First Build Post - Sorc (POTF) / Paladin / Harper Mage
Moderators: Forum Moderators, Active DMs
First Build Post - Sorc (POTF) / Paladin / Harper Mage
Good Evening All,
Looking for feedback and comments on the below build I'm trialing at the moment, found a lot of challenges trying to put this together as it is extremely skill point starved, hence why i have posted the skill point distribution.
Only thing I'm disappointed about is that i was not able to pick up was ESF: Evocation / Hellball
All comments welcome looking to see if i missed out on something.
Paladin(3), Sorcerer(22), Harper Scout(5), Human
STR: 10
DEX: 10
CON: 14
WIS: 8
INT: 12
CHA: 20 (28), (with gift)
Human: (Quick to Master)
01: Sorcerer(1): Alertness, Iron Will
02: Sorcerer(2)
03: Sorcerer(3): Combat Casting
04: Sorcerer(4): CHA+1, (CHA=21)
05: Paladin(1)
06: Paladin(2): Still Spell, {Smite Evil}
07: Paladin(3)
08: Sorcerer(5): CHA+1, (CHA=22)
09: Sorcerer(6): Spell Focus: Evocation
10: Sorcerer(7)
11: Sorcerer(8)
12: Sorcerer(9): CHA+1, Greater Spell Focus: Evocation, (CHA=23)
13: Sorcerer(10)
14: Sorcerer(11)
15: Sorcerer(12): Maximize Spell
16: Sorcerer(13): CHA+1, (CHA=24)
17: Sorcerer(14)
18: Sorcerer(15): Empower Spell
19: Sorcerer(16)
20: Sorcerer(17): CHA+1, (CHA=25)
21: Harper Mage(1): Great Charisma I, Epic Skill Focus: Discipline, (CHA=26)
22: Harper Mage(2) {Skill Focus: Spellcraft}
23: Harper Mage(3) {Autoquicken Spell I}
24: Sorcerer(18): CHA+1, Automatic Still Spell I, (CHA=27)
25: Sorcerer(19)
26: Harper Mage(4)
27: Sorcerer(20): Automatic Still Spell II
28: Sorcerer(21): CHA+1, (CHA=28)
29: Harper Mage(5): Improved Combat Casting {Eschew Material feat}
30: Sorcerer(22): Automatic Still Spell III
Hitpoints: 208
Skillpoints: 142
Saving Throws (Fortitude/Will/Reflex): 24/26/20
Saving Throw bonuses: Spells: +6, Mind Effects: +2, Traps: +2
BAB: 16
AB (max, naked): 16 (melee), 16 (ranged)
AC (naked/mundane armor/shield only): 16/27
Spell Casting: Sorcerer(9)
Concentration 31(33), Discipline 30(40), Lore 6(12), Persuade 8(16), Search 4(5), Spellcraft 29(30), Tumble 30(30)
01: Concentration(4), Lore(1), Spellcraft(4), Save(7),
02: Concentration(1), Lore(1), Spellcraft(1), Save(8),
03: Concentration(1), Lore(1), Spellcraft(1), Save(9),
04: Concentration(1), Lore(1), Spellcraft(1), Save(10),
05: Concentration(1), Discipline(6), Lore(1), Persuade(6),
06: Concentration(1), Discipline(1), Lore(1), Persuade(1),
07: Concentration(1), Discipline(1), Persuade(1), Save(1),
08: Concentration(1), Spellcraft(1), Save(3),
09: Concentration(1), Spellcraft(1), Save(5),
10: Concentration(1), Spellcraft(1), Save(7),
11: Concentration(1), Spellcraft(1), Save(9),
12: Concentration(1), Spellcraft(1), Save(11),
13: Concentration(1), Spellcraft(1), Save(13),
14: Concentration(1), Spellcraft(1), Save(15),
15: Concentration(1), Spellcraft(1), Save(17),
16: Concentration(1), Spellcraft(1), Save(19),
17: Spellcraft(1), Save(22),
18: Save(26),
19: Save(30),
20: Search(4), Save(26),
21: Discipline(12), Tumble(20),
22: Save(6),
23: Save(12),
24: Concentration(4), Spellcraft(10), Save(2),
25: Concentration(1), Spellcraft(1), Save(4),
26: Tumble(5), Save(5),
27: Concentration(3), Save(6),
28: Concentration(1), Save(9),
29: Discipline(10), Tumble(5),
30: Concentration(3), Spellcraft(1),
Looking for feedback and comments on the below build I'm trialing at the moment, found a lot of challenges trying to put this together as it is extremely skill point starved, hence why i have posted the skill point distribution.
