Viability of Epic Skill Focus (Listen/Spot)

Discussions related to character builds and mechanics may occur here.

Moderators: Forum Moderators, Active DMs

Post Reply
Laggy
Posts: 23
Joined: Wed Jul 25, 2018 12:34 am

Viability of Epic Skill Focus (Listen/Spot)

Post by Laggy » Sat Jul 28, 2018 11:30 pm

Is this ever a good idea if you have the respective skill maxed out and you don't want to get caught off-guard by stealth?

(Assuming True Seeing is not an option.)

PinataPlethora
Posts: 729
Joined: Tue Apr 21, 2015 2:41 am

Re: Viability of Epic Skill Focus (Listen/Spot)

Post by PinataPlethora » Sat Jul 28, 2018 11:36 pm

If spotting is your thing, definitely. Hide scores can go over 100, so you need a lot to be reliable. If it's just one in an array, though, there are more useful feats to take.

Shadowy Reality
Arelith Gold Supporter
Arelith Gold Supporter
Posts: 1237
Joined: Mon Sep 08, 2014 9:56 am

Re: Viability of Epic Skill Focus (Listen/Spot)

Post by Shadowy Reality » Sat Jul 28, 2018 11:38 pm

True seeing is less an option now, given it really is only reliable during the first 6 seconds and even then, only if the stealthed one is in line of sight.

I think now, more than ever, ESF in either Listen or Spot are viable. I will argue that Listen should be superior, given that Amplify lasts turns per level and offers a +20 bonus. Hide is also much easier to boost than Move Silently, but someone will correct me if I am wrong.

User avatar
ReverentBlade
Posts: 577
Joined: Mon Feb 19, 2018 2:45 am

Re: Viability of Epic Skill Focus (Listen/Spot)

Post by ReverentBlade » Sat Jul 28, 2018 11:53 pm

Listen has so many semi-hidden variables based on distance, amount of tileset between you and the target, and other factors, that I would almost always recommend spot.

User avatar
Baron Saturday
Posts: 2364
Joined: Mon Sep 08, 2014 4:34 am

Re: Viability of Epic Skill Focus (Listen/Spot)

Post by Baron Saturday » Sun Jul 29, 2018 1:10 am

Spot has hidden variables as well, though, based on light, distance, if they're behind you, etc.
Rolled: Helene d'Arque, Sara Lyonall
Shelved: Kels Vetian, Cin ys'Andalis, Saul Haidt
Playing: Oshe Jordain

Laggy
Posts: 23
Joined: Wed Jul 25, 2018 12:34 am

Re: Viability of Epic Skill Focus (Listen/Spot)

Post by Laggy » Sun Jul 29, 2018 8:10 am

Fortunately in my particular case only Listen is a class skill so I don't have to think about the decision.

Thanks for the input, everyone. In this particular case there aren't actually much better feats for me to take (trueflame sorc) ; the competition's, like, Greater Spell Penetration, so I wanted to make sure I wasn't crazy going in on Listen checks.

Alox
Posts: 116
Joined: Tue Apr 17, 2018 6:23 pm

Re: Viability of Epic Skill Focus (Listen/Spot)

Post by Alox » Sun Jul 29, 2018 10:15 pm

Spot is great in that they have to break line of sight again before they disappear. With listen they can disappear again 6 seconds later. And I also think that targeting something with spot is easier.

Listen is great because it is harder to boost move silently, so unless you are able to get crazy spot values near 80-100 you should probably go listen.

TimeAdept
Posts: 1336
Joined: Sun Aug 06, 2017 7:02 am

Re: Viability of Epic Skill Focus (Listen/Spot)

Post by TimeAdept » Mon Jul 30, 2018 5:18 am

With listen they can disappear again 6 seconds later.
Wrong. Stop spreading this.
, so unless you are able to get crazy spot values near 80-100 you should probably go listen.
Wrong. Don't spread this. You will function fine at 55+, and noly get more effective the higher you go.

User avatar
Jack Oat
Posts: 734
Joined: Mon Sep 08, 2014 3:46 am
Location: The Slanty Shanty

Re: Viability of Epic Skill Focus (Listen/Spot)

Post by Jack Oat » Mon Jul 30, 2018 5:56 am

TimeAdept wrote:
Mon Jul 30, 2018 5:18 am
With listen they can disappear again 6 seconds later.
Wrong. Stop spreading this.
This is actually true. You have to continuously make a listen check vs. a listen target to continue hearing them, and if you fail it they disappear again. This usually happens, iirc, with hearing around corners.
TimeAdept wrote:
Mon Jul 30, 2018 5:18 am
, so unless you are able to get crazy spot values near 80-100 you should probably go listen.
Wrong. Don't spread this. You will function fine at 55+, and noly get more effective the higher you go.
Agreed.

"You shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free."

Garrbear wrote:

quite bluntly we can't balance the server around people who don't play well

Irongron wrote:

My main takeaway from this is that Jack is apparently personable


TimeAdept
Posts: 1336
Joined: Sun Aug 06, 2017 7:02 am

Re: Viability of Epic Skill Focus (Listen/Spot)

Post by TimeAdept » Mon Jul 30, 2018 6:28 am

I played a Listen character for 8 RL years and never once had that 'functionality' occur.

Corners are a LoS deal and often have people disappear in different ways due to tilesets, but in open ground, they won't fade out.

User avatar
Cortex
Posts: 3553
Joined: Tue Mar 24, 2015 10:12 pm

Re: Viability of Epic Skill Focus (Listen/Spot)

Post by Cortex » Mon Jul 30, 2018 6:30 am

You can get great Listen scores thanks to Amplify(which lasts 5 MINUTES now), which lasts turns/level, and 5 minutes from a scroll or misc item.

33 ranks
12 gear (if you can afford it)
5 from Boots of Listening/Elven Boots
20 Amplify

That's 70 listen with a hefty focus on Listen, but no ESF, racials, etc.

With Spot...

33 ranks
12 gear
5 from cloak(I think it was cloak?)
15 True Seeing

For 65, 15 of which will last rounds unlike Amplify.

Noteworthy, if you detect people via Listen, you're still flat footed to them if they sneak attack you. If you detect them with Spot, this is not the case. You can also cast Clairaudience/clairvoyance for a bonus +10 to both spot/listen but again that's rounds only.

Lastly but not least, there's two loot items about that give +5/+5 spot listen which can boost your skills even higher when not in active combat.

tldr ESF spot/listen is worth if you have a feat to spare, or allows you to get enough detection to spot stealthers in combat (usually their hide/MS isn't astronomic unless they're using exclusively stealth gear which makes them weaker in combat).

Edit: Fixed something about Amplify
:)

Frankly
Posts: 25
Joined: Sat Feb 20, 2016 8:12 am

Re: Viability of Epic Skill Focus (Listen/Spot)

Post by Frankly » Wed Aug 01, 2018 11:53 pm

Gear listen
Take 10 wisdom
Take ESF listen
Drink amplify (turns per level here)
And drink claircouyance (10 rounds)
You now have 91 listen. Enjoy radar detection that you can use to meme on shadowdancers trying to spam you. You _can_ get bigger numbers but anyone higher Tran this is not a threat to you as they literally only gear stealth.

Post Reply