Shadow dancer shadow mages
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Shadow dancer shadow mages
So does the plus caster levels allow shadow mages to get higher spells similar to pale master? Was wondering if one coul epic shadow after polymorphing.
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Have not played for over a year, thinking of returning again
Re: Shadow dancer shadow mages
It doesn't function like that. SD on Shadow Mage is a trap - don't do it.
Re: Shadow dancer shadow mages
I know that Shadowdancer add +1 caster level per level for Shadow Mage.
Does the +1 caster level applies to both Dispel resist DC and Spell Penetration DC?
Does the +1 caster level applies to both Dispel resist DC and Spell Penetration DC?
Re: Shadow dancer shadow mages
Yes, it does, but
SD on Shadow Mage is a trap - don't do it.
Re: Shadow dancer shadow mages
Yea i do understand that...
But the full caster level in dispel resist and spell penetration makes it tempting.
God knows how annoying dispels are.
And SD do give some good skills to invest... Well no discipline skill though... But any legit warrior will still knock us down even if we max out the discipline.
But the full caster level in dispel resist and spell penetration makes it tempting.
God knows how annoying dispels are.
And SD do give some good skills to invest... Well no discipline skill though... But any legit warrior will still knock us down even if we max out the discipline.
Re: Shadow dancer shadow mages
For a shadow mage, I figure you either ought to simply splash SD (like 26/4 wizard or sorc/SD), or you're making a build where you essentially forego the casting and just focus on SD.
Just remember that wizard/sorc don't get hide or MS as class skills, while SD does. SD also gets tumble. That alone I think makes the dip worth it, since otherwise the HIPS they get is kind of wasted.
Just remember that wizard/sorc don't get hide or MS as class skills, while SD does. SD also gets tumble. That alone I think makes the dip worth it, since otherwise the HIPS they get is kind of wasted.
Re: Shadow dancer shadow mages
Stop recommending pople take SD with shadow mage.
Taking more levels in Wizard.
26 wizard (Shadowmage) / 4 bard. Bard gets all hide skills, tumble, discipline, UMD.
There's a reason the builds are considered the gold standard.
You know what else gets full caster level?But the full caster level in dispel resist and spell penetration makes it tempting.
Taking more levels in Wizard.
26 wizard (Shadowmage) / 4 bard. Bard gets all hide skills, tumble, discipline, UMD.
There's a reason the builds are considered the gold standard.
Re: Shadow dancer shadow mages
Shadow mages get HiPS at caster level 20 specifically to discourage people from taking Shadowdancer levels because the class is broken in its current incarnation. *Do not take Shadowdancer levels on a shadow mage.* It has absolutely zero synergy.
Supposedly shadow mages are being worked on but who knows when that will be.
Supposedly shadow mages are being worked on but who knows when that will be.
Current character: Abigail Duskwood
Re: Shadow dancer shadow mages
Well
I had also considered bard but SD gives full caster level and also tumbler, hide and ms required with Spot skill for RP purposes.
The most important for me is caster level though...
Because a dispel roll is cap at 26
1-20droll + 26 = Max at 46
With full caster level at 32 (arcane def abjuration)
46 Vs 12 + 32 = 44dc
Means they can only roll 19 or 20 to dispel me
But if 4bard level, the simply need to roll above 14 to dispel me and that's really risky and above 12 if no Arcane def abjuration...
Also, I do not need to take Spell Penetration and greater spell penetration feat too... since 4 caster level gives +4 penetration as well.
Well, full wizard class for full caster level is totally a bad build without tumble, hide, ms and spot skill etc.
It's a tough choice for me...
I had also considered bard but SD gives full caster level and also tumbler, hide and ms required with Spot skill for RP purposes.
The most important for me is caster level though...
Because a dispel roll is cap at 26
1-20droll + 26 = Max at 46
With full caster level at 32 (arcane def abjuration)
46 Vs 12 + 32 = 44dc
Means they can only roll 19 or 20 to dispel me
But if 4bard level, the simply need to roll above 14 to dispel me and that's really risky and above 12 if no Arcane def abjuration...
Also, I do not need to take Spell Penetration and greater spell penetration feat too... since 4 caster level gives +4 penetration as well.
Well, full wizard class for full caster level is totally a bad build without tumble, hide, ms and spot skill etc.
It's a tough choice for me...
Re: Shadow dancer shadow mages
There is no reason to take spell penetration feats if you have more than 26 caster levels. You rarely encounter anything with more than 32 SR, and when you do, a well-placed Mords will lower it by 10.
