Arelith

Is there any viable archer builds for gnome or should i just forget it?

Well, we can first look at all the Earthkin races:
Gnomes: Str -2, Con +2, No access to longbow
Halfling: Str -2, Dex +2, No access to longbow
Dwarf: Cha -2, Con +2, Access to longbow

Both halfling and (shield) dwarf are better archers than gnomes, per se, but don't let that dissuade you from going for gimped builds. More interesting RP this way.

I've played a Halfling Knight (with riding, the horse turns into half its size!) and Half-Orc Enchanter. Both are supposedly inferior due to their stats but makes for interesting RP non-the-less.

As for an archer build for a gnome, if you don't care about making arrows, I've always had a mind of making a pure mundane non-AA archer build:

Ranger (Sniper Path) 20 / Fighter 6 / Bard or Rogue 4

Essentially you'll have all the feats to go for expertise, improved expertise, and weapon focus on a melee weapon so you're not always holding a bow, lotsa extra feats for (epic) skill focus: Discipline and (Epic) Iron Will for will saves. And a lot of favored enemies for even higher boosted single target damages.

Maybe others will have a better combo in mind.

Ranger needs at least 21 levels for Bane of Enemies, which you'll surely want! An easy tweak for Kenji's build is Ranger21/Fighter6/BardorRogue3; you could take go DEX or WIS with it. Another option for WIS-based is a 3 level monk dip for the Monk AC, ending up with something like Ranger24/Monk3/Rogue3, Ranger23/Monk4/Rogue3, Ranger23/Fighter4/Monk3, Ranger21/Fighter6/Monk3, Ranger27/Monk3, Ranger26/Monk4, and so on!

A rogue 24/ fighter 6 with point blank shot, rapid shot and shortbow focus (backed up with a melee weapon focus if you can manage it) would be the way I would go, and rely on sneak attack damage instead of fancy arrows. Rogue grenades couldn't possibly be more perfect for gnome RP, IMO.

With Sniper path, rangers get Point Blank/Rapid shot feats for free at lvl1, and called shot feat for free at lvl9. That's three bonus feats for the player's use. I'd pick Mounted Combat and Mounted Archery because kiting is that much more fun! Also, Damask arrows only add 3 damage instead of 6 I believe.

Good to know about needing to at least take Ranger 21 for the Bane of Enemies, I never dedicated a ranger to that of a high level before.

Now the question is, what is the difference in between Ranger 21/Fighter 6/BardRogue 3 vs Ranger 23/Fighter 4/BardRogue 3?

Feat-number-wise they are the same, I imagine saves would be different somehow? With Fighter 6, you can take the fighter levels earlier so it's not a wait til epic level dump. Maybe caster spell levels?

They're pretty similar. Fighter 5 gets 1 more AC (from the fighter armor bonus), and the bonus feat at fighter 6 can be used for a wider variety of things. Ranger 23 gets a slightly higher caster level, which means that much harder to dispel, and a handful more skill points. The other thing is that so long as 3/4ths of your levels are ranger, animal empathy turns animals into henchmen that persist through rests. Ranger 23 means that even at level 30, empathied animals will be henchmen - which isn't a huge deal, since by that point there's not all that many animals worth using empathy on.

you already have a spare feat. you can drop toughness and get mounted combat/mounted archery if you want.

as you can see, you really don't need to save 3 feats from sniper path. you have everything you need without it.

23/4/3 is better in every way except the 1 AC loss (your ac will bad anyway). More skills, higher spell level, harder to dispel, and empathy companions if you want them.

I'm liking the Ranger 23/Fighter 4/Rogue 3 more and more, though I'd still pick sniper path because feats are THAT great! I mean, there are bound to be fools who take the crafting route and make arrows for everyone, right? (Yes, I'm making fun of myself and my three quartermaster characters whom now roam the streets of Arelith and Skal)

With the extra three feats, I guess the player can then take Skill Focus: Discipline or Iron Will to boost the weak will save or make the mounted archer even harder to knocked down or get called shots on on top of the toughness feat.

What about the ability scores? How's this look:
Str 10
Dex 17 (19 Gift)
Con 14 (16 Gift)
Wis 11
Int 14
Cha 8

For dwarves it'd be 16 con, 10 str, and 6 cha. This way Great Dex isn't needed, but I guess the build will be reliant on buffing STR and vulnerable to dispels if no items were utilized to buff str for the might bonus on bows.

I calculated the skills to be 258 points, enough for:
Discipline 33 / Ride 30 / UMD 17 / Tumble 30 / Spot 30 / Hide 33 / MS 33 / Spellcraft 16 / Heal 20

Kenji3108 wrote: ↑

Thu Jun 14, 2018 3:52 am

I'm liking the Ranger 23/Fighter 4/Rogue 3 more and more, though I'd still pick sniper path because feats are THAT great! I mean, there are bound to be fools who take the crafting route and make arrows for everyone, right?

Last time I saw a bundle of damask arrows on sale it went for 2500 gold.
The bundle has 500 arrows in it, so it'll be 5gp per arrow.
Choose wisely.

I believe sniper path is not really worth picking, although it depends on what you do. ARcher path gives same damage bonuses as sniper, and you can simply pick the feats you need during first three levels. There are just 3 feats total.

Ranger also allows your character to become enchanter and make their own gear.

Meaning you could pick point blank shot, improved rapid shot, spell focus and great spell focus conjuration, invest into alchemy a bit, and you'll get free arrows, will be able to make essences to enchant them.

