Help with a Wild-Elf TrueFlame Paladin?

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Jayim Duinara
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Help with a Wild-Elf TrueFlame Paladin?

Post by Jayim Duinara » Thu Sep 06, 2018 10:19 pm

Hello all!

I made my character, Jayim Duinara, about a year ago, and promptly lost the ability to play the game until recently. =/

I've only ever played the single-player NWN, and I've never done any roleplaying before, so Arelith is a very, very large change for me. I really need some advice.

My basic character concept:

My elf is descended from an evil-warlock who captured a bronze dragon. The dragon broke free, killed the witch, and left his offspring with the elves of Chondalwood. ~15 generations later, raised on his family's lore and having inherited his ancestor's natural lightning magic, my wild-elf left to search for his dragon ancestor. His research led him to the island of Arelith.

He passionately hates warlocks, and has a burning desire to see justice for the abused and oppressed.

Does this sound like it makes sense for a TrueFlameSorc/Paladin?

Build planning:

I found this post which looks like it should do fairly well: viewtopic.php?f=36&t=12878&p=107047#p107047

Since I'm a wild-elf, I already have toughness, so that makes up for the lack of the human bonus feat.

My starting stats were:

STR: 10
DEX: 11
CON: 14
INT: 14
WIS: 10
CHA: 19

I get 4 skill point per level. I've been doing Concentration, Spellcraft, Healing, and Lore. I'm level 6 at the moment, and was going to quit investing in Lore and save up for Discipline. Have I already ruined myself? =(

Spell choice:

Jayim is supposed to match his ancestor in magic. Bronze dragons are aquatic, with powers of Lightning, Mind affecting, and pure force magic.

A lot of the spell list fits nicely in those categories, but I'm worried about prioritizing lightning over fire.

I realize how iconic throwing flames around are for Sorcerers and Wizards, but how necessary is it? Will I be horribly, horribly bad off for choosing Scintillating Sphere instead of Fireball?

Crafting:

I was thinking maybe Herbalism, since I could make my own mundane recovery items and it would fit with my character growing up in a forest. Tailoring might do. On the other hand, Art-crafting or Achemy would go along with his magical side. The problem, is that I have no idea what is useful... Which crafting skill would be the most useful to my character?

Equiptment:

"I have nothing to wear!"

Seriously, what on earth (or in this case Faerun), am I supposed to look for in equipment? I don't know what stacks and what doesn't. Can I have lightning resistance added to my tunic, boots, cape, and belt and then throw Scintillating spheres at my feet? or will only one of them count? what about main stat boosts? if I add Charisma to my cloak, will it not matter on boots? Or should I be worried about Charisma at all? What about AC? or should I look for Discipline? Paladins wear heavy armor, right? But I'm a spellcaster! What about spell failure?!

"Please, someone help me," he sobbed.

Conclusion:

I'm an almost total ignoramus. Please have pity on me. I try hard not to be obnoxious. =)

The1Kobra
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Re: Help with a Wild-Elf TrueFlame Paladin?

Post by The1Kobra » Thu Sep 06, 2018 11:25 pm

If you're going to go TrueFlame/Paladin, you want to grab 13 STR, and then get power attack and divine shield. Doing this will definitely help your defenses. You won't be a tank but it's enough so that your AC won't be total garbage anymore, and TFs lack in defenses.

For crafting, you probably want either 17 Art or 17 Alchemy to make spell components. Beyond that, take what you feel fits the character best. Forging may be tough unless you have a high STR though and doesn't offer much to a TF (unless you want to go still spell + templar armor, though that still isn't a great combo).

For armor, there's a tailoring item that is 0 ASF padded armor with +2 CHA, that's probably what you should aim for. Your equipment should probably boost CHA and CON, in that order.

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One Two Three Five
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Re: Help with a Wild-Elf TrueFlame Paladin?