If you are worried about being dispelled, 27/3 is still pretty resistant to being dispelled. There's no reason to go 26/4 unless you're planning on pushing your level 20 wizard feat into epics by taking three bard levels pre-20.
Bard grants you discipline, which is a must-have in PvP, and judging by your other thread your character is a necromancer, so expect to PvP a lot. Bard also has hide, move silently and tumble. Bard also has listen, which in some situations is better than spot for the purposes of detecting sneaky characters. A wand of Amplify is +20 to listen for 5 whole minutes.
If you are worried about being dispelled, 27/3 is still pretty resistant to being dispelled. There's no reason to go 26/4 unless you're planning on pushing your level 20 wizard feat into epics by taking three bard levels pre-20.
Bard grants you discipline, which is a must-have in PvP, and judging by your other thread your character is a necromancer, so expect to PvP a lot. Bard also has hide, move silently and tumble. Bard also has listen, which in some situations is better than spot for the purposes of detecting sneaky characters. A wand of Amplify is +20 to listen for 5 whole minutes.
Current character: Abigail Duskwood
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Re: Shadow dancer shadow mages
RIght so You can summon shadow after polymorph self at which point shadow takes your polymorphs str dex con. Untested with shapeshift. The issue is shadow hd is based off sd lvls so your shadow hd is only 3 if you're only 3 sd. This means your shadow ends up doing jack for dmg because of low bab. It is super tanky if you are high con though.StrykerMontgomery wrote: ↑Wed Aug 29, 2018 12:14 amSo does the plus caster levels allow shadow mages to get higher spells similar to pale master? Was wondering if one coul epic shadow after polymorphing.
You can get decent base stats by Bulls + Cats + Endurance then polymorph then summon then un polymorph then re Bulls + Cats + Endurance on the shadow. This isn't enough though because base attack is bad so you get like no dmg. You could theoretically get 51 str shadow red drag assuming it works with shapeshift as well. with double maximized bulls str.
How the double stat buffs work is you shadow takes your final str dex con as its base. This allows you to stat buff them again once they are summoned.
Also if you summon shadow after polymorph into umber hulk the shadow will appear as a umber hulk.
Cookie cutter wiz is better but here are some Sd dip options off the top of my head:
26 sm 4 sd - Good: 30 cls evasion Bad: no disc, amplify, umd, and lose a epic bonus feat
23 sm 7sd - Good: 30 cls, evasion, slippery mind, Bad: no disc, amplify, umd, and lose 2 epic bonus feats
23 sm 4sd 3 bard - Good: 27 cls , evasion , disc, Bad lose 2 epic feats.
Clever leveling can change the lvl 20 wiz bonus feat into an epic feat reducing one epic wiz feat loss be a reg wiz bonus feat loss in certain cases.
Olivia Webb - Gnome ShadowMage
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Re: Shadow dancer shadow mages
There's no real good reason to go SD on a shadow mage. Like has been mentioned, its a noob trap.
Re: Shadow dancer shadow mages
You give up bigby spells and IGMS for +2 DC on spells everyone can easily buf against. Going shadow mage is not that great a choice already.
And as a wizard the only really mechanical viable choice is taking 3-4 levels of bard or ranger for your discipline dip. Bard for UMD, ranger for extra feat.
And as a wizard the only really mechanical viable choice is taking 3-4 levels of bard or ranger for your discipline dip. Bard for UMD, ranger for extra feat.
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Re: Shadow dancer shadow mages
And Hips, which I think is extremely much more "immediate" functional than casting a spell. (It can be done immediately after casting spell rather than duration of casting another spell and see invisibility does not block it).Alox wrote: ↑Tue Sep 11, 2018 4:12 amYou give up bigby spells and IGMS for +2 DC on spells everyone can easily buf against. Going shadow mage is not that great a choice already.
And as a wizard the only really mechanical viable choice is taking 3-4 levels of bard or ranger for your discipline dip. Bard for UMD, ranger for extra feat.
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Re: Shadow dancer shadow mages
And unfortunately ranger is locked out to sm cause you lose shar if you go ranger.Alox wrote: ↑Tue Sep 11, 2018 4:12 amYou give up bigby spells and IGMS for +2 DC on spells everyone can easily buf against. Going shadow mage is not that great a choice already.
And as a wizard the only really mechanical viable choice is taking 3-4 levels of bard or ranger for your discipline dip. Bard for UMD, ranger for extra feat.
I've put my sm on hold until the path is fixed which is a shame cause omg I love playing Olivia.
