Weapon Builds

[One Two Three Five]

So, we've got a lot of cool 'special' weapons. What build setups utilize them specifically? Bonus points for things like Cyclone, the drow crossbows, elder dream, etc.

Off the top of my head: Horc shadowdancer with the orc double weapons, and moonblade fighter, as examples.

[Hunter548]

Cyclone is good pretty much anywhere you'd use a two-handed weapon. Barbs, weaponmasters, etc.

Drow crossbow is good for zen archery clerics and archery rangers, mostly, though I bet drow rogues get mileage out of it too.

Elder Dream Spear actually kind of sucks, unfortunately. Rangers almost always want to be dual weilding, and have blade thirst anyways. Maybe some sort of strange ranger dip build? Still seems kind of niche.

[WanderingPoet]

Elder Dream is great since it is one handed, excellent with a board on a druid. It does high damage so it's a good way for a druid out of form to stab something and make it hurt while saving slots on barkskin.

Also useful on strength based small creatures as one of the more powerful two handed weapons for a druid/ranger.

[Peppermint]

I've occasionally tried to plot out rather feat-starved two-hander builds, only to discover that there are no two-handed simple weapons. Back to the drawing board. C'est la vie. (Can we have some kind of simple 2h weapon again? Please? Why did we remove the only one, given that the spear serves no unique niche now?)

But anyway, just looking through the wiki at stuff not mentioned:

- Orog Bastard Sword is super legit on an orog melee. Weapon Master, Blackguard, or whatever.
- Orcish Blood Mace is garbage because it's a Dire Mace. It super needs something to make up for it. A bonus feat, an on hit effect, even more AB? I don't know. It sucks.
- Dwarven Rune Axe is super good. Same as Orog Bastard Sword, really.
- Orog Heavy Sword is good on paper, but suffers from being a two-handed weapon on an Orog. Not useless, but probably not ever included in an optimal build.
- Goblin Scourge Flail is garbage, do not use. 20/x2 crit range is still bad even when keen.
- Svirfneblin Rune Hammer has one niche use: it's best in slot for a warlock. +5 AB and runic is nice.
- Dale Sword is actually very good. Best in slot for virtually any halfling. Super good on a halfling rogue.
- Keen, +4 Enhancement, 2d6 Divine, and Runic all make Elder Dream an ideal weapon for Shifters. Not so good otherwise.
- Orcish Blood Sword is good. Same as the axe, really.
- All the drow crossbows are good. Wardbreaker is +1 AB over the alternatives, eats right through premonition, and the stat penalties don't often matter on a ranged character. The Hand Spinneret grants Point Blank Shot (great on a feat-starved build) and offers some great Sneak Attack for PvE.

[afreshstart]

I don't think elder dream isn't ideal for shifters sadly. A lot of forms have enchantment bonus on their own and you can't add an essence to 2d6 divine. I think a keened giant femur(or even double 5%ed one it only costs 50 crafting points to make) with an +4 essence would perform better.

[Peppermint]

Please stop. I had a dream of a world where spears were useful. You're ruining it.

[Opustus]

My INT- and spell-heavy Spellsword25/Ranger5 would be using the dreamy spear. It's probably not good, though.

[Frankly]

Dwarven Runic Axe is actually a really solid competitor for masterly damask since it comes keen and does 1d10 base. The base stats are as follows

+4
+2 Cold vs Half-Orc
+4 Cold vs Goblinoid
+4 Cold vs Orc
Keen
Runic

This means that you get a gaurenteed enchantment and then after that you get to try and 5% something else onto that. I try for elemental damage which leads to the following.

+4
+2 Cold vs Half-Orc
+4 Cold vs Goblinoid
+4 Cold vs Orc
Keen
4 Elemental [Permenant Essence]
1d4 Elemental [Runic Enchantment after the essence]
1d4 Elemental [A very expensive 5% roll]
4 Elemental [Temporary Essence]

This leaves it at the same base damage as its Mastsrly Damask counterpart that had to spend its 5% roll on keening and gives it higher base damage, higher to-hit modofier, and some great rainbow axe memes.

It may not outdo a keen scimitar or a scythe but its got excellent uses as a cool dwarf racial.

The highest damage is still probably an orog heavy sword of it can be runed after you add 4 from an essence and 1d4 elemental. Depends on how runes work which I have yet to experiment with.

The nice thing is you can get most of the rune axe materials super easily, you might just spend like 20k buying the dwarven incantation from someone if you don't know where to get then easily but then at 21 you have a super solid axe.

[msterswrdsmn]

. (Can we have some kind of simple 2h weapon again? Please? Why did we remove the only one, given that the spear serves no unique niche now?)

I put in a suggestion a while back asking to allow the -twohand feature to be applicable to spears, as, yes, spears are used with 2 hands as well as 1 depending on the spear/culture. The reaction was "thats too overpowered for a simple weapon". Even if it was a twohanded weapon with a higher base damage to begin with. Somehow.

[Frankly]

Can't you twohand a scimitar?

[One Two Three Five]

. (Can we have some kind of simple 2h weapon again? Please? Why did we remove the only one, given that the spear serves no unique niche now?)

I put in a suggestion a while back asking to allow the -twohand feature to be applicable to spears, as, yes, spears are used with 2 hands as well as 1 depending on the spear/culture. The reaction was "thats too overpowered for a simple weapon". Even if it was a twohanded weapon with a higher base damage to begin with. Somehow.

This is actually something that annoys the hell out of me. Quarterstaff got turned into a dual wielder weapon, spear got turned into whatever it's supposed to be, and there's no twohander simple option anymore. I know it's probably a dumb thing to fixate on, but it does bug me.

[Frankly]

No its a real issue tbh. Having a simple two hander allows bards to have the option of increasing their damage output as well as other builds, though those are more niche

[msterswrdsmn]

I'd like to point out we never saw bards seriously using the default two-handed spears for any reason, much less for increased melee damage. Multiclassing as 95% of bards do gave them far better options. Anything that didn't multiclass or somehow end up with another weapons feat was probably not going to be doing a good job in melee, regardless, simply because of the class choices involved.
....
Actually, I don't think I ever saw anyone using spears period. Maybe, 2 or 3 people for RP purposes?

[TimeAdept]

Spear/Shield and Staff/Shield is like the biggest "I am a warlock" in the entire world.

I'm convinced the Goblin Flail is a sleeper hit. Shit's got the same damage boosts as the Orog Greatsword, comes keen, but is runic for another 1d4 damage before your essences on top. I would in all seriousness play a Brycer or a WM with it.

I'm weird.

[Peppermint]

Right, but flails are 20/x2. Not so good. Solid against crit immune targets, perhaps, but garbage against anything else.

I've actually toyed with a 2h healer build and a 2h shadowdancer build recently, though both were so feat-starved I couldn't afford to take an actual weapon feat. And since there are no 2h simple weapons anymore, well...

From a design standpoint, it's super weird not even to have the option. It just bugs me.

[Frankly]

That flail is only good for crit immune stuff and that's only if you don't have weapon specializationin a less terrible meme because any extra damage it dkes is offset.