The Ultimate Bad Guy Build - Viable?

[Lurch]

So as I understand it, spells cast from items use charisma to determine save DC:s by default and spell foci work with them as one would expect. With these premises, here's a thought:

Orog - Warlock (of Orcus) 4 / Pale Master 16 / Blackguard (of Ilneval) 10

Stats: 14 / 6 / 14 / 14 / 6 / 20 -> 28

Level progression:
WL 1-3 -> PM 1-8 -> BG 1-9 -> Epic -> PM 9-15 -> BG 10 -> WL 4 -> PM 16

Skills:
Discipline, Spellcraft, Taunt (spare points), Tumble, UMD (5 Hide for BG)

Feats:
Power Attack (Free), Cleave (for BG)
SF: & GSF: Necromancy (for PM summons and items)
SF: & GSF: Abjuration (for dispels & IGMS immunity)

last 2 pre-epic feats are unclear, there are several choices:
Divine Might, Divine Shield - or - Expertise & Improved Expertise - or - SF: & GSF: Evocation - or - SF: & GSF: Transmutation - or - Spell Penetration & Greater Spell Penetration

Epic Feats:
Armor Skin
Great Charisma I
Epic Energy Resistance: Fire I (or Epic Spell Penetration, not much else we can take with lvl 13 PM bonus feat)
Epic Spell: Epic Mage Armor, Dragon Knight, Mummy Dust

Essentially this is a summoner build with high defenses that offers support with stronger than normal buffs/debuffs from items. Thoughts on viability?



EDIT:
Probably should do WL 3 / PM 16 / BG 11 instead to reach tier 3 blackguard undead summon, even if it costs 10 tumble? Or is the blackguard summon irrelevant compared to pale master's, especially when (or if) both can't be active simultaneously?

Maybe instead just sacrifice 1 BAB (14 pre-epic) by going WL 4 / PM 19 / BG 7 for bigger epic caster bonus to pale master summons and 1 extra epic feat, dropping armor skin to get great cha III, ending with 30 base charisma. Or keep charisma at 28 by shifting starting points to get 18 strength and 8 dexterity.

EDIT x2:
Whoops, forgot Epic Skill Focus: discipline, that's probably something worth taking. Maybe along with Armor Skin, so 26 / 28 charisma instead.

[TimeAdept]

So as I understand it, spells cast from items use charisma to determine save DC:s by default and spell foci work with them as one would expect

99% sure this isn't true, and the DC is 13+innate level of the spell.

If you do want to do this build,. PDK works better than BG because you can use the PDK abilities on your EDK or the highest tier Mummy Dust.

[Aelryn Bloodmoon]

So as I understand it, spells cast from items use charisma to determine save DC:s by default and spell foci work with them as one would expect

99% sure this isn't true, and the DC is 13+innate level of the spell.

TimeAdept is correct.

Ctrl+f for item, the second result.

[Baron Saturday]

I agree with TA's suggestion of PDK instead of BG. Valiant or Protector are my personal picks - TA, as I recall, favors Protector... And possibly Vanguard? I know we've talked about this before, I'm just not remembering your preference off the top of my head.

One thing to keep in mind is that PM requires DM permission, which would likely be difficult to get at level 3, so you would probably end up either having to delevel back to 3 to take PM, or sitting at level 3 until you get the token.

If you did want to keep Blackguard, Divine Might is a fairly useless pick. You're not gonna hit diddly. Divine Shield is probably overkill in the AC department, but I haven't checked to see exactly what AC you'd be getting.

[TimeAdept]

Might's a waste on the PM IMHO, Shield you may as well, I mean, just to laugh at people who think True Strike will hit you.

I prefer Protector for a support/buddy oriented PDK and Vanguard for a PDK that's trying to be a solo slayer. People keep trying to sell me on Valiant, it requires 16 BASE charisma (20 if the Ward bonuses require charisma), but, I mean, hard to argue with instant speed AB and damage. I don't like Valiant's Oath of Wrath ability like I do Vanguard's and Protector's, but it is also the only one that works on things beyond the target you click. For a Mummy Dust user, Valiant's actually got some power because you have a built in army to take advantage of Rally + Oath, but again, requires you to have 16 CHA on a build that now no longer has BG. That's a real hard sell.