Basically, last time rolled an archer I took one look at arrow/bolt crafting mechanics and decided I don't wanna deal with it. There are exceptions of course. If you're an arcane archer you'll get damage increase from class levels, but that requires you to be an elf. Another option is pure rogue whose main source of damage will be sneak attack dice (meaning they'll technically be able to just throw pebbles at stuff to kill it), but if you're starting as a ranger, then you're not a pure rogue.

NegInfinity wrote: ↑

Thu Jun 14, 2018 4:57 am

Last time I saw a bundle of damask arrows on sale it went for 2500 gold.
The bundle has 500 arrows in it, so it'll be 5gp per arrow.
Choose wisely.

Yea, those only started circulating around because my character threw away SO MANY damask arrow bundles in Bendir and Brog's Sharity barrel from being Ranger 10. I still have like 10 bundles on me, weighing over 30lbs. Some opportunists happened to pick them up and put them on sale.

Given that the Quartermaster build can supply an army of archers, what I want from the archer build (not OP's wishes, but my own selfish desires) is to maximize damage output and survivability without worrying about the damask arrows.

I digress, any thoughts on what the ability scores should look like?

Kenji3108 wrote: ↑

Thu Jun 14, 2018 5:09 am

NegInfinity wrote: ↑

Thu Jun 14, 2018 4:57 am

Last time I saw a bundle of damask arrows on sale it went for 2500 gold.
The bundle has 500 arrows in it, so it'll be 5gp per arrow.
Choose wisely.

Yea, those only started circulating around because my character threw away SO MANY damask arrow bundles in Bendir and Brog's Sharity barrel from being Ranger 10. I still have like 10 bundles on me, weighing over 30lbs. Some opportunists happened to pick them up and put them on sale.

Given that the Quartermaster build can supply an army of archers, what I want from the archer build (not OP's wishes, but my own selfish desires) is to maximize damage output and survivability without worrying about the damask arrows.

I digress, any thoughts on what the ability scores should look like?

If you want to maximize damage, it might be a good idea to add 2 points of strength to utilize mighty bonus of composite shortbow. But that can be taken care of with +STR enchantments. I simply do not remember if composite shortbow is +1 or +2 mighty.

In addition to that , with 11 wisdom you'll be only able to cast 1st level ranger spells. You might want tor ethink this. While one of the most useful spells - ultravision - is level 1, level 2 has cat's grace and one with the land. One with the land grants bonuses to hide, move silently, set trap and animal empathy. This cannot be taken care of with iten enchantments, as spellcasting requires BASE wisdom score.

Check here:
http://nwn.wikia.com/wiki/Ranger
If there's anything you'd like to have on your character.

Basically, in case of your build rather than putting gift onto constitution, I'd consider putting it into strength or wisdom. Wisdom unlocks more spells, and strength adds small bonus to damage and carrying capacity. However, both constitution and strength can be increased with enchanted gear for the same effect, while you can't do the same with wisdom. Even if you get +10 wisdom with gear, you'll only get bonus spells, and will not be able to cast speplls from higher circles.

I doubt I'll be playing any of the aforementioned archer builds, but I want folks to have a basic archer build or discussion out here so I can see those bundled arrows used for good (or evil)

Good to know about needing base wisdom to cast the corresponding level circle spells. I might have to tweak my quartermaster build because of that.

As for the archer build, I might just start a thread of my own and keep it updated.
Here is the new set of ability scores, the gift part in between wis, con, or str is really interchangeable. Ranger only benefits from a maximum of 14 wis and 14str before the hard diminishing returns set in compared to higher con.
Str 12 / Dex 16 (18 gift) / Con 12 (14 gift) / Wis 14 / Int 14 / Cha 8 (Gnome)
Str 12 / Dex 16 (18 gift) / Con 14 (16 gift) / Wis 14 / Int 14 / Cha 6 (Dwarf)

Since ranger levels will be around 23, might as well get access to all the spells. The build can go for Str 13/Wis 13 though, fourth level spells only seem to only have freedom of movement worth mentioning (unless others have input on this, I wouldn't know to be honest). Or even Str 14 / Wis 12 for Cat's Grace, with UMD I think the build can just use an invisibility purge wand if need be.

Composite Short/Longbows have a might of +3, or +4 if it's +2. Grand Longbow is still the best option out there for highest enhancement bonus, though, even with less mighty bonus.

I know bows are the way the go, but if you are going for the RP flavor and don't want the archer path, I would highly consider Heavy crossbows as a gnome since gnomes are all about mechanical weapons. (blind speed is still an option too if you are doing lots of rogue lvls) You might lose out on rapid shot, but it has higher damage so is more ammo efficient and having a higher crit range is also a nice touch.

Also, I recommend going dex based as I am not sure zen archery works for GONNES (you gotta use a gonne as a gnome, great way of finishing bosses off too when they are near dead). With ranger and, or rogue lvls you can also easily be a trap setter. The lots of rangers lvls can also give you hide in plain sight in natural environment.

*EDIT*

Grand masterly crossbows look nice.

Rangers with sniper path can work with crossbows, two out of three of the free feats and the damage boost are still nice! Crafting bundles can be a hassle, but really, all the difference in between damask bolts and steel bolts is just 1 piercing damage. Crossbows get 1 less APR compared to bows due to rapid shots and require to use 1 extra feat (or two, depending on perspective on the free feat) for Rapid Reload. The crit threat range of a crossbow, however, along with Improved Critical feat, is better than a bow's (17-20 vs 19-20).

It may not be the best option, but it is far from being the worst ranged option out there. Crossbows are still viable options. Since Heavy Crossbows are medium weapons, gnomes can actually use it, too. (Sorry, repeating what StrykerMontgomery said, but always go for the thematic route rather than min/maxing route! RP > mechanics all the time)

Edit: Removed the image and crafting skills seeing as they are outdated since the ranger update.