Kensai Monk Salvage

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Beard Master Flex
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Joined: Sun Dec 06, 2015 1:50 am

Kensai Monk Salvage

Post by Beard Master Flex » Wed Sep 19, 2018 5:44 pm

So once upon a time I made a kensai monk and never played them... now that the path is gone and this one has been grandfathered in I’d like to try to salvage it.

Initial Ability scores
14 Str
17Dex
12con
14 Int
16wis
8 Cha

Human Monk 3 with expertise, weapon finesse and WF unarmed (going unarmed build)

I know that the recommended build is 20 Monk/10 Rogue but I’d love to go with a fighter and epic weapon specialization unarmed.

Kensai already lost me UMD and the main reason I wanted to go back to this character was to have a reason not to dip rogue or Bard.

I’d also like to dive deep into Monk as much as possible.

It’s looking like the unbuffed AB is going to be like 40 or something which is pretty bad... so any tips to help increase this I’d love to hear!

Is uncanny dodge something you can live without? Ultimately I’d just like to spend my time -guarding characters in epic dungeons with my super high AC and speed.

Does Purple Dragon Knight offer anything?

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Baron Saturday
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Re: Kensai Monk Salvage

Post by Baron Saturday » Wed Sep 19, 2018 8:01 pm

I've played around with the idea of a PDK/Monk before, and Protector and Vanguard both offer some very nice options. Fear can, with enough Intimidate investment, give you a nice AoE AC debuff with DCs in the high 30s. Combo that with Oath of Wrath and Rallying Cry (both instant abilities) and you're effectively giving yourself +3-5 AB for a turn.

Vanguard gives your offense a nice boost, doubling the Fear penalties for three rounds, and the 15% damage vulnerability from Oath of Wrath doesn't hurt.

Protector, on the other hand, makes an already tanky class even tankier and better at protecting parties. I cannot overstate how useful an AoE Restoration ability on a cooldown is.

Valiant WOULD be great if it didn't require a hefty Cha investment, but since Cha is the one stat monks can afford to dump...

Build-wise, eh... Monk 16/Fighter 4/PDK 10?Maybe Monk 12/PDK 8 pre-epic to get 17 BAB and have the upgraded PDK ability available early on. Fighter 21-24, picking up Epic Weapon Spec, then 2 more PDK and finish off w/ monk.
Rolled: Helene d'Arque, Sara Lyonall
Shelved: Kels Vetian, Cin ys'Andalis, Saul Haidt
Playing: Oshe Jordain

Beard Master Flex
Posts: 137
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Re: Kensai Monk Salvage

Post by Beard Master Flex » Wed Sep 19, 2018 8:05 pm

Would losing the fighter for a 20/10 be that bad? I kinda think I’d prefer perfect self over epic weapon spec.

StrykerMontgomery
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Re: Kensai Monk Salvage

Post by StrykerMontgomery » Wed Sep 19, 2018 8:13 pm

I am not too familiar with purple knight, but this definitely salvageable (if i can solo some and half solo the other half with a str based kensai monk with not combat expertise, I am sure you can do fine).

The good news is kensais can use potions now (my kensai originally could not) so you can buff up with owls wisdom, cat, bull (damage), and barkskin on top of your passive 2 ac. (Also people can brew lvl 1 to 3 potions. Just less common than wand makers and higher lvl wands are eztremely expensive).

If you wanted a bit more offense abilities, you might take only 16 monk and 4 fighter for epic weapon specialization (you will still habe 1d20 unarmed damage. Lose bit of speed and spell resist and 1 ac for plus 6 damage per hit). But i understand the lvl 20 monk capstone is quite nice and very understandable if your goal os to gaurd someone else.

Also if you are set on being a professional body gaurd, the people you are protecting can sometimes buff you!

The 10 rogue is not just for uncanny dodge,but for epic dodge which is far more important, especially if you want to be a tank master. (Auto dodging the first succesful hit on your already high ac is really good).
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StrykerMontgomery
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Re: Kensai Monk Salvage

Post by StrykerMontgomery » Wed Sep 19, 2018 8:17 pm

Beard Master Flex wrote:
Wed Sep 19, 2018 8:05 pm
Would losing the fighter for a 20/10 be that bad? I kinda think I’d prefer perfect self over epic weapon spec.
I don't think losing 6 damage per hit is a big deal if you are focused on protecting and pve (my str monk would love the gaurd lol). But it is significant and you do get more feats.

Losing out on epic dodge as a dex based monk is a crime though .
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Baron Saturday
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Re: Kensai Monk Salvage

Post by Baron Saturday » Wed Sep 19, 2018 9:18 pm

Beard Master Flex wrote:
Wed Sep 19, 2018 8:05 pm
Would losing the fighter for a 20/10 be that bad? I kinda think I’d prefer perfect self over epic weapon spec.
I have mixed feelings about Perfect Self. The 20/+1 DR is generally not worth mentioning by the time you get it, so really it's the permanent mind immunity that you're after. Which is great, don't get me wrong! But... you could also drink a clarity potion. Honestly, I'm just sorta biased against the cookie-cutter 20 monk/10 rogue, though that is certainly one way you could go. I've always felt as though it needed some more offensive punch, and 6 extra damage from EWS combined with (in your case) up to 9 APR (6 base, +1 kensai, +1 flurry, +1 haste) is potentially an extra 54 damage/round, not dependent on sneak attacks.

20 monk/10 rogue does meet edodge prereqs, which is nice. 20 monk/5 fighter/5 SD also meets the prereqs, and the 2 feats needed for SD are canceled out by the fighter bonus feats at 1 & 2.

I would 100% try to get Blinding Speed, because having 3 minutes of haste on cooldown for a kensai monk is crazy useful. Since your starting Dex is only 17, both Blinding Speed and edodge will require the investment of a Great Dex feat, and I don't think there's any way to get both of them without a build that goes rogue 13. (You'd invest all stat increases into Dex, take Great Dex at 21, 24, or 27, hit 25 Dex at 28, and take rogue 13 at 28 or 29 to pick up one of the feats and grab the other at 30... assuming that I'm correctly remembering how rogue bonus feats work.)
Rolled: Helene d'Arque, Sara Lyonall
Shelved: Kels Vetian, Cin ys'Andalis, Saul Haidt
Playing: Oshe Jordain

StrykerMontgomery
Posts: 371
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Re: Kensai Monk Salvage

Post by StrykerMontgomery » Wed Sep 19, 2018 9:29 pm

Blinding speed as a monk kensai would be awesome.
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Beard Master Flex
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Re: Kensai Monk Salvage

Post by Beard Master Flex » Wed Sep 19, 2018 10:55 pm

Yeah back in the day when I created the char blinding speed wasn’t what it is now or I totally would have done 18 or more dex to start.

My original design intent was to -not- go rogue which is why I didn’t set my self up for epic dodge. I played an epic dodge character way back when and was looking for something new... but now I almost want to remake that old char after the rogue changes lol; don’t know if I have it in me to level a rogue these days though.

And yeah I agree that perfect self isn’t the be-all end-all but for some reason I don’t feel like a monk if I can’t just wade through any kind of will save with the (almost) arrogant confidence of an unbreakable mind.

I’m really into the PDK kit for the monk as some kind of supernatural extension of his art as some kind of absolute Mercenary bodyguard.

I know epic dodge is totally the bees knees but I’m sure with an AC pushing high 60’s you’ll have enough HP to eat the crits coming through, plus a little mitigation from the PDK abilities. Last stand probably makes you flat footed though.

Somebody please give monks uncanny dodge!

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