enemies.

Bear in mind that by only going 16 Ranger you lose out on HiPS, arguably one of the most important defensive bonuses for an archer that doesn't go AC-meta with Monk or PM. I've never personally played an archer to tell you how important defense is, so I'll leave that conversation to people who have.

Overall it shouldn't be too bad of a build.

Below are the calculations for AB/DMG/AC.

*AB calculations:
25 BAB
14 DEX modifier
8 Arcane Archer
1 Epic Prowess
3 WF/EWF
3 Bow AB bonus

**Damage calculations:
4.5 (1d8 Bow base average)
4 (Ranger bonus)
4 (Mighty)
3 (Damask arrows)
8 (Arcane Archer bonus)
3 (Favored Enemy bonus)

***AC calculations:
10 (Base)
14 (DEX mod)
4 (Ranger tunic Armor bonus)
6 (Tumble)
2 (Armor Skin)
4 (Barkskin)
1 (Boots)
3 (Adamantine helm)

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