Help with a Shadow Mage

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deyrot
Posts: 4
Joined: Wed Jun 13, 2018 11:24 pm

Help with a Shadow Mage

Post by deyrot » Wed Jun 13, 2018 11:49 pm

Hey guys. I used to play on the server ages ago and just came back with the new EE. Loving to get the nostalgy back as I am sure many others are. Back in my day Jjjerm did not allow Hips(ters) and when I saw the possiblity of playing a HipsterMage/Shadoweaver I went all in!

Reading on the foruns that they are somewhat on the weak side and the loss of evocation althogether for +2 dcs and Hips sounded allright. I know that DCs alone won´t be that OP and the +2 boost is not that much even for a dedicated mage, specially when there are so many options to get saves up. (spellcraft+PFS to name a few)

anyway I am wondering what would be the best path to go and fit all I would like in latter levels.

As for the build so far I´ve done

STR 10
Dex 10
Con 18
INT 20 ( +2 Gift)
Wis 8
Char 8

Also got gif of hide and gift of spot

Feats so far:
SF and GSF:
Conjuration
Abjuration
Enchantment
Ilusion
Necromancy (Just focus so far, taking GSF @18)

Empower spell

Character currently is at level 15.

As for epic spells what I wanted to have would be (I know all wont fit in, so I need the feedback to help me with choosing)

ESF
Necromancy *Is it worth it for the death spells alone?*
Enchantment *good deal for the basin and the +2 dc?*
Ilusion *good for the DC and seens to have an awesome RP flavor for a shadow mage; stay hidden and let your projection do the interaction* Is that possible? The projected Image looks like you? Or looks like the "shadow conjuration" spell version of you?

Epic Skill Focus
Hide (is it needed?)
Discipline ( a lot of people recomend this one. But how necessary would it be for a Hipster Wizard? Hide skills woulndt make up for it?)

Mummy Dust for the vampires ( Is it worth it? Or the Elementals can handle it?)

As for the leveling

I think going 20 wizard (or 21 if i want mummy dust) should be the way to go for the extra lvl 9 spells. Are any good arguments for going just 18?

As for the other 10 (or 9)

Pure Shadow dancer

or a mix of Shadow dancer bard
Wich would grant me UMD, Discipline, Spot, Evasion,Defensive Roll, Slippery Mind (if i dont take epic spell)

Or go Cookie Cutter and get 26wiz4bard(or rogue) And get 2 extra Epic Bonus wizard feats


Anyway Thanks for all that have read this far and are willing to help. This game´s got the BEST comunity of ANY game online and It´s awesome to be back

Let me hear your thoughts

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Peppermint
Posts: 1860
Joined: Mon Sep 08, 2014 4:44 pm

Re: Help with a Shadow Mage

Post by Peppermint » Sat Jun 16, 2018 5:54 am

Don't go shadowdancer. It's a waste. I'd added HiPS to shadow mages at 20 because we (i.e. the team at the time) had determined that Shadow Mage/Shadowdancer synergy was simply unworkable for various reasons. The intention was to supplant that synergy with something else. "Hopefully," we thought. "Everyone will eventually forget that shadowdancers grant shadowmages caster levels."

It didn't quite work that way, so here we are, answering that same question: no. Don't do shadowdancer.

Your best bet for a shadowmage is to build it more or less as a cookie cutter mage (e.g. Wizard 26/Bard 4). Just don't go for evocation, naturally.

You don't really need Epic Skill Focus: Hide--you're a wizard. You can go invisible. Stealth is best for breaking aggro in the short term, but otherwise irrelevant to you. (Caveat: If being super sneaky is important to your roleplay, sure, go ahead and take it.)

Mummy Dust is pretty good. The vampires do a lot of damage, but they're squishier than an elemental. Just bear in mind they require more micromanagement to do well with, but it can be worth the investment.

On the whole, Shadow Mage is pretty weak as a path. It feels like something that was meant to be expanded in the future, but that never happened. If you like the flavor of it, go ahead. Just don't plan on being a powerhouse.

