Some Monk questions

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wheat wharf
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Some Monk questions

Post by wheat wharf » Fri Sep 28, 2018 4:24 pm

I know that Monks have a good defense and pretty lackluster offensive capabilities. Taking the 20 Monk/10 Rogue build from the build-dump as an example, how would we put this "bad offense" in numbers? How's a monk's AB and how much damage would an unarmed one do per hit, usually? I know of the Stunning Fist nerf, F.

I am interested in playing a Monk, but one that takes at least 20 Monk levels for that sweet Perfect Self feat. Are there any other variants of the 20 Monk/10 Rogue that take, let's say, Shadowdancer or Assassin levels instead? I've never ever played a Monk, so I'm in need of some guidance.

ZENAKU
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Re: Some Monk questions

Post by ZENAKU » Fri Sep 28, 2018 4:42 pm

The rogue is for stuff like UMD, sneak attack, epic dodge, etc.

You can get epic dodge with 5 SD, then take fighter levels for more ab, one more attack per round, weapon specialization, epic weapon specialization. You won't have UMD though.

Astral
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Re: Some Monk questions

Post by Astral » Tue Oct 02, 2018 8:33 pm

wheat wharf wrote:
Fri Sep 28, 2018 4:24 pm
How's a monk's AB and how much damage would an unarmed one do per hit, usually?
20 bab + 14 dex mod + 1 focus +2 epic focus +3 food fist gloves = 40/37/34/31/28 below average

1d20 +4 essence +1d6 temp essence + 2/3 str mod = 21~ very low. sneak bonus is 5-30
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Regionals
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Re: Some Monk questions

Post by Regionals » Wed Oct 03, 2018 6:53 am

The value of Perfect Self is debatable.. Mind immunity is very nice, but you can also just use Clarity potions like the rest of us and monks have good will saves if you slip up. The damage immunity is pretty worthless. I don't like having to have glowing eyes that give away your alignment and can't be turned off, but if you think they're cool I wouldn't argue.

So that said, 16 monk/ 10 rogue/ 4 fighter is a solid way to go if you want higher AB, weapon specialization, either another attack or epic specialization and still keep epic dodge.

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Hunter548
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Re: Some Monk questions

Post by Hunter548 » Wed Oct 03, 2018 7:54 am

Regionals wrote:
Wed Oct 03, 2018 6:53 am
The value of Perfect Self is debatable.. Mind immunity is very nice, but you can also just use Clarity potions like the rest of us and monks have good will saves if you slip up. The damage immunity is pretty worthless. I don't like having to have glowing eyes that give away your alignment and can't be turned off, but if you think they're cool I wouldn't argue.

So that said, 16 monk/ 10 rogue/ 4 fighter is a solid way to go if you want higher AB, weapon specialization, either another attack or epic specialization and still keep epic dodge.
16 monk is, worth noting, a bit slower; And after all it only gets you an extra point of AB, when you're already barely at 40, and an extra 2 damage, when you're already at mid twenties max. It doesn't help enough for the loss of speed.
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Regionals
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Re: Some Monk questions

Post by Regionals » Wed Oct 03, 2018 4:24 pm

You'd be 50% faster instead of 60% faster before haste, which is still very fast, and you get either 1 extra attack if all fighter levels are taken pre-epic or +6 from epic weapon specialization if one is taken post epic. You also get two or three more feats which can open up something like disarm. Unless it's been changed, disarm is pretty nasty on an unarmed monk.

You do also lose empty body and 1 bonus AC. It's a trade off, just pointing out options.

Astral
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Re: Some Monk questions

Post by Astral » Wed Oct 03, 2018 9:40 pm

Regionals wrote:
Wed Oct 03, 2018 4:24 pm
You'd be 50% faster instead of 60% faster before haste, which is still very fast, and you get either 1 extra attack if all fighter levels are taken pre-epic or +6 from epic weapon specialization if one is taken post epic. You also get two or three more feats which can open up something like disarm. Unless it's been changed, disarm is pretty nasty on an unarmed monk.

You do also lose empty body and 1 bonus AC. It's a trade off, just pointing out options.
The extra apr you'd get from fighter is really meaningless as basically you get 1 ab and push your last attack (6th, which is at -15 ab) and the difference between 5 and 6 attacks does not change the amount of attacks you have in the first flurry of the round when you break out of stealth (remains 2 for both cases) so I literally see no reason to take 4 fighter lvls on unarmed monk unless its some kind of str monk disaster with no epic dodge.
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StrykerMontgomery
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Re: Some Monk questions

Post by StrykerMontgomery » Wed Oct 03, 2018 10:02 pm

Doing it of the epic weapon specialization might be worth it though.
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Regionals
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Re: Some Monk questions

Post by Regionals » Wed Oct 03, 2018 11:40 pm

Again- just pointing out a valid option. As an example I would take +6 damage and two feats (one being disarm) over glowing eyes that give away alignment on a shady evil surface monk, myself. If you want to make a defensive monk built for speed and who isn't trying to hide who she is, 20/5/5 or 20/10 is the gold standard and no reason to mess with it.

I'd actually much rather make quarterstaff monk instead of unarmed on Arelith in the first place (at least unless the class is tinkered with to bring unarmed up to speed) but that's another discussion.

Alox
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Re: Some Monk questions

Post by Alox » Fri Oct 05, 2018 7:36 pm

you can also consider 21 ranger, 6 monk, 3 rogue for an awesome quaterstaff dude who can even get greater spell focus and self teleport around the land.

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Jack Oat
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Re: Some Monk questions

Post by Jack Oat » Tue Oct 09, 2018 2:04 pm

Alox wrote:
Fri Oct 05, 2018 7:36 pm
you can also consider 21 ranger, 6 monk, 3 rogue for an awesome quaterstaff dude who can even get greater spell focus and self teleport around the land.
This is a fun build, agreed.

Another couple are Monk 10/SD 5/Assassin 15, Monk 16/Fighter 5/Assassin 9, Monk 12/Rogue 13/Fighter 5 (or any variation of the Monk/Rogue levels in increments of 3, i.e. 9/16/5, 6/19/5, etc.), or Ranger 21/Monk 3/Assassin 6 as either fist or Q-Staff (or 23/6/3 like Alox said but with fists). These are all viable. Great? Debatable, but viable at least.

Assassin is a good mixing class for Monk since you get the high APR from Monk and the high damage from Assassin (as well as E-Dodge pre-reqs if you delve deep enough). Ranger is nice if you want to do dual-wielding for a number of reasons, not the least of which are high AB, decent damage, high HP, bonuses from Ranger feats/skills/spells, etc. If you want to do fist based though, you'll be disappointed with what's available. I still hold true that one of the better fist-based Monk builds is that 10 Monk/5 SD/15 Assassin build just because it's a HiPS build with e-dodge and Assassin damage.

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