Post by One Two Three Five » Fri Sep 07, 2018 2:49 am

I realize how iconic throwing flames around are for Sorcerers and Wizards, but how necessary is it? Will I be horribly, horribly bad off for choosing Scintillating Sphere instead of Fireball?
You're actually probably fine. I think scint sphere and ball lightning impersonate fireball/firebrand decently well. Word of warning: There's a lot of high level stuff you'll want fire for instead, but, honestly, TFers have enough spare spells that you can take whatever, and probably will.

One issue you may or may not care about is that a TFer doesn't necessarily evenly match a warlock. I'm not counting out luck or skill- it's possible, of course- but probably difficult, if your char is going to be warlock hunting.
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Re: Help with a Wild-Elf TrueFlame Paladin?

Post by Aelryn Bloodmoon » Fri Sep 07, 2018 5:05 am

Mechanically speaking and since you're good-aligned anyway, are you opposed to Harper RP? Harper Paragon is a nice option, letting you save the power attack feat (and 3 points of strength, when trying to build a caster) but still giving you access to divine shield, while also advancing your caster level.

Harper Mage, with its eventual ability to stop requiring spell components making you able to spam crushing and grasping hands, and auto-quicken I comes as part of the perks (it's a commitment, though- because you're going to want II and III as a TrueFlame- the meteor swarm upgrades are very nice, as is incendiary cloud).

Both pair very nicely with a sorcerer, IMO, for different reasons.

As to whether or not you will regret prioritizing lightning over fire, the answer is generally not. My True Flame did the same with lightning over fire, but by level 20, you will have every single evocation spell in the game with the exception of perhaps one seventh or eighth level spell (Edit- I'm actually pretty sure I had so many choices that I had to pick a non-evocation spell at ninth circle) available to a sorcerer, because that's all you can pick.

Your prioritization will only shape the early parts of your story and provide a strong hint at your character's personal preference, because by levels 15-20, you WILL have those fire spells you didn't have early on for lack of anything else to pick.

Scintillating sphere's main notable difference is that where you can throw a fireball at a group of enemies that hasn't become aware of you yet, you will be in LoS radius for 9/10 of your scintillating sphere throws. That's a big difference but a true flame has tools to compensate for that.

Ball Lightning differs in its targeting schematic. You must target ball lightning on a creature, and not on the ground. This can be negligible or it can be devastating, depending on circumstances and situations.

Except against fire immune monsters, all the fire spells are flat-out better in subtle but impactful ways.

But you should do you- I too, subscribe to the thought that lightning is way more badass than fire, and I've had a lot of fun with it myself.
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Re: Help with a Wild-Elf TrueFlame Paladin?

Post by Commissar » Fri Sep 07, 2018 5:56 am

Alrighty. Glad to see that build getting some mileage.

Just remember that it's largely designed to let you mow down mobs in PvE. Your defences are terrible, and anything that gets within arm's reach will almost certainly kill you. There's certain measures you can take on a build like this to mitigate that, as Kobra pointed out. That build doesn't. It is; however, tremendous fun.

First off, your stats are a little odd, but it's not the end of the world. If it was me, I'd lower my DEX to 10, WIS to 8, and then put the balance in strength. Being able to carry stuff is handy. But you've got CHA and CON, which are the two big ones. Everything else is just quality of life.
Jayim Duinara wrote:
Thu Sep 06, 2018 10:19 pm
I get 4 skill point per level. I've been doing Concentration, Spellcraft, Healing, and Lore. I'm level 6 at the moment, and was going to quit investing in Lore and save up for Discipline. Have I already ruined myself? =(
You're fine. Assuming you're going for the build you linked, it only achieves 23 Discipline. Which is not great from a build perspective, but it does mean that you'll have enough skillpoints. Rejoice!