Only thing I'm disappointed about is that i was not able to pick up was ESF: Evocation / Hellball
All comments welcome looking to see if i missed out on something.
Paladin(3), Sorcerer(22), Harper Scout(5), Human
STR: 10
DEX: 10
CON: 14
WIS: 8
INT: 12
CHA: 20 (28), (with gift)
Human: (Quick to Master)
01: Sorcerer(1): Alertness, Iron Will
02: Sorcerer(2)
03: Sorcerer(3): Combat Casting
04: Sorcerer(4): CHA+1, (CHA=21)
05: Paladin(1)
06: Paladin(2): Still Spell, {Smite Evil}
07: Paladin(3)
08: Sorcerer(5): CHA+1, (CHA=22)
09: Sorcerer(6): Spell Focus: Evocation
10: Sorcerer(7)
11: Sorcerer(8)
12: Sorcerer(9): CHA+1, Greater Spell Focus: Evocation, (CHA=23)
13: Sorcerer(10)
14: Sorcerer(11)
15: Sorcerer(12): Maximize Spell
16: Sorcerer(13): CHA+1, (CHA=24)
17: Sorcerer(14)
18: Sorcerer(15): Empower Spell
19: Sorcerer(16)
20: Sorcerer(17): CHA+1, (CHA=25)
21: Harper Mage(1): Great Charisma I, Epic Skill Focus: Discipline, (CHA=26)
22: Harper Mage(2) {Skill Focus: Spellcraft}
23: Harper Mage(3) {Autoquicken Spell I}
24: Sorcerer(18): CHA+1, Automatic Still Spell I, (CHA=27)
25: Sorcerer(19)
26: Harper Mage(4)
27: Sorcerer(20): Automatic Still Spell II
28: Sorcerer(21): CHA+1, (CHA=28)
29: Harper Mage(5): Improved Combat Casting {Eschew Material feat}
30: Sorcerer(22): Automatic Still Spell III
Hitpoints: 208
Skillpoints: 142
Saving Throws (Fortitude/Will/Reflex): 24/26/20
Saving Throw bonuses: Spells: +6, Mind Effects: +2, Traps: +2
BAB: 16
AB (max, naked): 16 (melee), 16 (ranged)
AC (naked/mundane armor/shield only): 16/27
Spell Casting: Sorcerer(9)
Concentration 31(33), Discipline 30(40), Lore 6(12), Persuade 8(16), Search 4(5), Spellcraft 29(30), Tumble 30(30)
01: Concentration(4), Lore(1), Spellcraft(4), Save(7),
02: Concentration(1), Lore(1), Spellcraft(1), Save(8),
03: Concentration(1), Lore(1), Spellcraft(1), Save(9),
04: Concentration(1), Lore(1), Spellcraft(1), Save(10),
05: Concentration(1), Discipline(6), Lore(1), Persuade(6),
06: Concentration(1), Discipline(1), Lore(1), Persuade(1),
07: Concentration(1), Discipline(1), Persuade(1), Save(1),
08: Concentration(1), Spellcraft(1), Save(3),
09: Concentration(1), Spellcraft(1), Save(5),
10: Concentration(1), Spellcraft(1), Save(7),
11: Concentration(1), Spellcraft(1), Save(9),
12: Concentration(1), Spellcraft(1), Save(11),
13: Concentration(1), Spellcraft(1), Save(13),
14: Concentration(1), Spellcraft(1), Save(15),
15: Concentration(1), Spellcraft(1), Save(17),
16: Concentration(1), Spellcraft(1), Save(19),
17: Spellcraft(1), Save(22),
18: Save(26),
19: Save(30),
20: Search(4), Save(26),
21: Discipline(12), Tumble(20),
22: Save(6),
23: Save(12),
24: Concentration(4), Spellcraft(10), Save(2),
25: Concentration(1), Spellcraft(1), Save(4),
26: Tumble(5), Save(5),
27: Concentration(3), Save(6),
28: Concentration(1), Save(9),
29: Discipline(10), Tumble(5),
30: Concentration(3), Spellcraft(1),
-
- Posts: 371
- Joined: Thu Dec 10, 2015 10:14 pm
Re: First Build Post - Sorc (POTF) / Paladin / Harper Mage
I don't immediately overlyglaring problems.
