White Mage

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Senshi
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White Mage

Post by Senshi » Mon Aug 13, 2018 2:16 pm

Hello,

I have retired Velshar, RIP. Hello Normal Reward. Now im looking to make something lighter.

I would Like to play a Healer cleric with epic focus in enchanting, conjuration and evocation. Healer domain is a must, was thinking sun domain for the extra "light" spells.

Think a mage with long white hair but young, wearing a black and white coat, throwing heals and banishment's across the battlefield.

I was thinking around 24wis, 16int and 16con if its do-able.

Can one of the beasty builders make something up for me to play for the next 3-6 months?

Looking forward to it.
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Wytchee
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Re: White Mage

Post by Wytchee » Mon Aug 13, 2018 2:57 pm

Hi!

Healer builds are pretty straightforward, and by the way, Healing Domain is in no way necessary to be a competent healer.

I would suggest taking Travel Domain. A caster without innate haste is going to feel awkward come later levels. You can rely on wands and pots, but why give yourself the grief? :)

Suggested domains: travel, healing; travel, sun; travel, protection

If you go protection, invest in charisma. You will have a very potent and long lasting (if gimmicky) sanctuary you can use to run about the battlefield and spam heals untouched.

Class spread is going to be 27 cleric / 3 monk or bard or ranger, depending on if you want extra AC and speed (monk) UMD (bard) and a nature-y flavor and access to spot as a class skill (ranger).
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Senshi
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Re: White Mage

Post by Senshi » Mon Aug 13, 2018 3:07 pm

Is respite not worth the pure cleric?

If not, would 3 rogue for the umd and lockpick be worth it?

I want him to be good at solo as much as party.
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Re: White Mage

Post by Wytchee » Mon Aug 13, 2018 3:16 pm

So as a healer cleric you can just slap regen on your summon and solo most content. It's quite potent.

You can dip rogue, sure, but the main thing you want is discipline. If you think you can avoid being knocked down (unlikely) then feel free to forgo discipline and dip rogue for the stats.
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Re: White Mage

Post by Opustus » Mon Aug 13, 2018 5:26 pm

My post is pretty much everything Wytchee said but in a bit more detail.

Here's the build posted by Jennymint on Arelith Discord (username Peppermint on the forum, methinks). It's very good with an explanation of how the build works.
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1mxW ... OqjY4/edit

The level30 Clerk goes full Charisma with Protection domain solely for the survivability of its domain power: http://nwn.wikia.com/wiki/Protection_domain. Apparently this is the only sure way for the build to survive a longer period of time; I think that's mainly for PvP, but it ought to have its uses outside of it, too.

Other considerations are, as previously mentioned, Clerk27/Bard3 or Clerk27/Monk3. Those builds max out WIS, grab all the usual spell feats and focuses, and can go for Auto-Quicken feats in the absence of Travel domain for Haste, though it might be a wee bit tight for that. Evocation spells are the best for offence, although there are several spammable Necromancy spells as well. Here's a full list of the Cleric spells sorted by school: http://nwn.wikia.com/wiki/Spell_school_list_(cleric). Almost all offensive Cleric spells are Fort save vs. Death or Reflex/will save vs. Disable effect. Word of Faith is really good on any Cleric, because it has no saving throw, being effectively an insta-blind.

As for PvM, WIS clerics can be useful combatants without any combat feats thanks to the burly Cleric buffs. A Cleric with zero investment into melee can buff itself from: three attacks per round 20 AB INTO four attacks per round 41 AB with two of the attacks at full AB. Divine power is super strong. The math is pretty easy: Divine favour +5, GMW +5, Aid and Bless +2, Divine power +5, Divine power STR buff up to 18 (+4), base AB 20 = 41. You could push it a bit higher with some round-based spells, but those take up Regeneration slots.

The most common domains are Trickery and Travel, because they give Improved invis and Haste, respectively. Other considerations could be Heal domain for auto-empowered heal spells, Magic domain for Neg energy burst (especially if going Mummy dust) + Magic armour + Ice storm, Fire domain for Wall of fire, or Animal domain for better summons. Forgoing Travel domain for Haste means that Auto-quicken becomes a must-have and that buffing up will be an utter arse without Haste wands or potions.

About the White Mage thing: since Necromancy is a school concerned with Positive and Negative energy, I think Necromancy with the death spells could fit the theme RPwise. Taking advantage of the Necromancy summons would make people hate you outside of Andunor.
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Re: White Mage

Post by StrykerMontgomery » Mon Aug 13, 2018 8:53 pm

Bard dip if toi want discipline, tumble and umd.

Other wise you might as well do monk dip for tumble, disc, move speed and wisdon ac
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Re: White Mage

Post by Alox » Mon Aug 13, 2018 9:33 pm

Death domain is really really good for those harm spells.... death domain is not evil domain nor necromancy... but not really "white" either...

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Re: White Mage

Post by Peppermint » Tue Aug 14, 2018 6:15 am

Opustus wrote:The level30 Clerk goes full Charisma with Protection domain solely for the survivability of its domain power: http://nwn.wikia.com/wiki/Protection_domain. Apparently this is the only sure way for the build to survive a longer period of time; I think that's mainly for PvP, but it ought to have its uses outside of it, too.
A bit of both, really.

As you mentioned, Protection Domain is useful in PvE too. There are a lot of times when mobs will hone in on you, and without any meaningful AC or discipline, you will need a means to escape. Spells like Darkness, Word of Faith, and Greater Sanctuary are the standard tools in your arsenal, though the Protection Domain healer adds -ward and Protection Domain to that list.

I know a lot of people don't build for, and don't care about PvP in the slightest. That's fine. I personally strive to ensure that all of my builds can do something in PvP, though, even if they're not necessarily optimal for it, because I consider conflict central to any interesting plot.