You'll just need to not take any Spellcraft/Heal from after level 14 until after your paladin dump. That'll make sure you've got enough skillpoints to max discipline on your paladin level. You'll eventually earn enough points back that you can still max out Concentration/Spellcraft/Heal by the time you hit 30.
Jayim Duinara wrote:
Thu Sep 06, 2018 10:19 pm
I realize how iconic throwing flames around are for Sorcerers and Wizards, but how necessary is it? Will I be horribly, horribly bad off for choosing Scintillating Sphere instead of Fireball?
You'll get enough spell choices, eventually, to have everything. Don't sweat it. You spit death in all the colours of the rainbow.
Jayim Duinara wrote:
Thu Sep 06, 2018 10:19 pm
Crafting:

I was thinking maybe Herbalism, since I could make my own mundane recovery items and it would fit with my character growing up in a forest. Tailoring might do. On the other hand, Art-crafting or Achemy would go along with his magical side. The problem, is that I have no idea what is useful... Which crafting skill would be the most useful to my character?
As others have said, you're going to quite literally burn through spell components. 17 points in art or alchemy will let you make them yourself, and ease that burden a bit. I'm fond of alchemy, but both have their advantages.

Beyond that, you're not a martial character, so your equipment won't degrade at any noticeable rate. Take whatever fits with your character! Herbalism's fun, but you will struggle a bit with a low strength character to carry crafting materials.
Jayim Duinara wrote:
Thu Sep 06, 2018 10:19 pm
Equiptment:

"I have nothing to wear!"

Seriously, what on earth (or in this case Faerun), am I supposed to look for in equipment? I don't know what stacks and what doesn't. Can I have lightning resistance added to my tunic, boots, cape, and belt and then throw Scintillating spheres at my feet? or will only one of them count? what about main stat boosts? if I add Charisma to my cloak, will it not matter on boots? Or should I be worried about Charisma at all? What about AC? or should I look for Discipline? Paladins wear heavy armor, right? But I'm a spellcaster! What about spell failure?!
No heavy armour for you. You're a lightning spitting turret of holy vengeance. The maximum buff you can get on a stat is +12. Since you can't cast buffing spells, that's going to need to come from allies or gear. Stat bonuses on gear stack. Elemental damage resistance doesn't, unfortunately, so the best you can get (typically 5DR from essences) still won't be enough to shield you from your own damage.

AC bonuses are more temperamental - it depends on the type of gear its enchanted on (boots, helmet, etc). And your AC'll be atrocious anyway, so I wouldn't bother going down that road.

Look for CON/CHA gear, ideally with discipline/spellcraft/concentration(?) as well. You'll probably want those on Boots/Gloves/Rings/Necklace/Any other slot you don't have something special in. There's a tailoring tunic, the Royal Outfit, that gives you +2 Charisma. It's reasonably easy to make, so that wouldn't be a bad choice early on. There's some similar gear (craftable and loootable!) that might be handy, but it's fairly high in level - You'll run into it later.

While not mechanically useful, some STR gear is pretty neat to have from a quality of life perspective. Also, as Aelryn said, the Harper build is also an option if you're that way inclined, and can be tremendous fun.
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Jayim Duinara
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Re: Help with a Wild-Elf TrueFlame Paladin?

Post by Jayim Duinara » Fri Sep 07, 2018 5:00 pm

Thank you all so much for your advice! I have a much better idea what I'm doing now. =D

I have little to no interest in PvP. If a Warlock attacks me, I'll defend myself (and probably die), but Jayim's general opinion is that unless he catches them in the middle of evil acts, letting them be enslaved to their abyssal masters is a fitting punishment. If they are willing to sell their soul for power, good riddance to them; it's when they try to sell someone ELSE's soul that he'll take up arms. It goes along with his Lawful alignment.

While Harper sounds interesting, I don't think I'm up to that type of challenge for my first RP experience, so I think I'll stay with the Paladin route.

Those stats bothered me, so I'm remaking Jayim right now.

New stats:

13 Str
10 Dex
14 Con
14 Int
8 Wis
19 Cha

And I think I'll go Herbalism and Art-crafting.