Duchess_Says
Posts: 21
Joined: Fri Apr 06, 2018 7:56 pm

Re: Help with a Shadow Mage

Post by Duchess_Says » Sun Jun 17, 2018 7:42 pm

Having played one.. Don't take epic skill focus: hide, but don't neglect hide either. Shadow Mages are a very defensive class and being able to hide in plain sight is the most useful tool you have. Take greater or epic enchantment spell focus both for the boosted spells and to be able to max out stealth skills on your equipment. Stealth and invisibility aren't the same thing.

So yes definitely go 26 wizard/ 4 bard. I would take both dragon knight and mummy dust if I could because you will need them.

Though I would also suggest making a normal wizard instead and waiting until shadow mages get an inevitable update one of these days. They just aren't that great right now (you can make a stealthy wizard already, just no hips, but invisibility and darkness gets you most of the way there) and if they do get updated they may do it in a way that wrecks existing characters.

deyrot
Posts: 4
Joined: Wed Jun 13, 2018 11:24 pm

Re: Help with a Shadow Mage

Post by deyrot » Sun Jun 17, 2018 8:57 pm

Duchess and Pepper thank you for the reply.

So Shadowdancer is a big no got it, so is the epic focus on Hide. Now that leads me into one further question about the Bard. Why is it the regular choice for the cookie cutter? I was wondering if Ranger would be an interesting option as it would still grant me Hide/Ms, discipline, access to divine wands and scrolls and on top of that one extra feat+trackless step+more Hp.
I´d be loosing UMD of course but I saw in the cutter build the rank there is 12 so I imagine it is not for some uber end game gear.

What am I missing? Why bard is a better choice than ranger?

**Ps: Duchess_says Are you from the "Duchess_Says" band or just a fan??

Tourmaline
Posts: 308
Joined: Sat Mar 04, 2017 7:51 am

Re: Help with a Shadow Mage

Post by Tourmaline » Sun Jun 17, 2018 10:25 pm

Bard gives a wizard UMD, discipline, Hide/MS, tumble and bluff/perform.

Ranger gives a free spell focus feat in lieu of favored enemy, Hide/MS, discipline, divine wands, animal language and some other perks.

Both are solid. When disguise was working I would always pick bard but ranger may have the edge now.

Hellscr3am
Posts: 24
Joined: Thu Jun 07, 2018 3:47 pm

Re: Help with a Shadow Mage

Post by Hellscr3am » Wed Jun 27, 2018 12:51 pm

Tourmaline wrote:
Sun Jun 17, 2018 10:25 pm
Bard gives a wizard UMD, discipline, Hide/MS, tumble and bluff/perform.

Ranger gives a free spell focus feat in lieu of favored enemy, Hide/MS, discipline, divine wands, animal language and some other perks.

Both are solid. When disguise was working I would always pick bard but ranger may have the edge now.
Sorry, I don't mean to "Necro post" (10 days isn't so bad is it?) But reading this made me pause.

I'm currently aiming at the cookie cutter build for Wizard (which is why its relatively relevant to this thread) and going for 26/4 bard. My understanding was that you do this in order to get discipline (and shouldn't affect my ability to get my epic spell foci or epic spells). I don't intend on using disguise, should I aim for ranger instead? Is the bard choice better for UMD?

deyrot
Posts: 4
Joined: Wed Jun 13, 2018 11:24 pm

Re: Help with a Shadow Mage

Post by deyrot » Wed Jun 27, 2018 2:08 pm

Hey OP here. I was torn about the choice aswell, both are very solid options. But I guess it depends on what you want really.

Bard does get you Bluff/Perform wich is cool and opens neat RP paths and grants you UMD. I decided to go ranger tho as it'd get me:

+4 hide/ms (trackless step)
+12 HP (3lvls X4 Hp dif)
You can use divine wands (covering most but not all UMD would give me, still can't use divine scrolls outside of the ranger book, but if it's the same spell on a wand you can. Works for me)
+ You can get an extra spell focus or GSF
+6 skill points (rangers get 6 per lvl in arelith and bards get 4)
Animal language?? (hahah that one's odd)

What you´ll miss

Tumble- My wizard ac is already too horrible for me to bother anyway
Bluff/perform- that one sucks, but not as much with the system currently broken
UMD- more universal than just wands but i can leave with it
Pickpocket- I'd love that if we had mage hand :D (stealing folks from distance? Huzzah!)

But yeah, that's how I made the (hard) decision. Hope it helped

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