Just an Inquiry into Druids

[Laffymontaff]

Heya all!

I am Laffymontaff and I am the player of the character Perri Bar'Tellsti. Some of you may have met my character, others may have not. It's all groovy either way - I'm sure as I stick around longer I will get a chance to meet as many of you as possible.

Anyway, I am making this post today because I am intrigued about the current state of Druids. Now I will be upfront and transparent as much as possible in this post, as I don't want anyone misinterpreting my words or thinking I am omitting anything from my commentary. Also, as a further disclaimer to this post, I am saying all of this as lightly, amicably, and trippingly off the tongue as one could imagine. Nothing that I am saying in this post is said with any volition, maliciousness, or nutritious...ness.

Basically, I got my Snuggybear handed to me by a Druid. Not just that, but myself and three others got our asses handed to us by a Druid. A single Druid. Which is cool, and hey - I don't care that I got my Snuggybear handed to me. I play an evil character and as far as I see it, playing an evil character is essentially conceding from conception of idea that you are going to be serving yourself up as a meat to good aligned PCs, heroes, heroines, and protagonists all the time. So when I get killed as an evil character, I don't really care. I feel like I am doing a service anyway, by providing conflict where conflict may not exist.

What I am inquiring about is the current state of the Druid. I really felt that, mechanically, it was kind of an RP-killer. The Druid, in question (and I won't name them as I don't know if that would be appropriate), transformed into Dragonshape, and really, at that point, we all knew mechanically, that we should roll over and present our bellies. But being evil-based characters, we fought. Of course we did! That's our darned way of life! And naturally we got whooped.

I recently saw a post where Dragonshape got a buff, on top of Monolithic shapes, and summoning, and spell-casting. And I know what you might say, "It comes down to how you build" - well I have a friend who has no idea how to build and can definitely still whoop almost everyone's butts in their Dragonshape/Monolithic shape. My observation at the moment comes from the fact that we had four characters, all high level - some not level 30 - and all were melee, mundane, no magic types of builds. We couldn't hit the dragon, really. It's not that our builds are bad though - I think between all four of us we have over 40 years of NWN under our belt.

It just seems strange to me, that, with all the far inferior classes to a Druid, that Druid seems to me to be a Mary Sue on this server. I know this may cause some anger from those of you who play Druids, and do not be afraid! I am not trying to steal your class away from you - heck I don't have that influence.

It seems to me every class has their shortcomings except a Druid.
Fighter classes generally have low saves, often have to rely on others or UMD to buff them in order to survive - but are pin-cushions from a distance, are susceptible to spells, etc.
Rogue like classes are generally pretty frail - can use UMD and grenades and all that, but they really rely on a fighter class to take the brunt of the action so as they can benefit from sneak attacks, etc.
Wizard types are definitely the strongest classes with a high skill level, but are still just spellcasters. They can be overcome if they aren't careful or know their arsenal well enough.

But there doesn't seem to be very many shortcomings from a Druid... What? I know they suffer an attribute nerf at some point (might be when taking totemic) but really I've not seen that be a problem for any Druid.

My question is:

Are Druids too strong in their current state?

[Truesight]

My question is:

Are Druids too strong in their current state?

No.

You ran at the best PvE class like a mob and got cleaned up like one. Druids have serious PvP weaknesses and if you take advantage of them you and your friends will do better next time.

[Ironsoul]

Dragonshape was nerfed a little while ago on this server to make it more balanced.

Druids are really good PVE, probably one of the best solo characters for a lot of content.

PVP they have a low skill cap so it may appear they are really strong if everyone is relatively inexperienced skill wise and just act like its a pve encounter... but they are by no means invincible or among the most powerful characters on the PVP stage for this server (Except for a short while when their animal companions were horrific monsters of destruction).

*Edit* Basically exactly what the poster above me said.

[Jagel]

Hard to comment on the situation in question but dragon shape was definitely not buffed recently. Lost both monk synergy and inherent damage reduction for instance.

[Kenji]

My question is:

Are Druids too strong in their current state?

No.

You ran at the best PvE class like a mob and got cleaned up like one. Druids have serious PvP weaknesses and if you take advantage of them you and your friends will do better next time.

Such brutal honesty and concise reply. I still must give kudos to the OP for playing an evil character and is okay with getting off'd like one.

Can folks here elaborate on the weakness of Druids, then? Is it the lack of discipline if they don't multiclass? And if they do, is it the dispel CL that gets weakened?

I play rangers most of the time and I doubt I'll be clashing with one soon. But it'd be good to know if I face an evil druid somewhere down the line.

[Jagel]

No discipline, breach, banishing/WoF, elemental vulnurability of shapes ...

[Nulstarius]

They do get breach actually, an area one at that, which is uber nice.. Nature's balance applies a lesser breach effect, that gets better with trans foci.

But the dragonshape isn't all that powerful anymore. Biggest nerf likely is no more true seeing, can sneak past them or invis, besides the monk synergy and DR gone.

But. Druids are great, hard to get around. Great buffers with trans focu and aura of vitality. Nasty SoV dc's, the best summon spell in the game from elemental swarm.