Okay, I think I'm set! Thank you all again! =D

The1Kobra
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Re: Help with a Wild-Elf TrueFlame Paladin?

Post by The1Kobra » Sat Sep 08, 2018 11:07 am

Just remember to take power attack and be sure that your third paladin level lands on a level where you take a feat! This way you can pick up divine shield.

For your other feats, I'd go: Empower Spell, SF Evocation, GSF Evocation, Quicken Spell, Still Spell (Just in case you ever want to use armor, but you can pick another feat if you want to do something else)

For epics, grabbing Auto-Quicken 1-3 is manditory when you can. Epic focus evocation as well. If you're grabbing divine shield, then you probably want armor skin too, just to keep stacking on the AC. If you go full armor and use still spell + autoquicken, you can have some nice damage output while being fully armored. Alternatively go with 0 ASF equipment and while your AC will be lower, you can start spamming empowered spells.

If you have any feats to spare, you might want to pick up the spell penetration line, since a TF has no way to reduce SR or dispel a targets buffs.

Jayim Duinara
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Re: Help with a Wild-Elf TrueFlame Paladin?

Post by Jayim Duinara » Sat Sep 08, 2018 9:10 pm

I think I like the reliability of Maximize better than Empower, and I don't get any level 7 spells that would benefit from empower, so...

Here's the build I was thinking of, please everyone tell me if I've messed something up! I don't know this system well enough to really know what is and isn't possible (or preferable):


1st Level - Sorcerer
Feats: Spell Focus (Evocation), Toughness (Racial)
Skills: Concentration 4, Heal 4, Lore 4, Spellcraft 4

2nd Level - Sorcerer
Skills: Concentration 5, Heal 5, Lore 5, Spellcraft 5

3rd Level - Sorcerer
Feats: Greater Spell Focus (Evocation)
Skills: Concentration 6, Heal 6, Lore 6, Spellcraft 6

4th Level - Sorcerer
Skills: Concentration 7, Heal 7, Lore 7, Spellcraft 7

5th Level - Sorcerer
Skills: Concentration 8, Heal 8, Lore 8 (with INT bonus, this is 10), Spellcraft 8

6th Level - Sorcerer
Feats: Maxmimise Spell
Skills: Concentration 9, Heal 9, Lore 8, Spellcraft 9, unspent 1

7th Level - Sorcerer
Skills: Concentration 10, Heal 10 Lore 8, Spellcraft 10, unspent 2

8th Level - Sorcerer
Skills: Concentration 11, Heal 11, Lore 8, Spellcraft 11, unspent 3

9th Level - Sorcerer
Feats: Quicken Spell
Skills: Concentration 12, Heal 12, Lore 8, Spellcraft 12, unspent 4

10th Level - Sorcerer
Skills: Concentration 13, Heal 13, Lore 8, Spellcraft 13, unspent 5

11th Level - Sorcerer
Skills: Concentration 14, Heal 14, Lore 8, Spellcraft 14, unspent 6

12th Level - Sorcerer
Feats: Spell Penetration
Skills: Concentration 15, Heal 15, Lore 8, Spellcraft 15, unspent 7

13th Level - Sorcerer
Skills: Concentration 16, Heal 16, Lore 8, Spellcraft 16, unspent 8

14th Level - Sorcerer
Skills: Concentration 17, Heal 16, Lore 8, Spellcraft 17, unspent 9

15th Level - Sorcerer:
Feats: Greater Spell Penetration
Skills: Concentration 18, Heal 16, Lore 8, Spellcraft 18, unspent 11

16th Level - Sorcerer
Skills: Concentration 19, Heal 16, Lore 8, Spellcraft 19, unspent 13

17th Level - Sorcerer
Skills: Concentration 20, Heal 16, Lore 8, Spellcraft 20, unspent 15

18th Level - Sorcerer
Feats: Power Attack
Skills: Concentration 21, Heal 16 Lore 8, Spellcraft 21, unspent 17

