Generic Dwarven Defender Advice?

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TheShadowdove
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Generic Dwarven Defender Advice?

Post by TheShadowdove » Sun Sep 23, 2018 5:58 pm

Hey Arelithians,

I'm working on a generic DD/Fighter/rogue build. Sticking with these three classes.

The idea is to be mostly an irritating sentinel who is very difficult to kill. I understand it'll have subpar attack bonus. Especially when compared to a Weapon Master.

My options were 17/10/3 and 18/9/3.

Same amount of bonus feats with both spreads. Both will end up with the same strength. Fighter 10 has the advantage of 1 more ac from helmet and 18 DD has 3 more damage reduction and 2 more health. The 10 ftr also squeezes in 14 int over 13.

Here's the first draft of the build.

18 dwarven defender 9 fighter 3 rogue

Strength 16 +2 gift (18) (24 at end, 26 stance)
Dexterity 13
Constitution18(racial)+2 gift (20)(22 feat/lvl16+1)
Wisdom8
Intelligence13
Charisma 6(racial)

If 17dd/10ftr/3rogue

15str+2gift+1ftrlvl10
14dex
16con+2gift
8wis
14 int
6cha

127 skill points.
33 discipline
33 heal
32(16) spell craft
Tumble 30
17 UMD
2 leftover points

Ftr1lvl1-expertise, toughness(bonus feat)
Ftr2lvl2-weapon focus(bonus) dwarven waraxe.
Ftr3lvl3-improved expertise
Ftr4lvl4-weapon specialization(+1str)(bonus)
Ftr5lvl5
Ftr6lvl6-dodge, knockdown(bonus)
Ftr7lvl7
DD1lvl8 (+1str)
DD2lvl9-lightning reflex or will
DD3lvl10
DD4lvl11
DD5lvl12-improved critical (+1str)
DD6lvl13
DD7lvl14
DD8lvl15- improved knockdown
DD9lvl16(+1con)
DD10lvl17
DD11lvl18-blindfight
DD12lvl19
DD13lvl20(+1str)
Ftr8lvl21-epic wpn. focus, epic wpn. spec(bonus).
DD14lvl22 g. Con 1(bonus)
DD15lvl23
Ftr9lvl24- Armor skin(+1str)
DD16lvl25
DD17lvl26
Rog1lvl27- Epic damage reduction 1
Rog2lvl28(+1str)
Rog3lvl29
DD18lvl30- Epic damage reduction 2&3(bonus)

It is without epic prowess and esf discipline in it's current state.

Help me out folks. Stay on topic. Be civil human beings.

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Opustus
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Re: Generic Dwarven Defender Advice?

Post by Opustus » Sun Sep 23, 2018 9:43 pm

One error with your build is that you can't go DwD past 10 as pre-epic as it's a prestige class. That build is usually done as Rogue4/Fighter8/DwD18 starting as Rogue3 for extra skill points at level 1.

Compared to your current build's feats, it means that one pre-epic feat moves into epic. One option is to leave CON at 21 to gain ESF:Discipline. It looks good otherwise, it's a pretty straightforward build!
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TheShadowdove
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Re: Generic Dwarven Defender Advice?

Post by TheShadowdove » Sun Sep 23, 2018 9:55 pm

Opustus wrote:
Sun Sep 23, 2018 9:43 pm
One error with your build is that you can't go DwD past 10 as pre-epic as it's a prestige class. That build is usually done as Rogue4/Fighter8/DwD18 starting as Rogue3 for extra skill points at level 1.

Compared to your current build's feats, it means that one pre-epic feat moves into epic. One option is to leave CON at 21 to gain ESF:Discipline. It looks good otherwise, it's a pretty straightforward build!
Oo nice catch! I forgot about that.

This also means I'll have one less AB than I originally had planned to as well, doesn't it?

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Opustus
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Re: Generic Dwarven Defender Advice?

Post by Opustus » Sun Sep 23, 2018 10:02 pm

Yup!
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TheShadowdove
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Re: Generic Dwarven Defender Advice?

Post by TheShadowdove » Sun Sep 23, 2018 11:58 pm

okay, how does this look?

Rog1LVL1-Toughness
Rog2LVL2
Rog3LVL3-Expertise
Ftr1LVL4-Weaponfocus[battleaxe](Bonus Feat)(+1str)
Ftr2LVL5-Knockdown(bonus)
Ftr3LVL6-dodge
Ftr4LVL7-Weapon Specialization(bonus)
DD1LVL8(+1str)
DD2LVL9-Improved Expertise
DD3LVL10
DD4LVL12-improved critical (+1str)
DD5LVL13
DD6LVL14
DD7LVL15-Blindfight
DD8LVL16 (+1str )
DD9LVL17
DD10LVL18-Improved Knockdown
Ftr5LVL19
Ftr6LVL20-Great Fortitude (bonus) (+1con)
Ftr7LVL21-Epic Weapon Specialization
Ftr8LVL22- Epic Weapon Focus (Bonus)
DD11LVL23
DD12LVL24-Armor Skin (+1str)
DD13LVL25
DD14LVL26-G.Con 1(Bonus) or Epic Damage reduction 1 if choosing ESF at 30
DD15LVL27-Epic Damage Reduction 1
DD18LVL28 (+1str)
Rog4LVL29
DD18LVL30 epic Damage Reduction 2 & 3 (or Epic Skill Focus Discipline)

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Opustus
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Re: Generic Dwarven Defender Advice?

