The Gift of Craftsmanship: Trade Skill Distribution

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Kenji3108
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The Gift of Craftsmanship: Trade Skill Distribution

Post by Kenji3108 » Sun Sep 02, 2018 1:38 am

This thread focuses on the distribution of points for crafting whether a PC has taken the gift of craftsmanship or not.
Lvl30 provides 60 total trade skill to be distributed, the Gift of Craftsmanship provides another 10, and race provides 1, thus a total of 71.

Keep in mind that crafting-oriented PCs might want to have the strength score to carry most of the materials, see this link for more information.

We start with the 6 crafting skills and some of the good breaking point for distribution. Things to consider are whether a craft is a consumable or not! Dedicating skill points into a 1-time craft can be often seen as wasted if there are ways to secure the initial template (God Saves). Unless certain non-consumable craft is in high demand (Masterly Damask weapons, for example).

Forging (Dwarf, Half-Orc, Hobgoblin):
12 - Gold, silver, brass, bronze ingots for other crafts, fixtures as well.
18 - Repair Kits
43 - Masterwork Runes
51 - Masterly Damask Weapons

Carpentry (Elf):
18 - Repair Kits
20 - All Fixtures
19~26 - Instruments
38 - Masterwork Runes, Ashwood Stabilizer (available from Alchemy)
47/50 - Ashwood Bow/Crossbow

Tailoring (Human, Drow):
1 - All pieces of cloth and leather
13 - Gem Bag, Spell Component Pouch
18 - Repair Kits, all fixtures
38 - Masterwork Runes
42~46 - Non-ranger, but high tier cloaks and armors
54 - Runic Ranger's Armors (Shirt/Studded Leather)

Art Crafting (Half-Elf):
1 - Glass, bottles, Malachite and Greenstone
17 - Spell Component
20 - All gems
22 - All Fixtures
38 - Masterwork Runes, Prisms
44 - Headband of Protection

Herbalism (Halfling, Wild Dwarf):
4 - Tanning Acid (used for Tailoring)
13 - Flask of Oil (used for repair kits) & Mojos (required for Potions of Heal and Attunement)
19 - Potion of Heal
26 - Poisons (30 for all, may need Alchemy at 20 for Arsenic)
28 - Abeyant Template (available from Alchemy)
33 - Healing Kits +10, Dragon Oil

Alchemy (Gnome):
14 - Skleen, Dust of Appearance
17 - Spell Component
22 - All essences and catalysts
28 - Abeyant Template (available from Herbalism)
33 - Ashwood Stabilizer (available from Carpentry), Dragon Oil (available from Herbalism)
Last edited by Kenji3108 on Sun May 05, 2019 10:30 am, edited 26 times in total.

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Trade Skill Distribution

Post by Kenji3108 » Sun Sep 02, 2018 1:39 am

Foreword:
Keep in mind that the current system favors careful point distribution over mastery, as any skill points invested beyond the highest (DC-2) of a craft gives no benefits other than the mechanical interpretation for RP. This means folks do not have to invest up to 50 points in order to be successful crafters, they can always mix and match the other skills to see what they want out of their crafting experience.

Master Smiths:

Code: Select all

Trade Skills	Master	Rune
Forging		51	43
Tailoring	18	18
Art Crafting	1	1
Herbalism	0(1)	8(9)
Master Tailor/Seamstress:

Code: Select all

Trade Skills	Master	Rune	Expert
Tailoring	52	38(39)	45
Herbalism	4	13	3(4)
Forging		13(14)	18	0
Art Crafting	1	1	22
Master Carpenter/Woodworker:

Code: Select all

Trade Skills	Master	Rune	Fletcher
Carpentry	50	38(39)	28
Herbalism	10	12	1
Forging		8(9)	18	1
Tailoring	1	1	17(18)
Art Crafting	1	1	1
Alchemy		0	0	22
Maester/Master Artist/Artisan

Code: Select all

Trade Skills	Master	Rune
Art Crafting	44	38
Alchemy		22	22
Forging		2(3)	8(9)
Tailoring	1	1
Herbalism	1	1
Alchemy/Herbalism

Code: Select all

Trade Skills	Potion	Chemist	QMstr	Arcnist	Advntr
Alchemy		22	33	22	22	0
Herbalism	33	7	11(12)	28	33
Forging		13(14)	9(10)	18	0	18
Tailoring	1	1	18	1	18
Art Crafting	1	20	1	19(20)	1(2)
Miscellaneous:

Code: Select all

Trade Skills	Fixture	Hndyman	Bag Mkr	Jrnlist	Mchnic
Carpentry	20	18	13	18	0
Forging		11(12)	18	20	18	25
Tailoring	16	18	16(17)	13	1
Art Crafting	22	3(4)	20	20	13(14)
Herbalism	1	13	1	3(4)	13
Alchemy		0	0	0	3	18
Last edited by Kenji3108 on Mon May 06, 2019 10:57 am, edited 31 times in total.