19th Level - Sorcerer
Skills: Concentration 22, Heal 16, Lore 8, Spellcraft 22, unspent 19

20th Level - Sorcerer
Skills: Concentration 23, Heal 16, Lore 8, Spellcraft 23, unspent 21

21st Level - Sorcerer
Feats: Epic Spell Focus: Evocation
Skills: Concentration 24, Heal 16, Lore 8, Spellcraft 24, unspent 23

22nd Level- Paladin
Skills: Concentration 25, Discipline 25, Heal 17, Lore 8, Spellcraft 24, unspent 1

23rd Level - Paladin
Skills: Concentration 26, Discipline 26, Heal 18, Lore 8, Spellcraft 24, unspent 2

24th Level - Paladin
Feats: Divine Shield
Skills: Concentration 27, Discipline 27, Heal 19, Lore 8, Spellcraft 24, unspent 3

25th Level - Sorcerer
Skills: Concentration 28, Discipline 27, Heal 21, Lore 8, Spellcraft 28

26th Level - Sorcerer
Feats: Epic Spell: Greater Ruin
Skills: Concentration 29, Discipline 27, Heal 23, Lore 8, Spellcraft 29

27th Level - Sorcerer
Feats: Autoquicken #1
Skills: Concentration 30, Discipline 27, Heal 25, Lore 8, Spellcraft 30

28th Level - Sorcerer
Skills: Concentration 31, Discipline 27, Heal 27, Lore 8, Spellcraft 31

29th Level - Sorcerer
Feats: Autoquicken #2
Skills: Concentration 32, Discipline 27, Heal 29, Lore 8, Spellcraft 32

30th Level - Sorcerer
Feats: Autoquicken #3
Skills: Concentration 33, Discipline 27, Heal 31, Lore 8, Spellcraft 33

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Re: Help with a Wild-Elf TrueFlame Paladin?

Post by deyrot » Sun Sep 09, 2018 2:52 pm

Hey Jay

You really don't need Spell penetration and imp spell penetration. Ditch those two.

Get divine shield pre epic instead. And maybe Still spell if you want to wear armor since you're going for ac. At epics you could get improved mage armor too.

With full plate and shield + EMA + divine shield you'll actually have a pretty decent ac

and don't forget to take epic skill focus discipline at lvl 30. You really want that one!

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Re: Help with a Wild-Elf TrueFlame Paladin?

Post by One Two Three Five » Sun Sep 09, 2018 3:27 pm

This build probably wants auto-quicken more. Being completely real with the OP? In pvp, if you fail to land one of your, idk, bigbies or whatever, it's done for anyway. A slightly lower chance of getting KD'd on a build with (even with fullplate and tower- because TFers cannot cast epic mage armor), like, 43 AC fully self-buffed?

With mage HP? Not getting kd'd isn't going to save you. Do get rid of spell pen and shift divine shield down though. Might be able to squeeze in hellball that way- although I doubt it.
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Re: Help with a Wild-Elf TrueFlame Paladin?

Post by Jayim Duinara » Sun Sep 09, 2018 4:39 pm

I tried running a test build of this in single-player just to see how it leveled up. The problem that I ran into was that I couldn't get Divine Shield until I got my Paladin levels (it requires Turn Undead), and I couldn't get my Paladin levels early or I couldn't properly dump discipline.

I'm more interested in PvE than PvP. I'll defend myself if someone attacks me (and if they do, I'll probably die anyway), but I doubt I'll be starting any confrontations. The point of taking Paladin was mostly for the flavour of it, and to improve my defenses from wet-tissue-paper to dry-tissue-maybe-cardboard; I still intend to be a caster, not melee.

I just couldn't see anything else useful to get instead of Spell Penetration. I mean, I could pick up a couple other meta-magic feats, but I don't really see the point. I've already got Maximize, so Empower is redundant. I don't have any buffing spells, so Extend is useless. The point of Auto-quicken is to get off two spells per turn. If I wear armour, then I need to cast them stilled, but if I do then I'm not using Maximize which sort of negates the point of two spells per turn. If I'm NOT wearing armour, then there isn't any reason to be casting Stilled spells.