However, if your idea of fighting a dragon is to run up to it and poke it with a sword that to the dragon looks like a toothpick, you sort of had it coming. In the world of forgotten realms, it's usually magic that kills dragons. Less so weapons, at least not before the dragon kills you back.

[Baron Saturday]

They do get breach actually, an area one at that, which is uber nice.. Nature's balance applies a lesser breach effect, that gets better with trans foci.

Jagel was, I suspect, saying that being hit by breach is one of their weaknesses, not that they lack breach spells.

[Jagel]

Indeed ^^

[The Kriv]

There is one hard and fast rule your characters learned (IC) the hard way.

Few things are more dangerous than a really pissed off druid.

[Mythic]

Hi! Its me that Druid who handed you a Snuggybear!

You guys made me panic and For sure, Druid is strong, But I was fully buffed, with my Animal Comp and Summon fully buffed vs you 4 who werent.

Having the right Tools (Spell Breach) And such while fighting a Druid (This in Particular one is fully "end-game" Geared) is pretty important. In a 1v1 Matchup against Un-buffed "Mundanes" a Buffed druid is going to win, Druids have a lot of options. Meaning there can be a lot of counterplay put into it, Banishment and Dismissal being the BANE of elemental forms, and Dragon being KD, Sneak and Crittable.

Your SD put in a lot of work, And you guys did do a lot of damage to me! Cut through my 300 damage Buffer Premonition and managed to take me down to around 300ish HP being "Badly Wounded" from the 800ish I had

Yes it was a 1v4, Buffed druid vs Unbuffed. But there were some things looking back that I find funny about the encounter!
One of you turning into a shapechange dragon, Me running momentarily to shift into something to kill your Shadowdancer
The two "tanks" just standing there taking a beating instead of running

Massive Props to you guys though for being great sports about it!

Now I have a lot of PvP "training" on this Character as well, Knowing how to fight a lot of builds and how to cover the "weaknesses" some can exploit! - For the record, I had between 64 and 74 AC during that fight. With my buffs and Imp Expertise

[StrykerMontgomery]

So unless thry have access to breach, they are hurting, eh? I mean i don't think even arcane archers hit that ac.

[Poolbrain]

So unless thry have access to breach, they are hurting, eh? I mean i don't think even arcane archers hit that ac.

You can corner sneak to keep getting the dragon flat footed to avoid the dodge ac (as the dragon lacks true sight). You can abuse kd with true strike potions, darkness if the dragon, dont have UV. Feint a retreat and wait for the unshift.

Take the dragon's friend as a hostage if the pvp is not spontaneus . Maybe threaten to burn the forest down?

You can make arcane archers that has between 55 to +60 ab. I think that imp exp will results in some quite unsatisfactory ab to be able to kill anyone with a shield or high dex.

[Jagel]

Also doorway > dragon.

[Leshpar]

As someone who plays a dragonshape druid: Yes, we are extremely powerful in pve. I can solo red dragon isle. The entirety of it.

That said, in pvp we seriously lack abilities. Maybe I'm just bad at pvp, but I basically hit pvp the same way I do pve. If you get caught without your wards up or without time or the space to shift into a dragon, you could die in the derro caves at level 30.

So yeah, don't just go rushing in against a dragon, it isn't going to end well. The dragon's claws are better than your adamantine plate armor.

[Ork]

So unless thry have access to breach, they are hurting, eh? I mean i don't think even arcane archers hit that ac.

It may shock you to know a lot of builds can get 68+ AC. Hell, the cookie-cutter 20/7/3 can get damn close.

[Sab1]

65+ Ac isn't really all that uncommon. Druids depend a lot on the type you want. Are you a caster who lets their summons fight for them or will you be a shifted in your face fighting druid? I find druids a decent balance they aren't super op in every situation but they aren't patheticly weak either.

[StrykerMontgomery]

65 + doesn't phase me, 70 + does lol

You are right though, it is what it is.

[msterswrdsmn]

Can folks here elaborate on the weakness of Druids, then? Is it the lack of discipline if they don't multiclass? And if they do, is it the dispel CL that gets weakened?

A few off the top of my head

1. Limited dispelling options-Druids only have up to greater dispelling and aside from natures blessing, have no breach spells. They're also painfully vunerable to dispelling themselves.

2. Offense- There aren't as many offensive ways a druid can deal significant damage by themselves without summons. There -are- ways, but they're not as obvious or accessable as some other classes (IGMS spam, WM crits, etc).

3. Skills- No discipline is an obvious one without multiclassing. Tumble as well.

4. Banishment/Dismissal-If you can get rid of a druids summons, they're significantly easier to deal with

[StrykerMontgomery]

I think druids are fine, but lack of discipline is a garbage argument when they got 5 lextra lvls after lvl 25 to play with in the age of cookie cutter skill dumping.

[Tourmaline]

I think druids are fine, but lack of discipline is a garbage argument when they got 5 lextra lvls after lvl 25 to play with in the age of cookie cutter skill dumping.

Cookie cookie druids in 2018 are going to be 30 levels pure, not skill dumping.

[Jagel]

Yeah multiclassing is the weaker choice for droods these days

[StrykerMontgomery]

Yeah multiclassing is the weaker choice for droods these days

Why is that?

[Baron Saturday]

Monolith elemental forms are really good, though not without weaknesses of their own.