Dex blackgaurd/rogue

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StrykerMontgomery
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Dex blackgaurd/rogue

Post by StrykerMontgomery » Mon Jul 16, 2018 5:09 pm

Im thinking 17 blackgaurd, 13 rogue (or 16/14)

High ac and respectablish ab
Good umd
Good sneak damage
Epic dodge
Parry buckler with high parry for defensive options (i may not have the int required for Expertise)

Full tier summons

Can use poison

Good skill points
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Baron Saturday
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Re: Dex blackgaurd/rogue

Post by Baron Saturday » Sat Jul 28, 2018 12:48 am

Figured I'd take a look back at this. Stat spread is tricky, since you want 13 str and int for the relevant feats, as well as high Dex and Cha without sacrificing Con. Below is... not ideal, but it's the best I could come up with. You are pretty feat-starved, as evidenced by IE in epic levels.

STR 13
DEX 16 + gift
CON 12
INT 13
WIS 8
CHA 14 + gift

ROG 1: Expertise, Knockdown
ROG 2
ROG 3: Power Attack
ROG 4
ROG 5
ROG 6: Cleave
ROG 7
ROG 8
BG 1: Blind Fight
BG 2
BG 3
BG 4: Divine Shield
BG 5
BG 6
BG 7: Divine Might
BG 8
BG 9
BG 10: Weapon Focus
ROG 9
ROG 10
BG 11: Great Dexterity
BG 12
BG 13: Epic Weapon Focus
BG 14: Improved Expertise
ROG 11
ROG 12
ROG 13: Epic Dodge
BG 15
BG 16: Epic Fiendish Servant
BG 17: ESF Discipline

Gearing this will be a pain. You BADLY need Con, and you also need Cha to make Div. Might/Shield worthwhile. Aim for Armor of Immolation. +2 Cha and +5 discipline will help immensely, and with 13 rogue levels, you're only losing 2 points of Dex AC.

Base HP is 304, can theoretically buff that up to 484. Not great, but could be worse.
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StrykerMontgomery
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Re: Dex blackgaurd/rogue

Post by StrykerMontgomery » Sat Jul 28, 2018 5:41 pm

I guess you builder never consider not taking IE, eh? If I am investing in parry (although I will want intelligent if I do this) I cant exactly turn that and EI on at the same time. I probably won't bother with divine might (quick question.. does arelith have a thing where divine shield and might merely have a cooldown rather than times per day?) as I am not interested in doing damage physically wise. You are right that I probably need 13 str though because divine shield is probably a must if I am not going to take IE.

The main idea for this build is to allow summons to do damage while I turtle with both epic dodge and parry or to do lots of sneak damage while they focus on my summon. Probably going elf (plan on cranking that dex as high as elfly possible) against your advice of needing con.

Not sure I will need cleave or knockdown (knockdown is not worth it unless you get improved since everyone knows how to get disicipline).

What is armor of immolation? (sounds really usefuly and cool thematic considering it would be heavy in blackgaurd levels)
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Jagel
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Re: Dex blackgaurd/rogue

Post by Jagel » Sat Jul 28, 2018 5:43 pm

You need 13 str to get power attack which is nerfed for BG (cleave prereq)

StrykerMontgomery
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Re: Dex blackgaurd/rogue

Post by StrykerMontgomery » Sat Jul 28, 2018 6:13 pm

Jagel wrote:
Sat Jul 28, 2018 5:43 pm
You need 13 str to get power attack which is nerfed for BG (cleave prereq)
what do you mean by nerfed and why do I need cleave?
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Jagel
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Re: Dex blackgaurd/rogue

Post by Jagel » Sat Jul 28, 2018 7:37 pm

Nerfed = needed. Autocorrect got me.

You need cleave for BG.

StrykerMontgomery
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Re: Dex blackgaurd/rogue

Post by StrykerMontgomery » Sat Jul 28, 2018 8:57 pm

Prereqs, duh, sorry lol
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Baron Saturday
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Re: Dex blackgaurd/rogue

Post by Baron Saturday » Sat Jul 28, 2018 9:47 pm

KD will still be really useful for you in PvE, since you've got 12d6 sneak attack.

Divine Might/Shield are not on cooldown.