For me it comes down to this: I like spamming full group restos, I like making all my allies tanky, and Protector is the only PDK Order without any outside requirements (Valiant requires 16 base CHA to make full use of it's bonus Rally, and Vanguard needs 33 intimidate becasue it's the basis for the DC off your bonus Fear.), and whatever you click on with Oath is going to get mobbed by everyone and be politely erased.

Your mileage may vary.

[Baron Saturday]

Protector is really nice in concert with EDK or Blackguard summons where you've got one summon you wanna make really beefy. For Mummy Dust I definitely like Valiant better (the 2 extra damage doesn't require 20 Cha, btw), not only for Oath and Rallying Cry, but for the 10 regen on Final Stand.... which I'm assuming stacks with the base regen on the vamps.

I think the 16 base Cha is a small price to pay for the ability to give all your summons a total +3 AB/+6 damage, when you consider that most melee PCs take 4 feats to get the same bonus. I think it's an especially small price to pay on this build, which really only needs Con and has 10 base Cha from Orog.

[Shadowy Reality]

Isn't this build going to be miserable leveling up though? Summons are going to be some levels below content level, AB won't be anything spectacular either.

[Lurch]

Well, bummer. I got pretty excited by the prospect of an "artificer" character. I stand corrected on the item DC issue, and I would concur with taking out the charisma focus and blackguard levels. Seems like warlock 4 / PM 19 / Valiant Knight 7 would get the most out of undead summons with 14 charisma. Warlock requires 11+ starting cha regardless.

Picking gold dwarf might actually make sense if one were to take epic damage reduction feats along with uber AC and pale master immunities. Something like this:

17 -> 22 Str (Gift)
6 Dex
20 -> 22 Con (Gift)
14 Int
8 Wis
14 Cha

( by comparison, Orog would have: 20->22 / 6 / 16->21 / 14 / 6 / 14 )

WL 3 -> PM 10 -> PDK 7 -> PM 19 -> WL 4

Skill Focus: Discipline
Expertise, Improved Expertise
Spell focus: Necromancy, Greater Spell Focus: Necromancy
Spell focus: Abjuration, Greater Spell Focus: Abjuration

Epic Damage Reduction I, II, III
Epic Energy Resistance: Fire I
Epic Spell: Mage Armor, Mummy Dust
Epic Skill Focus: Discipline OR Epic Spell: Dragon Knight

Overkill on the defenses maybe?

[TimeAdept]

If you do want an "artificer" style character, you could consider a high level rogue with 5 Harper Scout or Harper Paragon. You'll get all the special rogue bombs and toys, the throwable weapons scale, and Harper Scout and Harper Paragon both give Caster Level in such a manner that it increases the CL of wands, potions, and scrolls you use, making you decidedly better at anone else using them. Your barkskin wands become +5, for example, among other things. Higher CL word of faiths, longer lasting stat potions and wands, all that good stuff.

Something like 20 rogue 5 fighter 5 harper.

This unfortunately shoots your bad guy shtick right in the foot, but it accomplishes what you want mechanically.

[MoreThanThree]

First of all, why does the build necessarily have to determine the character? Do you really need eleven levels of palemaster to be a feared and respected spreader of Orcus's Will? Furthermore, do you believe that your character really needs to have the base class so stripped-down? This character wants to be a leader, but they will be too weak in the early days to gather enough support behind their cause. I believe, first and foremost, that convincing roleplay can make people believe your monster is whatever you want it to be: case and point, the most famous villain of the past few years was a Drow Ranger named "The Wizard".

Anyway, do a half-elf 20 fighter/7 weapon master/3 rogue and focus on Longsword with the goal of gaining a moonblade.