I wonder if wearing fullplate is really 'worth it though' vs other options as im not sure your ac will get high enough period to resist any assailant. I also assume you are going to put discipline on most your gear. I suppose roleplay wise if you ever get tied up, you can still cast all your spell no matter what period
(also greensteel would only require like automatic still I or II because it already has reduced arcane failure)
If you managed to incorporate divine shield into the build, you might be able to get respectable AC. (I suppose you didnt add a plus 3 for adamantine everything which would put you at 36 and then 39 after drinking barkskin and then your cha bonus with divine shield should put you over 50) Don't forget true flames can use potions now. With divine shield and high cha, you might be able to break the 50 ac mark which will make you pretty survivable for PvE and where only the first attack or two will reliably hit you in PvP. You will want to get someone to enchant a bunch of your stuff wtih plus 2 discipline if you want a chance to not get knocked down though.
Of course you don't need to be front line with PvP or PvE, but if we are going this full armor route, we probably want to make your defenses at last somewhat viable.
I wonder if wearing fullplate is really 'worth it though' vs other options as im not sure your ac will get high enough period to resist any assailant. I also assume you are going to put discipline on most your gear. I suppose roleplay wise if you ever get tied up, you can still cast all your spell no matter what period
(also greensteel would only require like automatic still I or II because it already has reduced arcane failure)
If you managed to incorporate divine shield into the build, you might be able to get respectable AC. (I suppose you didnt add a plus 3 for adamantine everything which would put you at 36 and then 39 after drinking barkskin and then your cha bonus with divine shield should put you over 50) Don't forget true flames can use potions now. With divine shield and high cha, you might be able to break the 50 ac mark which will make you pretty survivable for PvE and where only the first attack or two will reliably hit you in PvP. You will want to get someone to enchant a bunch of your stuff wtih plus 2 discipline if you want a chance to not get knocked down though.
Of course you don't need to be front line with PvP or PvE, but if we are going this full armor route, we probably want to make your defenses at last somewhat viable.
Currently played characters:
Have not played for over a year, thinking of returning again
Have not played for over a year, thinking of returning again
Re: First Build Post - Sorc (POTF) / Paladin / Harper Mage
On any caster build combat casting/improved combat casting is a trap/feat waste. Just use defensive casting mode. At your level you'll have enough concentration that the +4 to DC to cast defensively won't matter.
Current
Ayiesha Dahyarif
Ilphaeryl Xun'viir
-
- Arelith Supporter
- Posts: 2028
- Joined: Thu Sep 11, 2014 4:57 pm
Re: First Build Post - Sorc (POTF) / Paladin / Harper Mage
Arelith's combat casting mode is a permanent toggle- taking combat casting and improved combat casting are, practically speaking, wastes of feats here UNLESS you are also using another combat mode (like improved expertise, which you don't have in this build), which will turn it off.
Combat casting very early like you took it isn't a bad quality of life perk if you're planning to be up front while spamming spells, but in full plate/tower shield at early levels your AC is what is going to save you from AoO's, not your concentration check.
This means that for your current concept, improved combat casting is also a waste of an epic feat, since you should turn defensive casting mode on when you log in and remain in that mode for the entire time you're logged in. Since it's a Harper bonus feat, I'd take the extra charisma so that you can save enchantment space on your gear.
If keeping the same level distribution, I would replace combat casting with either spell penetration, or re-order the metamagic feats you take so that you get still spell earlier and get quicken spell towards level 18 (quicken can be surprisingly useful for a TF despite being evocation based; bigby's interposing hand and darkness to name two of the most personally useful for myself).
For the route you're going, have you considered the Harper Paragon path, instead? You'll get the paladin perks and light armor, plus gain divine shield (and at +15 dodge AC and limited access to haste, that part is nice). You can drop combat casting for shield proficiency in this case, meaning in exchange for the 5 AC you lose from dropping down to light armor you still net +10 overall. Dropping paladin levels from the build entirely will give you another sorcerer bonus feat, allowing epic spell focus: evocation. You could then change out Automatic Still spell III for Hellball.