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Craftsmanship

Post by Kenji3108 » Sun Sep 02, 2018 1:46 am

Hi guys,

To kick off the thread's discussion, I'd like to ask folks to:
  • double check the craft's DC as well as possible points to distribute.
  • Provide insight and experience in regards to whether dedicating skills to achieve mastery in a certain craft (50+) is worth the investment, or would you have rather done something different?
  • What is your PC's current crafting skill distribution?
  • What terminologies do you use to avoid OOC tells in order to convey information?
    Things such as progress points completed, mastery of a certain craft, how many time you need in order to complete the craft, what do you call the initial craft (templates? Patterns? assembly?), and etc.
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Re: The Gift of Craftsmanship

Post by TimeAdept » Sun Sep 02, 2018 4:07 am

Provide insight and experience in regards to whether dedicating skills to achieve mastery in a certain craft (50+) is worth the investment, or would you have rather done something different?
I think a big decision is whether or not you want to be able to make Masterly Damask Forging items. You can shave a lot of points out of forging if you're willing to forsake being a "master forger". The same goes for carpentry and tailoring. Of these I would consider forging the most important to go high end in, as high end forging items also have very high DCs to repair - and forging also has the most annoying necessary item for their repair kits (oil flasks). For tailoring and Carpentry I'd probably be OK stopping at runes.
What is your PC's current crafting skill distribution?
I planned to do your high forging distribution, but as a human starting with Tailoring 1 for free, you can afford a 2nd craft at 1 - likely Herbalism to make my own oil flasks, but otherwise identical.

Other layouts I've done were 42 artcrafting 28 herbalism (poisons), 30 alchemy 30 artcrafting (my first character, and made before the new helms, and abeyant templates and runes were added), and 38 tailor 20 artcrafting 1 herbalism 1 carpentry (to spam chances for cheap fixtures).

I would also consider 28 alch (templates), and some unknown spread for the rest, probably a repair kit pickup, with 1 point of arts for cheap gems and glass. I feel ALL PCs should strongly consider 1 point of arts to be able to make glass, bottles, vials, greenstone, and malachite, which are always in demand. It takes 17 alchemy or 17 artscrafting to make spell components, and I would consider that a valuable breakpoint to consider stopping at as well. I have funded 4 multimillionaire characters almost entirely off the backs of temporary essences and spell components. There's basically 0 cost to your mats (lead, glass, brass, cheap 2 GP gems people want to get rid of en masse) and you sell them for massive profit.
What terminologies do you use to avoid OOC tells in order to convey information?
Things such as progress points completed, mastery of a certain craft, how many time you need in order to complete the craft, what do you call the initial craft (templates? Patterns? assembly?), and etc.
I'm pretty vague. I call a full set of crafting points a "day's work". Objects are just "works in progress". If something takes 5 cycles it'll be done in 5 days. I would consider a "Master" of a craft to be able to manufacture any object that craft makes with only a 5% failure chance. I feel like the more specific I get the more "Gamey" I have to get with my terminology.

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Re: The Gift of Craftsmanship

Post by strong yeet » Sun Sep 02, 2018 6:29 am

The ashwood stabiliser is DC 35 (so, 33 skill, just like the dragon oil) for Alchemy, my current character has 33 alchemy and it's served pretty well.

Edit: Dust of appearance too

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Re: The Gift of Craftsmanship

Post by Kenji3108 » Mon Sep 03, 2018 9:11 pm

Does anyone know if subraces will change the initial trade skill? Such as Shield Dwarf vs Wild Dwarf, regular Half-Elf vs Hobgoblin, Hin vs Goblin, etc.

And what's Half-Elf's initial trade skill again? I haven't bothered to test it yet.