Any recommendations for feats other than Spell Penetration?

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Re: Help with a Wild-Elf TrueFlame Paladin?

Post by Ork » Sun Sep 09, 2018 7:08 pm

I think spell pen is actually useful to trueflames since you won't have access to breach or dispels to lower spell resistance.

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Re: Help with a Wild-Elf TrueFlame Paladin?

Post by Jayim Duinara » Mon Sep 10, 2018 1:17 am

Hmm. I can take 4 levels of Paladin instead.

13 Paladin
14 Paladin
15 Paladin - Divine Shield
16 Sorcerer
17 Sorcerer
18 Paladin - Extra Turning (6 more uses of Shield per rest), dump discipline
19 Sorcerer
20 Sorcerer
21 Sorcerer - Epic Skill Focus (Discipline)
22 Sorcerer
23 Sorcerer
24 Sorcerer - Epic Spell Focus (Evocation)
25 Sorcerer
26 Sorcerer
27 Sorcerer - Autoquicken I, Autoquicken II
28 Sorcerer
29 Sorcerer
30 Sorcerer - Autoquicken III, Epic Spell: Greater Ruin

If I calculated correctly, my skills should wind up, 33 Concentration, 31 Discipline, 12 Lore, and 33 Spellcraft.

This has the benefit of giving me my paladin durability early.

So... 10 AC, +14 from Divine Shield, +7 AC from my equipt without Spell Failure. So, 31 AC.

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Re: Help with a Wild-Elf TrueFlame Paladin?

Post by StrykerMontgomery » Mon Sep 10, 2018 2:34 am

Discipline dumping your last lvl might be way more important than a measly 31 ac (which will do squat against epic mobs and player Im sorry but even subpar ab builds are just going to rip through your ac and knockdown you instantly. You want to try break at least 60 discipline (epic skill focus discipline and items and 33 skill dump) to have a solid chance of resisting knockdowns. The more below 60 your total discipline is, the more of a joke/useless it becomes (under 50 is completely useless. 68 i believe is the magic number for resisting almost everything regardless of unlucky rolls. Meteor storm also has a caster cap of 30 and has been hugely buffed. The paladin is worth the trade, but only if you get that discipline of at least 55+
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Re: Help with a Wild-Elf TrueFlame Paladin?

Post by Dr. B » Mon Sep 10, 2018 2:58 am

Are you doing the paladin levels primarily for the RP or because you think this will be mechanically good? Because if the latter, you're much better off going 26/4 True Flame/Bard and going con-based, with 19 charisma. You get UMD and won't need to waste ability points and feat slots for divine shield, which will not be that great on a True Flame anyway.

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Re: Help with a Wild-Elf TrueFlame Paladin?

Post by Jayim Duinara » Mon Sep 10, 2018 4:09 am

...

sigh.

*rubs eyes wearily*

You know, I was originally excited about this character concept.

Hearing all this conflicting advice has really dampened my enthusiasm.

I love being a Sorcerer. I like throwing spells around at whim and the myriad effects they can have.

What I am hearing from people is that they are lame for being wuss non-tanks who get the snot beat out of them.

...

I know that.

I still love being a Sorcerer. I just wanted something to add some flavor, and possibly, just possibly let him not get KO'd in one hit if a Spell went amiss.

...

I LIKE Jayim. I like his history, I like his goals, and I like the personality I was developing for him.

Is Paladin completely pointless? Should I ditch it entirely? Is it worse than a pure caster? Are True Flame Sorcerers REALLY that impossible to play and keep alive? Should I give up and roll a full-plate barbarian?

Should I quit obnoxiously whining and just go back to single-player?

...

Sorry, I have a headache and it's making me depressed.