Armor of Immolation is on the Arelith wiki, I'd link it but I'm on my phone and linking is a pain.

IE is chosen because it is perhaps the most reliable way of staying alive in a bad situation. It requires no skill investment, its usefulness doesn't diminish when attacked by multiple enemies or enemies with high APR, and it doesn't turn off when you move. Party is still useful, don't get me wrong, but it isn't a substitute for IE.
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Alox
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Re: Dex blackgaurd/rogue

Post by Alox » Sun Jul 29, 2018 10:23 pm

IE is one of the best feats out there.

It is quite easy to get enough AB for pve content, but can be hard to get enough AC. IE fixes that.

In pvp content you probably want as much AC as possible, until you know you have the fight where you want it.

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Dalenger
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Re: Dex blackgaurd/rogue

Post by Dalenger » Mon Jul 30, 2018 9:57 am

+5/10 AC is huge, and way bigger than the cost in AB. Parry doesn't work like it should, and in PvP makes you insanely reactionary, which is suicide when you're playing against humans. Like, parry is annoying but really easy to beat and impossible to lose to. Not taking IE is like not taking discipline.
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StrykerMontgomery
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Re: Dex blackgaurd/rogue

Post by StrykerMontgomery » Mon Jul 30, 2018 8:35 pm

Im aware of the challenges of trying to use parry snd why EI is better. I am trying to work around it.

Sacrificing ab for ac just feels so counterproductive at times though. Especially if my opponent is using IE. Also again parry, much like IE, can be turned off and on depending on situation of course tbe queztion remains if my ac will be respectable for when they catch me off gaurd switching between the two. Switching between IE and parry might be wiser if im trying to swap places with my summon for who is being on the defensive. But if they are focusing on my summon then my flank sneak will be kind of void if i cant hit them! Also im kind of feat starved.


What I need is a stradegy when their ac and saves is high enough to effectively ignore my summon allowing them to find easy work arounds to my turtling. Which is probably why IE is being mentioned. But if that's what I wanted to do then, i might as well just made a weaponmaster.
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Tourmaline
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Re: Dex blackgaurd/rogue

Post by Tourmaline » Mon Jul 30, 2018 9:21 pm

Parry is just really situational. If a certain (low) amount of enemies are attacking you in melee it can be a good strategy. IE stands up to every enemy no matter if it's 1 or 20. IE also stands up to missile attacks.

If you're a BG using summons you can still attack with IE if the summon has the aggro, with parry you'll just be standing there. Parry is also janky and can take a round to go into effect, IE is usually immediate. So it's not really doable to drop in and out of parry to attack/defend/attack/defend, you're guaranteed to get hit.

Also, and this is extremely important.. You can use heal kits in IE. Using a kit breaks parry. That's win-or-lose right there.

FInally IE also has just plain "E". You have on, off or halfway as your choices, and halfway usually hits the sweet spot for most PVE.

Parry is a decent skill investment and I'd take it if it's doable.. I usually take it on druids for example since it's tough to squeeze a lot of combat feats in and it's better than nothing. But ya need IE on a melee.

StrykerMontgomery
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Re: Dex blackgaurd/rogue

Post by StrykerMontgomery » Tue Jul 31, 2018 8:27 pm

We should not be able to do things like heal wirh combat expertise on lol

I thought parry also has toggled mode too now much like expertise? But yes it would be a little unreliable to work with.
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Tourmaline
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Re: Dex blackgaurd/rogue

Post by Tourmaline » Tue Jul 31, 2018 10:06 pm

Now I worry everyone is going to come beat me up with sacks of doorknobs after it's changed in the next update.

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Baron Saturday
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Re: Dex blackgaurd/rogue

Post by Baron Saturday » Wed Aug 01, 2018 12:07 am

StrykerMontgomery wrote:
Tue Jul 31, 2018 8:27 pm
We should not be able to do things like heal wirh combat expertise on lol

I thought parry also has toggled mode too now much like expertise? But yes it would be a little unreliable to work with.
Parry, so far as I know, is the only combat mode that retains the old cancel-on-move behavior, as the devs felt that being able to parry while moving might just straight up break things.
Rolled: Helene d'Arque, Sara Lyonall
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