Last but not least, I'll try and come up with a better format for the distribution post.
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Re: The Gift of Craftsmanship

Post by ltlukoziuz » Mon Sep 03, 2018 10:23 pm

What terminologies do you use to avoid OOC tells in order to convey information?
Things such as progress points completed, mastery of a certain craft, how many time you need in order to complete the craft, what do you call the initial craft (templates? Patterns? assembly?), and etc.
When I had only a few points in artistry, and needed to make something of higher DC without mucking up a material, I just asked the person to "inspect my materials", and see if my granite and other materials were solid and that they wouldn't break mid crafting.

When describing expertise (I actually even employ this for spell foci) - split them into "Elder Scrolls"-like way. Apprentice is someone just beginning the craft or doing a bit of minor work, like ingot work. Journeyman is just above middle point, I call myself one in case of holding GSpellFs but not ESFs, and likewise so when someone asks me for Artistry work. And then Master for when the only thing hidden from one are racial/classial crafts. I also give an example when describing my crafting capability, to give a display of what could be made DC wise. I have only 20 Art Crafting, and in the writing I wrote advertising my capabilities, I've added in a note that "asking for a portal lens would be the most I could do for one."

As for times needed to do a craft, the thing I saw both with myself and with others, you just avoid the time aspect for anything that is 50+ points. People aren't 24/7 up, so you cant really predict the frquency of how often will they login to hammer on that project.

EDIT: By the way, my professions are 20 Art Crafting, 33 Alchemy, 17 Tailoring (and one carpentry, because race), as I wanted to be doing most of items that others would need. This gives me the repair kits, full mastery of alchemy, and portal lenses/rare gem cutting. I also thought about 20 AC, 22 Alchemy, 14 Tailoring and 14 Forging, to be able to make both types of repair kits, but I thought against that.
In the past I did 6 Art Crafting (should've pushed extra point or two for topazes) (minor gems and casting molds for arrow making), and then Carpentry onwards (wasnt Gift of Crafts).

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Re: The Gift of Craftsmanship

Post by Atlantahammy » Mon Sep 03, 2018 10:37 pm

Image
This is Astra's current set with the craftsmenship gift, she also has a crafting god due to me getting angry of rolling two 1's in a row on runes I should not of failed.

I find this pretty nice since I can make both types of componates, on top of being able to craft most the warding essences which was my goal, had the unforeseen effect of being able to make dragon oil over the course of a few days to supplement the fact I can make the memory prisms.

I do think this load out could be improved for such though, if a few the 1's i invested could be moved over to alchemy.

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Re: The Gift of Craftsmanship

Post by Mastersir3 » Mon Sep 03, 2018 11:19 pm

Kenji3108 wrote:
Sun Sep 02, 2018 1:38 am

Alchemy (Gnome):
14 - Skleen, Dust of Appearance
22 - All essences and catalysts
28 - Abeyant Template (available from Herbalism, too)
33 - Ashwood Stabilizer (Alchemy only!), Dragon Oil (available from Herbalism, too)
I'd just like to add that you can craft Ashwood Stabilizers using Carpentry as well.

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Re: The Gift of Craftsmanship

Post by Kenji3108 » Tue Sep 04, 2018 12:19 am

Mastersir3 wrote:
Mon Sep 03, 2018 11:19 pm
I'd just like to add that you can craft Ashwood Stabilizers using Carpentry as well.
Fixed, thx
Atlantahammy wrote:
Mon Sep 03, 2018 10:37 pm
This is Astra's current set with the craftsmenship gift, she also has a crafting god due to me getting angry of rolling two 1's in a row on runes I should not of failed.

I find this pretty nice since I can make both types of componates, on top of being able to craft most the warding essences which was my goal, had the unforeseen effect of being able to make dragon oil over the course of a few days to supplement the fact I can make the memory prisms.

I do think this load out could be improved for such though, if a few the 1's i invested could be moved over to alchemy.
I was just talking to another "Master Artisan" IG a short while ago before this post, she is currently 50+ art crafting and is hoping that future updates might provide higher DC crafts such as rings and what not.

Currently the highest DC craft for Art Crafting is 46, this means a 44 of art crafting is the highest investment of trade skills without having anything further to be wasted. I'd probably just do 44 AC / 22 Alch and whatever remaining points allocated to wherever folks need them. The 1 point in tailoring (most basic cloth and leather) is fine, so is 1 in herbalism (80% on tanning acids), not sure about the 1 in carpentry. I'd probably put the three points left in Forging for ingots.