I've only ever played the single-player main campaign. A 20th level Sorcerer there is a ton of fun. It's starting to sound like a level 30 here is a nightmare.

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Re: Help with a Wild-Elf TrueFlame Paladin?

Post by One Two Three Five » Mon Sep 10, 2018 4:57 am

This forum can get kind of intense but they are genuinely trying to help.

A couple run-downs on Arelith Stuff before I run a build out for you.
1. Yeah, discipline is dope to have. Always. Lots of. There's ways to deal but less are accessible to True Flames.
2. Having played con and cha TFers, they're a challenge, but can be fun if that's what you're looking for (And there's something just so good about hitting things with a million firebrands)
3. Again, the build forum gets intense, partly due to a phenomenon where someone ends up making something, well, nonviable, and feels betrayed by builders etc.

Anyway, given the parameters you've laid down, lets try and do the best we can with this.

I'd do:
13 str/8 dex/14 con/8 wis/14 int/17 cha
Get the Con and Cha gifts for 16 con/19 cha.
7 points into cha puts you at 26 before feats, at 30.

Level plan (I'm gonna skip non-essential levels, hmu if you need clarity)
Sorc 1: Evo focus, greater evo focus
Sorc 3: Power Attack
Sorc 6: Maximize Spell
Sorc 9: Quicken Spell
Sorc 12: Dealer's Choice.
Sorc 15: Dealer's Choice
Paladin at 16, 17, 18.
Paladin (18): Divine Shield
Back to sorc!
Sorc (21): Epic Spell Focus: Evo
Sorc (24): Epic Spell: Greater Ruin
At Sorc 22/Pal 3 (25) your next level will be paladin.
So sorc 22/Pal 4. This eats up your chance to have your last level be paladin for th disc dump (losing you, what, 4 points? I'm an eh on that dog.) And delays your 23 sorc feat to 27.
Sorc (27): Autoquicken 1, Autoquicken 2
Sorc (30): Hellball, Autoquicken 3

Some notes:
No epic disc focus. Look. You aren't a wild mage, you aren't a weavemaster, you aren't a spellsword- and on everything barring the spellsword, I personally don't bother. I've enver otten into pvp or melee enough on my mages for it to be a huge deal, and the one singular example where that did happen killed most people with a gonne or IGMS spam before they could react anyway. It's sub-optimal, even KD bait, but if you care more about the story and PvE D&D adventures you'll have someone watching your back anyway.

Trueflames are best when you have that, so you can stand behind a -guard and lay down incendiary clouds (saveless blind!) and IGMS the poor saps.

Other note: I moved levels and feats around so you can get both epic spells. I hate the idea of playing a TFer without both, for myself.

Final thing: Not gonna tell you its the best way to play a mage, but it's probably in close proximity to the best way to do the concept as laid out (Sorc/Paladin trueflamer focused in electricity spells, charisma-based). Dealer's choice is whatever, I'm sure other people have suggestions. And, from one suboptimal mage to another: Every time you learn new spells, take some time in a safe area and get REAL comfortable with their range. Nothing worse than running out of your darkness globe to cast a spell you thought could hit further away.
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Re: Help with a Wild-Elf TrueFlame Paladin?

Post by Regionals » Mon Sep 10, 2018 6:33 am

(nevermind, said better)
Last edited by Regionals on Mon Sep 10, 2018 9:14 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Commissar
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Re: Help with a Wild-Elf TrueFlame Paladin?

Post by Commissar » Mon Sep 10, 2018 7:28 am

One Two Three Five speaks truth. Your concept is solid. Your build is entirely workable for what you've said you want to do. I played the same build to the epics. You'll be fine. And a PvE god, which is also nice.

True flame is a blast to play.

Really, we're just nitpicking here. You could happily run with most of the builds presented here and have fun with them - And, really, the only gauge for a good build in a game about telling stories is one that lets you tell your character's story. Everything else is window dressing.