Dropping paladin loses you one attack per round, but your build already only had 3 at +16, so I'm guessing you want to be a tanky nuker, rather than physical/magical hybrid damage dealer.
Combat casting very early like you took it isn't a bad quality of life perk if you're planning to be up front while spamming spells, but in full plate/tower shield at early levels your AC is what is going to save you from AoO's, not your concentration check.
This means that for your current concept, improved combat casting is also a waste of an epic feat, since you should turn defensive casting mode on when you log in and remain in that mode for the entire time you're logged in. Since it's a Harper bonus feat, I'd take the extra charisma so that you can save enchantment space on your gear.
If keeping the same level distribution, I would replace combat casting with either spell penetration, or re-order the metamagic feats you take so that you get still spell earlier and get quicken spell towards level 18 (quicken can be surprisingly useful for a TF despite being evocation based; bigby's interposing hand and darkness to name two of the most personally useful for myself).
For the route you're going, have you considered the Harper Paragon path, instead? You'll get the paladin perks and light armor, plus gain divine shield (and at +15 dodge AC and limited access to haste, that part is nice). You can drop combat casting for shield proficiency in this case, meaning in exchange for the 5 AC you lose from dropping down to light armor you still net +10 overall. Dropping paladin levels from the build entirely will give you another sorcerer bonus feat, allowing epic spell focus: evocation. You could then change out Automatic Still spell III for Hellball.
Dropping paladin loses you one attack per round, but your build already only had 3 at +16, so I'm guessing you want to be a tanky nuker, rather than physical/magical hybrid damage dealer.
Bane's tyranny is known throughout the continent, and his is the image most seen as the face of evil.
-Faiths and Pantheons (c)2002
-Faiths and Pantheons (c)2002
-
- Posts: 680
- Joined: Thu Oct 20, 2016 5:30 am
Re: First Build Post - Sorc (POTF) / Paladin / Harper Mage
It is my belief divine shield is technically magic and cannot be used on a Trueflame.
Re: First Build Post - Sorc (POTF) / Paladin / Harper Mage
Thanks for the feedback - really appreciated.
will have another play around with the build and see what it comes out like.
Cheers!
will have another play around with the build and see what it comes out like.
Cheers!
-
- Arelith Gold Supporter
- Posts: 131
- Joined: Wed Sep 10, 2014 11:16 pm
Re: First Build Post - Sorc (POTF) / Paladin / Harper Mage
Can someone confirm or deny this?Cerk Evermoore wrote: ↑Tue Oct 09, 2018 4:13 amIt is my belief divine shield is technically magic and cannot be used on a Trueflame.
Last character: Vahrix Amolyn
-
- Posts: 2364
- Joined: Mon Sep 08, 2014 4:34 am
Re: First Build Post - Sorc (POTF) / Paladin / Harper Mage
That... seems wrong to me. Divine Shield isn't a spell since it has no spell school, it's a supernatural ability based off of turn undead.
I can't confirm or deny, but I'm 95% sure a TF can use it.
I can't confirm or deny, but I'm 95% sure a TF can use it.
Rolled: Helene d'Arque, Sara Lyonall
Shelved: Kels Vetian, Cin ys'Andalis, Saul Haidt
Playing: Oshe Jordain
Shelved: Kels Vetian, Cin ys'Andalis, Saul Haidt
Playing: Oshe Jordain
-
- Arelith Supporter
- Posts: 2028
- Joined: Thu Sep 11, 2014 4:57 pm
Re: First Build Post - Sorc (POTF) / Paladin / Harper Mage
Baron is right. This is a shadow rule, and wrong. Divine Might and Divine Shield are not spells, they are divine abilities tied to your turn undead class feature via feat selection. They don't have a school of magic. It would be like saying you can't Smite Evil or Turn Undead because you're a True Flame.I_Am_King_Midas wrote: ↑Wed Oct 10, 2018 2:46 pmCan someone confirm or deny this?Cerk Evermoore wrote: ↑Tue Oct 09, 2018 4:13 amIt is my belief divine shield is technically magic and cannot be used on a Trueflame.
It's fine to play that way with your own TF if you feel that way, but it's definitely not a rule.
Bane's tyranny is known throughout the continent, and his is the image most seen as the face of evil.
-Faiths and Pantheons (c)2002
-Faiths and Pantheons (c)2002