Olivia Webb - Gnome ShadowMage
Emma Caen - Retired
Emma Caen - Retired
Re: Shadow dancer shadow mages
You do not loose Shar by going ranger AFAIK. By not having a Nature deity you loose acces to nature based spells, but for a ranger dip that is hardly relevant
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Re: Shadow dancer shadow mages
Ranger is a divine class, Shar's requirements are LE, NE, or CE iirc, thus the Shadowmage into Ranger dip will have to be of the 3 alignment for the PC not to lose Shar upon Ranger selection!KrishnaGirl wrote: ↑Wed Sep 19, 2018 8:26 pmAnd unfortunately ranger is locked out to sm cause you lose shar if you go ranger.Alox wrote: ↑Tue Sep 11, 2018 4:12 amYou give up bigby spells and IGMS for +2 DC on spells everyone can easily buf against. Going shadow mage is not that great a choice already.
And as a wizard the only really mechanical viable choice is taking 3-4 levels of bard or ranger for your discipline dip. Bard for UMD, ranger for extra feat.
I've put my sm on hold until the path is fixed which is a shame cause omg I love playing Olivia.
Re: Shadow dancer shadow mages
Ranger doesn’t have an alignment restriction though, so if your SM can worship Shar, taking a lvl in ranger won’t change it
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Re: Shadow dancer shadow mages
Here's the relevant line from the wiki:
A ranger must select a nature deity (as a druid) or a deity that supports their alignment (as cleric). When selecting a non-nature deity, Rangers lose access to spells that a cleric cannot cast. These include, but are not limited to, camouflage line, polymorph self, blade thirst, one with the land, and the magic fang line.
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Re: Shadow dancer shadow mages
All of my rangers are required to be within the acceptable alignment range as the deities they choose.
At the same time, none of them have picked Nature deity and their "nature" spells still work (For archers anyways).
TBH, this is how it should be as Rangers aren't Druids after all. They are serial killers who focus on studying the anatomy of their chosen enemies rather than serving a deity's interest in regards to nature.
The nature deity requirement for nature spellcasting thing might not be working as of now, but it's a step-up for both RP and mechanical interpretation of the class.
At the same time, none of them have picked Nature deity and their "nature" spells still work (For archers anyways).
TBH, this is how it should be as Rangers aren't Druids after all. They are serial killers who focus on studying the anatomy of their chosen enemies rather than serving a deity's interest in regards to nature.
The nature deity requirement for nature spellcasting thing might not be working as of now, but it's a step-up for both RP and mechanical interpretation of the class.
Re: Shadow dancer shadow mages
Kenji, the lore and restrictions on ranger spellcasting are more concerned with the source and type of their magic, which is, according to a rather simple and very general reading of canon lore, divine magic, which always comes from a deity or a planar power. If rangers could cast spells without the patronage of a nature deity, the lore of how they get their spells in the first place would have to be renegotiated, which I think is not something that Arelith would be keen to do. And nor should we; remaking well-established rules is just messy and unnecessary and takes some time to learn and spread to become the new norm. I think that removing the nature deity restriction would make the ranger class just an outdoorsy hunter class that is granted nature-themed spells for some strange reason by deities who have nothing to do with nature.
Or maybe it would just open the option of rangers being roleplayed as something else as you suggest and the classic understanding of the class would prevail for the most part, not changing the theme significantly. Dunno?
Or maybe it would just open the option of rangers being roleplayed as something else as you suggest and the classic understanding of the class would prevail for the most part, not changing the theme significantly. Dunno?
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Re: Shadow dancer shadow mages
Brought out a few nuances ^^
It is perfectly fine to play vengeful serial killer rangers but there is nothing wrong with playing them ad champions of a certain deity’s tenents in regards to nature or a myriad of other things
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Re: Shadow dancer shadow mages
Regarding that, I'll start a new thread to prevent derailing this particular one.
What's important here is that Rangers have alignment restrictions should folks decide to dip into Ranger class and wish to keep their current deity.
What's important here is that Rangers have alignment restrictions should folks decide to dip into Ranger class and wish to keep their current deity.
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Re: Shadow dancer shadow mages
Is the increased caster level scripted in a way that they still gain new spell slots with enough shadow dancer levels?
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Re: Shadow dancer shadow mages
NoStrykerMontgomery wrote: ↑Fri Sep 21, 2018 4:10 pmIs the increased caster level scripted in a way that they still gain new spell slots with enough shadow dancer levels?
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