Just keep telling stories, and it'll work out fine.
May you live in interesting times.
Manticore, on Sun Elves wrote:Yeah, I'm pretty sure the racism is like a mating ritual or something. Like plumes on birds.

Amineh123
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Re: Help with a Wild-Elf TrueFlame Paladin?

Post by Amineh123 » Mon Sep 10, 2018 11:32 am

You know, an important matter I'd like to tell:

I play a TF/Paladin. My build is pretty much crap. I LOVE it. Never actually super planned anything, just went with the flow of my characters development RP-wise, of course, I did't pick feats or anything randomly, but just as I saw valuable to him.
I can't get enough of playing as a TF honestly - I made a few other character and somehow always go back to him.

Long story short - as long as you like your TF - doesn't matter if you're going to win or lose battles. Just keep on going forward and it's going to be fun, trust me :)

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Dr. B
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Re: Help with a Wild-Elf TrueFlame Paladin?

Post by Dr. B » Mon Sep 10, 2018 1:33 pm

Jayim Duinara wrote:
Mon Sep 10, 2018 4:09 am
...

sigh.

*rubs eyes wearily*

You know, I was originally excited about this character concept.

Hearing all this conflicting advice has really dampened my enthusiasm.

I love being a Sorcerer. I like throwing spells around at whim and the myriad effects they can have.

What I am hearing from people is that they are lame for being wuss non-tanks who get the snot beat out of them.

...

I know that.

I still love being a Sorcerer. I just wanted something to add some flavor, and possibly, just possibly let him not get KO'd in one hit if a Spell went amiss.

...

I LIKE Jayim. I like his history, I like his goals, and I like the personality I was developing for him.

Is Paladin completely pointless? Should I ditch it entirely? Is it worse than a pure caster? Are True Flame Sorcerers REALLY that impossible to play and keep alive? Should I give up and roll a full-plate barbarian?

Should I quit obnoxiously whining and just go back to single-player?

...

Sorry, I have a headache and it's making me depressed.

I've only ever played the single-player main campaign. A 20th level Sorcerer there is a ton of fun. It's starting to sound like a level 30 here is a nightmare.
Dude, relax. I didn't make your post to crap all over your character. I just wanted to make sure you knew what your options were. Something about the wording in your original post lead me to suspect that you thought the TF/Paladin combo was really good; it's definitely not the best TF flame build, and I wanted to make sure you knew that. You can still play the Paladin combo if you want--the main boon will be your high saves. I just don't think Divine Shield is really all that useful on a True Flamer. Divine Shield is really meant for melee builds, who already have a decent AC score from other sources (armor, shield, helmet, feats, Tumble, etc.). You're much better off bringing a friend and staying out of melee range entirely.

I'd also advise taking a look at my signature. Both parts.

StrykerMontgomery
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Re: Help with a Wild-Elf TrueFlame Paladin?

Post by StrykerMontgomery » Mon Sep 10, 2018 1:46 pm

Yeah the section of forums sometimes sucks the soul out of it lol

Just go with the last build mentioned with the one two three five guy. I just thought all this focus on divine shield was a little tunnel vision with fourth paladin lvl being pre epic just for extra turn undead.

Your concept is totally valid.
Currently played characters:
Have not played for over a year, thinking of returning again

Jayim Duinara
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Re: Help with a Wild-Elf TrueFlame Paladin?

Post by Jayim Duinara » Mon Sep 10, 2018 2:57 pm

*note to self: apparently sleep deprivation and long road trips make me maudlin*

Okay, I'm very, VERY sorry for the way I sounded in my last post; reading it again after a good nights sleep is downright embarrassing.

I want to thank ALL of you for your advice. I did not at all mean to be unappreciative. =( The learning curve for this stuff is just so steep, I'd be completely lost bumbling through on my own.

That build sounds like I can do that. I can blast things PvE, and I hope to make friends and adventure with them anyway.

Again, thank you all, and I'm sorry for the whining.

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