I have been thinking about putting up a "Mastery Roll" suggestion for crafting, the idea is to provide a second roll vs DC+20 on top of the first roll vs DC. It'll augment the result if successful, and does nothing if failed. This way it changes almost nothing but rewards the PCs who dedicated mastery to certain crafts. It might change the economy, too, but that's beyond my scope of speculation.
ltlukoziuz wrote:
Mon Sep 03, 2018 10:23 pm
When describing expertise (I actually even employ this for spell foci) - split them into "Elder Scrolls"-like way. Apprentice is someone just beginning the craft or doing a bit of minor work, like ingot work. Journeyman is just above middle point, I call myself one in case of holding GSpellFs but not ESFs, and likewise so when someone asks me for Artistry work. And then Master for when the only thing hidden from one are racial/classial crafts. I also give an example when describing my crafting capability, to give a display of what could be made DC wise. I have only 20 Art Crafting, and in the writing I wrote advertising my capabilities, I've added in a note that "asking for a portal lens would be the most I could do for one."
I had thought about using the elder scroll's skill system for making the information more transparent, as well!
1-10 = Novice | 11-20 = Apprentice | 21-30 = Journeyman | 31-40 = Expert | 41-50 = Master | 51+ = Grand Master

The one I have implemented in Skaljard (via my PC's own board) is a lot more lenient than the aforementioned, since most folks in Skaljard usually leave by the time they reach enough level to get over 30+ skill in a trade, anyway. Using a fully scaled one would just discourage folks from advertising themselves, or so I speculate. It might even give the wrong impression of "this crafter isn't good enough for a certain job because I always need a master!" if they are relatively new to the crafting system.

But it is a good idea to use a certain craft to indicate where one's at. "Runesmith" can indicate that the smith is probably good enough for most forging runes (38 & 43) for example. The whole attaching ranks based on numerical values from Elder Scrolls can still be misinforming at times if not all players are consistent about it.
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Re: The Gift of Craftsmanship

Post by Dracorid3r » Sun Sep 23, 2018 8:28 pm

Shameful bump, use this so much..

I don't suppose this could be stickied? lol

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Re: The Gift of Craftsmanship: Trade Skill Distribution

Post by TroubledWaters » Thu Oct 04, 2018 9:26 pm

For forging, the Masterly Barbed Slayer (club) is DC 60, so if you wanna crank those out as a dwarf you will only be able to throw 2 in tailoring and 1 in art.

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Re: The Gift of Craftsmanship: Trade Skill Distribution

Post by Ork » Sat Oct 06, 2018 1:25 pm

Sticky please!

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Re: The Gift of Craftsmanship: Trade Skill Distribution

Post by Kenji3108 » Sun Nov 11, 2018 5:35 am

Can anyone share their experiences with poisons? I personally haven't mass produced or used those much, but I see the potential of the usage of those leading to interesting RP opportunities.

Would it be prudent to include some skill cutoff for poisons?
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Re: The Gift of Craftsmanship: Trade Skill Distribution

Post by TimeAdept » Sun Nov 11, 2018 8:19 am

Eyeblast is super worth it.

Elemental Rime is good for gimmick situations and spellswords.

Widow's Bane seems hilarious. Never used. Would explode spiders from people again, A+++.

None of the rest seem very great.

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Re: The Gift of Craftsmanship: Trade Skill Distribution

Post by Ork » Sun Nov 11, 2018 3:25 pm

Cave terror is easy to make & great against low will opponents.

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Re: The Gift of Craftsmanship: Trade Skill Distribution

Post by Kenji3108 » Tue Jan 08, 2019 9:13 pm

Hi guys,

With the new update on Crafting Points regeneration, I have tested that every server tick (6 minutes IRL, 1 hour IG) has the following regen rate:

50CP: 2/tick
60CP: Alternates in between 2/tick to 3/tick
70CP: 2/tick at first, then 3/tick until the decimals are exhausted.

If somehow anyone has 3 CP per tick, please let us know how many maximum CP your PC has and at what skill level for craft armor/weapon as well as the feats.