Post by Opustus » Mon Sep 24, 2018 11:26 am

Good, although you seem to skip level 11 entirely!
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Baron Saturday
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Re: Generic Dwarven Defender Advice?

Post by Baron Saturday » Mon Sep 24, 2018 4:24 pm

Eh, boring level anyway.
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TheShadowdove
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Re: Generic Dwarven Defender Advice?

Post by TheShadowdove » Mon Sep 24, 2018 4:54 pm

Haha!

Thanks for pointing it out.

Freyason
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Re: Generic Dwarven Defender Advice?

Post by Freyason » Tue Sep 25, 2018 4:09 am

TheShadowdove wrote:
Sun Sep 23, 2018 5:58 pm

15str+2gift+1ftrlvl10
Str (or dex) from fighter levels is not hard bonus.

TheShadowdove
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Re: Generic Dwarven Defender Advice?

Post by TheShadowdove » Wed Sep 26, 2018 4:03 am

Revised.

Rog1LVL1-Toughness
Rog2LVL2
Rog3LVL3-Expertise
Ftr1LVL4-Weaponfocus[battleaxe](Bonus Feat)(+1str)
Ftr2LVL5-Knockdown(bonus)
Ftr3LVL6-dodge
Ftr4LVL7-Weapon Specialization(bonus)
DD1LVL8(+1str)
DD2LVL9-Improved Expertise
DD3LVL10
DD4LVL11
DD5LVL12-improved critical (+1str)
DD6LVL13
DD7LVL14
DD8LVL15-Blindfight
DD9LVL16 (+1str)
DD10LVL17
Ftr5LVL18-Improved Knockdown
Ftr6LVL19-Great Fortitude (bonus)
Ftr7LVL20 (+1con)
Ftr8LVL21-Epic Weapon Specialization,Epic Weapon Focus (Bonus)
DD11LVL22-
DD12LVL23
DD13LVL24-Armor Skin (+1str_
DD14LVL25
DD15LVL26-G.Con 1(Bonus) or Epic Damage reduction 1 if choosing ESF at 30
DD16LVL27-Epic Damage Reduction 1
DD17LVL28 (+1str)
Rog4LVL29
DD18LVL30 epic Damage Reduction 2 & 3 (or Epic Skill Focus Discipline)

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Baron Saturday
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Re: Generic Dwarven Defender Advice?

Post by Baron Saturday » Wed Sep 26, 2018 3:53 pm

Great Fort, at level 19, isn't actually on the fighter bonus feat list, and it's a bit of a waste anyhow since fort is the one save you probably won't need to worry about! I'd move IKD to 19 and pick up Called Shot or one of the other two save feats at 18.
Rolled: Helene d'Arque, Sara Lyonall
Shelved: Kels Vetian, Cin ys'Andalis, Saul Haidt
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Opustus
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Re: Generic Dwarven Defender Advice?

Post by Opustus » Wed Sep 26, 2018 5:25 pm

I can't imagine a scenario where I'd use Called shot over IKD as a meleer :s
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Baron Saturday
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Re: Generic Dwarven Defender Advice?

Post by Baron Saturday » Wed Sep 26, 2018 5:33 pm

Big things. Could also do disarm or whatever. Anything but great fort, really.
Rolled: Helene d'Arque, Sara Lyonall
Shelved: Kels Vetian, Cin ys'Andalis, Saul Haidt
Playing: Oshe Jordain

Alox
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Re: Generic Dwarven Defender Advice?

Post by Alox » Wed Sep 26, 2018 5:45 pm

or reshuffle some of the early feats to pick a level 1 only feat, like luck of the heroes.

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TroubledWaters
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Re: Generic Dwarven Defender Advice?

Post by TroubledWaters » Tue Oct 09, 2018 8:47 pm

Yeah I wouldn't take Toughness early as it won't help you all that much then and is more of a "nice to have" rather than "essential" feat. Get your more important feats online before Toughness, which scales retroactively.

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Baron Saturday
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Re: Generic Dwarven Defender Advice?

Post by Baron Saturday » Wed Oct 10, 2018 6:10 am

TroubledWaters wrote:
Tue Oct 09, 2018 8:47 pm
Yeah I wouldn't take Toughness early as it won't help you all that much then and is more of a "nice to have" rather than "essential" feat. Get your more important feats online before Toughness, which scales retroactively.
Since you need Toughness for DD, there's really not that much shuffling that can be done. You could take KD at 1 and Toughness at 5, I suppose.

One critical issue I missed, first time I looked at this build: DD needs a BAB of 7 to qualify. When you take it at level 8, your BAB is only 6. Easy fix, though: Move Fighter 5 up to level 8 and shift all DD levels down one.
Rolled: Helene d'Arque, Sara Lyonall
Shelved: Kels Vetian, Cin ys'Andalis, Saul Haidt
Playing: Oshe Jordain

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