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Re: White Mage

Post by Senshi » Tue Aug 14, 2018 6:38 am

I'm starting to think protection domain would fit with my idea of a mage who can buff and be a powerful force to any side.

I think I may be wanting to much then what is capable. I was originally planning on going Evo and conj with Sun and healing to be a powerful foe for any Necro and undead (hence mage). But it seems that I would miss out on haste. The protection idea didn't even factor in with my original idea.

Is haste that important? Sound very noob I'm sure. Hmm much to think about.

I don't mind using haste wands to buff but I think it will be very hard to be epic focus in Evo, conj and enchanting with quickening spells.

Hmm my head hurts.

I want to be able to hold my own in PvP and be a light in the darkness or the battlefield so to speak. Need to sacrifice something..

Uugh.
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Re: White Mage

Post by Peppermint » Tue Aug 14, 2018 7:38 am

For the pure protection domain healer, travel domain is redundant. You've enough feats to pick up autoquicken without great sacrifice.

Sun domain is cool if you want to do it for flavor, but not really necessary. If you're grabbing heal domain, your heal spells will murder undead (i.e. your mass heals will do 450 damage to all undead in a large AoE).

You'll still function fine with protection/sun if you'd rather go that route, though. Sun domain is pretty weak, but having a weak domain as a secondary won't cripple you too much.

Alternatively, you can run healer 27/monk 3 or healer 27/bard 3 with healing/sun. No -respite that way, but you'll be more functional as an offensive caster since 1) you won't have to worry about KDs, 2) you'll have decent DCs to speak of. Pure cha healer really does not synergize well with evocation, spells like Hellball aside.
Last edited by Peppermint on Tue Aug 14, 2018 8:21 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: White Mage

Post by Senshi » Tue Aug 14, 2018 7:56 am

Is evocation worth the investment to do the most damage with spells to support my summon and/or damage emanys in PvP?

Can enchanting be fit in somewhere? Having the ability to make my own gear is tempting.
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Re: White Mage

Post by Peppermint » Tue Aug 14, 2018 8:15 am

If you're playing a multiclassed WIS-based healer, evocation is a very solid choice. For a pure CHA-based healer, it's a viable option, but decidedly more niche. Your DCs will be terrible, so the only spells you can really cast are Greater Ruin/Hellball. Moreover, any time you cast offensively, you render yourself vulnerable to attack (and you're very squishy with that build). You'll only really want to cast evocation spells when there are no melees on the field, or alternatively, as a finisher.

I don't really recommend enchantment for a healer. For one, you don't really need much in the way of gear. You can get the basics on your own. For two, if enchantment is a weak school on a mage, it's worthless on a healer. Your only offensive enchantment spells are Bane, Doom, Hold Person, and Blindness/Deafness--not exactly a compelling list. Can you fit it in? Sure, absolutely. But there's no real reason to.

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Re: White Mage

Post by Senshi » Tue Aug 14, 2018 9:21 am

Peppermint wrote:
Tue Aug 14, 2018 8:15 am
If you're playing a multiclassed WIS-based healer, evocation is a very solid choice. For a pure CHA-based healer, it's a viable option, but decidedly more niche. Your DCs will be terrible, so the only spells you can really cast are Greater Ruin/Hellball. Moreover, any time you cast offensively, you render yourself vulnerable to attack (and you're very squishy with that build). You'll only really want to cast evocation spells when there are no melees on the field, or alternatively, as a finisher.

I don't really recommend enchantment for a healer. For one, you don't really need much in the way of gear. You can get the basics on your own. For two, if enchantment is a weak school on a mage, it's worthless on a healer. Your only offensive enchantment spells are Bane, Doom, Hold Person, and Blindness/Deafness--not exactly a compelling list. Can you fit it in? Sure, absolutely. But there's no real reason to.
Thanks peppermint.

Im going to go the pure cleric route as per your guide. I wouldn't go Mummy dust as it would be against my idea.

How would you recommend i make the build have epic transmutation with the epic conj and abj, without gimping it to much?
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Re: White Mage

Post by Peppermint » Tue Aug 14, 2018 10:46 am

Transmutation is far less appealing when you're not summoning undead.

That said, I'd probably drop toughness, epic spell: mummy dust, and epic spell focus: conjuration.

If you're dead set on esf: conjuration's -yoink, then you could drop silent spell or arcane defense instead. Both represent a large sacrifice, though. Without the former, your spellbook becomes far less flexible. Without the latter, you become vulnerable to abjurer dispels.

I'd probably drop arcane defense if esf: conjuration is absolutely not something you are willing to drop. While it will absolutely destroy you when your sanctuary is dispelled, skilled abjurers are pretty rare.

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Re: White Mage

Post by Senshi » Tue Aug 14, 2018 11:00 am

Peppermint wrote:
Tue Aug 14, 2018 10:46 am
Transmutation is far less appealing when you're not summoning undead.

That said, I'd probably drop toughness, epic spell: mummy dust, and epic spell focus: conjuration.

If you're dead set on esf: conjuration's -yoink, then you could drop silent spell or arcane defense instead. Both represent a large sacrifice, though. Without the former, your spellbook becomes far less flexible. Without the latter, you become vulnerable to abjurer dispels.

I'd probably drop arcane defense if esf: conjuration is absolutely not something you are willing to drop. While it will absolutely destroy you when your sanctuary is dispelled, skilled abjurers are pretty rare.
Thank you for all your help. I think i may just live with portal lens's.

Being a epic transmutation necromancer has spoiled me.

I will follow your suggestion and replace mummy dust with fort saves.

Thank you so much for all your help.

Your guide is quite helpful and its good to know where ill end up from the get go.

You rock!
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