Ranger & Dispel CL

[Wytchee]

H'ooookay. Hello again. I'm going back and forth between builds for my next character, and while I'm leaning towards 27 Ranger / 3 Bard I have some massive hangups about the mechanics of the class, specifically the fact that any use whatsoever of the Ranger spellbook sets all UMD items to their item level for the purposes of dispel until the server resets.

(For example!)

A 27 Ranger/3 Rogue who has NOT cast a spell from the Ranger spellbook will drink a Clarity potion and the resulting mind immunity will have a caster level of 30 for the purpose of dispelling. A 27 Ranger/3 Rogue who HAS cast from a Ranger spellbook will drink a Clarity potion and the resulting mind immunity will have a caster level of 3 (!) for the purpose of dispelling.

Note: it's been widely reported that casting from a class's spellbook sets the CL of items to the caster level of that class. Apparently this is incorrect and that it instead resets the CL of UMD items to the default caster level of the item (what is listed in parentheses when examining the item). There seems to be some debate about this, anyway.

This seems to be a huge weakness, as it means anyone with a scroll of Greater Dispelling can strip a Ranger of all of her wards that were applied via the use of wands or scrolls. The only way not to suffer the crippling effects of even a scroll of Greater Dispelling is to never, ever use the Ranger spellbook, which is... really super lame.

I guess my question is, how do epic rangers get by with this in mind? Do you find your wards being easily stripped by dispel-spamming mobs, or is it not as frustrating as I expect it will be? Thanks!

[susitsu]

Rangers easily build around 21 ranger levels as a comment. Your example uses rogue instead of bard, so I'm addressing both. As far as bard is comcerned, you shouldn't have the charisma to cast any spells. If you were say a paladin dip, yes, casting a bard spell would cause a potion following to behave as if cast by a level 3 bard.

As for rogue built, ranger is a caster class and therefore mundane cl mechanics are irrelevant. Additionally, if you were a weapon master with rogue levels, your cl on a potion would be based on your current total level or hitedice instead of class levels.

As far as I know, all these mechanics function the same for rangers.

[Wytchee]

As for rogue built, ranger is a caster class and therefore mundane cl mechanics are irrelevant. Additionally, if you were a weapon master with rogue levels, your cl on a potion would be based on your current total level or hitedice instead of class levels.

Perhaps you didn't read my entire post. I am told this is a misconception of how CL works.

A character with 27 ranger levels who casts from the ranger spell book and then drinks a clarity potion (again, just an example) would have a CL of 3, not 27, for the purpose of dispelling that clarity potion. Likewise for a character with 21 ranger levels.

I am told this affects ALL caster classes, so even if a level 30 wild mage casts a spell from her spellbook, her CL 15 wand of Fox's Cunning would then have a CL of 15, not 30, for the purpose of dispels.

[susitsu]

I do understand. Ive stated the mechanics, without misconception to be made. What you're suggesting either is made up entirely by some random or this is a bug. Otherwise, the mechanics function exactly as stated without exception. Your concern is for something that simply does not exist or is a pressing issue of EE's that needs to be dealt with.

[Wytchee]

viewtopic.php?p=158124#p158124

So this is incorrect?

[susitsu]

I didn't specify you login to an unreset server, your potion cl for the purposes of dispelling would be equal to your total hitdice, no. But your ranger spells and items used after them will always dispel at your ranger cl. All you have to do to establish the class used with an item is cast a spell. I also don't see anything incorrect in that thread either.

[Wytchee]

But your ranger spells and items used after them will always dispel at your ranger cl. ... I also don't see anything incorrect in that thread either.

If you DO use any of your class spells, from either class, then the CL on items changes to what's listed (in parentheses) after the spell in the item description.

So, just to be clear, Baron Saturday is wrong here?

[susitsu]

A very important phrase to consider often is "for the purposes of dispelling CL-"

Baron isn't wrong as far as I understand. Duration tends to be seperate from dispelling cl when actually having to think about your dispelling cl.

[Wytchee]

A very important phrase to consider often is "for the purposes of dispelling CL-"

Baron isn't wrong as far as I understand. Duration tends to be seperate from dispelling cl when actually having to think about your dispelling cl.

That comment was linked by a "Dispel Mechanics" hyperlink in another thread, so evidently some people think this is how Dispelling works.

[Baron Saturday]

My understanding is that once you've cast something from your spellbook, any spells cast from items are considered to be the CL on the item in regards to dispel checks.

[susitsu]

Ive always been fairly certain item dispelling took into account your current cl, though I'll need to re-check some things when I'm not on a phone. A very simple answer to ease your burden is to just do what a battle cleric would do: Send your summon (re-summonable animal companion) ahead to eat dispels. You won't be able to avoid every dispel since sometimes caster mobs open with it after swapping aggro, but this will uncompliate your life a bit.

[Wytchee]

My understanding is that once you've cast something from your spellbook, any spells cast from items are considered to be the CL on the item in regards to dispel checks.

That was my understanding as well. Thanks for clearing that up.

I'm gonna give Rangers and Paladins a wide berth until this is no longer the case. ^.^

[Kenji]

I think the moral of the story here is to use all of your wands and potions before you start buffing yourself with ranger spells.

[Wytchee]

I think the moral of the story here is to use all of your wands and potions before you start buffing yourself with ranger spells.

You can do this once, then your CL is set until reset.

[Hunter548]

My understanding is that once you've cast something from your spellbook, any spells cast from items are considered to be the CL on the item in regards to dispel checks.

This is correct; Susitsu is incorrect.

[Kenji]

I'm gonna give Rangers and Paladins a wide berth until this is no longer the case. ^.^

Not much of a loss on Paladin there, mechanically boring class that is also a one-trick pony with even stricter RP makes for boring gameplay.

But Rangers, oh boy, the things you can do with both mechanical and RP interpretation of the class are far more fun to be discouraged by something as trivial as being dispelled! Rangers aren't toothless even if dispelled, and, sure, the ranged variant may be overshadowed by AAs, the overall leveling curve is a lot smoother than any class I have experienced so far.

Get a horse at lvl3 (Surface only), animal companion at 6, more consistent AE as the ranger levels up, too. The ranger can either be a lone wolf with his warband of animals or contribute to a team as an archer and mundane melee booster (blade thirst on all of your melee friends? Sure!). Set traps before the boss? No problem. HiPS to dodge foes in natural areas? Done. Scout ahead to see what's up? Got it. Snipe the casters down at max engine draw distance? By all means!

I'm sure there are more competent PvP or PvE classes out there that I have yet experienced, but my experience with the 4 rangers (of various builds) has been a positive one.

[susitsu]

Due apologies Wytchee, I was at the end of a long work day and misread some things in the first place. Kenji is also right about the strength of rangers. I could see harper ranger being right up your alley.

Getting someone else to buff you would also help.

[Jagel]

Roll a ranger or pally if you feel like playing one. I am pretty sure changing the way this works is not in the pipeline

[StrykerMontgomery]

So melee rangers might have troubles with their umd buffs?