Thanks in advance,
Kenji
Last edited by Kenji3108 on Tue Jan 08, 2019 9:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The Gift of Craftsmanship: Trade Skill Distribution

Post by Xerah » Tue Jan 08, 2019 9:36 pm

You can get 2 points from 70 per tick, but it saves the decimal and you'll get more next turn.

My character gets 3 then 4 CP per tick.
There's nothing wrong with the enchantment/dweoermercraft god save.
Your bad luck is within a standard deviation.

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Re: The Gift of Craftsmanship: Trade Skill Distribution

Post by Kenji3108 » Tue Jan 08, 2019 9:47 pm

Right, I just figured that out. The decimals are actually accumulative! This encourages flexibility when it comes to skill distribution (if craft armor/weapon is involved) so players can know that their investments into CP aren't always wasted.

Continuing on with the extrapolation, then:
50 CP = 2/tick, 3/tick at 12th tick
60 CP = alternate in b/w 2/tick and 3/tick
72 CP = 3/tick
84 CP = alternate in b/w 3/tick and 4/tick
96 CP = 4/tick

Please verify these calculations if able.
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Re: The Gift of Craftsmanship: Trade Skill Distribution

Post by Kenji3108 » Sun Mar 03, 2019 9:37 pm

New Spread Introduced:
Arcanist
Herbalism 28
Alchemy 22
Art Crafting 19
Tailoring 1
Note: Racial trade point preferably into one of the above so Art Crafting can be 20.

The spread is capable of crafting the following crafts:
Spell Components (Both Alchemy and Art Crafting)
Chisel all gems
Abeyant Template (w/ Herbalism 28)
All Catalysts/Essences
Skleens, Mojos, Potion of Heal, and Potion of Attunement

Expert Tailor
Tailoring 45
Art Crafting 22
Herbalism 3
Note: Racial trade point preferably into one of the above so Herbalism can be 4.

The spread can safely craft most of the non-class or non-racial tailoring crafts. All the while having fast access to gem dusts by being able to chisel the rough gems itself.

Last but not least, all characters are encouraged to put at least 1 trade skill in Tailoring and Art Crafting (maybe even herbalism) as TimeAdept has stated before. Best be done at the low level if possible, as this actually opens up a few interactions for said PC to help on crafting some of the basic crafts.
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Re: The Gift of Craftsmanship: Trade Skill Distribution

Post by Ork » Mon Mar 04, 2019 9:08 pm

Thank you for the pin!

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Re: The Gift of Craftsmanship: Trade Skill Distribution

Post by Mattamue » Tue Apr 16, 2019 3:12 am

Journalist crafter? Build your own media empire.

Code: Select all

Trade Skills	Journalist(61)*	Journalist(70)^	PRODUCTS/components(DC)
Alchemy		3		3		PRINTING INK(5)
Art Craft	19		19		QUILL PEN(21)
Carpentry	13		18		BOOK(1), PAPER(1), NOTEBOOK(12), WOODCUT(15) // REPAIR KIT(20)
Forging		14		18		brass ingot(16) // REPAIR KIT (20)
Herbalism	4		4		tanning acid(6)
Tailoring	8		8		medium leather(3), BOOK BAG(10)
*Drop 1 point off of herbalism if you do not have the trade skill gift. Tanning acid's components are more plentiful than printing ink's.
^70 points with the gift, invest the remainder into carpentry and forging for the repair kits side hustle; outsourcing flasks of oil.

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Re: The Gift of Craftsmanship: Trade Skill Distribution

Post by Mattamue » Wed May 01, 2019 2:50 am

Mechanic: grenadelike & thief tools

Still a little short on art craft for the sapphire dust, with all 71 points, but that's just the one component for thunderstones.

Code: Select all

Skill		Mechanic	Items
Alchemy		18		GRENADELIKE(20)
Art Craft	14		glass vial(3), fluorspar(6), sapphire dust(19)
Carpentry	0
Forging		25		THIEF TOOL +12(27)
Herbalism	13		flask of oil(15)
Tailoring	1		small leather(1)

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Re: The Gift of Craftsmanship: Trade Skill Distribution

Post by Kenji3108 » Sun May 05, 2019 11:29 am

Updated the Distribution Post (2nd post) with parenthesis for any unused point from racial craft skill.

Also, fixed Fletcher and Bag Maker distribution as they had a discrepancy in the sum of skill points.

Last but not least, Mattamue's distribution spreads are added with a few minor modifications. Great ideas all around.
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