Help/questions with Wizard Build.

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Hellscr3am
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Help/questions with Wizard Build.

Post by Hellscr3am » Tue Jun 12, 2018 6:32 pm

Hi folks!

I come seeking your knowledge and wisdom.

I've been working on a char for a while now (I don't have much playtime so things are going slowly but surely). My build is based on the cookie cutter wizard build and is pretty straightforward but I have some questions.

I met a very interesting character in game which could summon 3-4 vampires with mummy dust. That PC vaguely explained that if I seek this knowledge I'll have to venture into the underdark..a quest most fitting for a knowledge-hungry young wizard.

The questions: I would like to ESF in Conjuration, Evocation, Transmutation and Necromancy. I don't plan on actively participating in PVP but I don't want to flee at the first sign of trouble either..

Are ESF Necromancy / Transmutation worth it? with ESF Necromancy + Appropriate ingame knowledge, will I be able to summon a bunch of vampires?

Will taking Mummy Dust instead of Hellball cripple me in PVP?

Should I wait for the bard dip to start dumping points into Discipline?

I'll have left over skill points. Is Tumble worth it?

Thanks!

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Commissar
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Re: Help/questions with Wizard Build.

Post by Commissar » Tue Jun 12, 2018 10:22 pm

Hullo, and welcome to the server!
Hellscr3am wrote:
Tue Jun 12, 2018 6:32 pm
Are ESF Necromancy / Transmutation worth it? with ESF Necromancy + Appropriate ingame knowledge, will I be able to summon a bunch of vampires?
Necromancy's primary use is to increase spell DCs on save-or-die spells. Your vampires will be almost as powerful without it (and, in fact, you can summon a bunch of vampires without the focus). The difference comes down to +3 Skills/Hit Dice/Damage/AB/AC/Saves. It's a smaller buff then you get to your conjuration-school summons (which, since necromancy doesn't get rolling until relatively late in your progression, are what you'll be using more often). Whether those buffs are worth it or not depends on the sort of character you want to play.

Transmutation is an excellent quality of life school - being able to provide more powerful buffs and have access to one free teleport per rest are both very handy (as well as being able to create short-lived portals). Parties will love you. Golems aren't anything to write home about but you'll be able to make them as well, which can create some fun RP.
Hellscr3am wrote:
Tue Jun 12, 2018 6:32 pm
Will taking Mummy Dust instead of Hellball cripple me in PVP?
I'll leave this one for people who know more about PvP. I've heard secondhand that vampire swarms can be pretty effective at cutting down characters. I may be wrong.
Hellscr3am wrote:
Tue Jun 12, 2018 6:32 pm
Should I wait for the bard dip to start dumping points into Discipline?
Absolutely. Save those skillpoints. As a mage, you'll be hiding behind either a summon or a fighter-type for most of your level progression. Stand well back, and you won't feel the absence of discipline. As an added bonus, you won't have to get the blood out of your robe.

Just avoid throwing a bunch of spells at things you're not confident are going to die. The survivors are likely to come and claw your face right off.
Hellscr3am wrote:
Tue Jun 12, 2018 6:32 pm
I'll have left over skill points. Is Tumble worth it?
Not really. Your AC is going to be pretty appalling as a wizard. Tumble won't make enough of a difference to increase your survivability at the level you get it at. You'll be relying on a combination of high CON and protective spells to keep yourself alive.

You could drop 15 points in it if you wanted to avoid attacks of opportunity, mind. Or just continue to do the wizard thing and stand well back.

Edit Note: I was wrong. Necromancy does boost undead summons. The post has been updated to reflect that.
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Re: Help/questions with Wizard Build.

Post by Conversations With Your Car Alarm » Tue Jun 12, 2018 10:58 pm

Your AC may not be good, but avoiding even one attack can save your life. Take full 30 points of Tumble.

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Baron Saturday
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Re: Help/questions with Wizard Build.

Post by Baron Saturday » Tue Jun 12, 2018 11:07 pm

Commissar wrote:
Tue Jun 12, 2018 10:22 pm
Hullo, and welcome to the server!
Hellscr3am wrote:
Tue Jun 12, 2018 6:32 pm
Are ESF Necromancy / Transmutation worth it? with ESF Necromancy + Appropriate ingame knowledge, will I be able to summon a bunch of vampires?
Necromancy is the only ESF that has no effect beyond increase your spell DCs. Your vampires will be just as powerful without it (and, in fact, you can summon a bunch of vampires without the focus). The only real use for ESF: Necromancy is to boost the DC on save-or-die spells. Whether that's worth it or not depends on the sort of character you want to play.

Transmutation is an excellent quality of life school - being able to provide more powerful buffs and have access to one free teleport per rest are both very handy (as well as being able to create short-lived portals). Parties will love you. Golems aren't anything to write home about but you'll be able to make them as well, which can create some fun RP.
Hellscr3am wrote:
Tue Jun 12, 2018 6:32 pm
Will taking Mummy Dust instead of Hellball cripple me in PVP?
I'll leave this one for people who know more about PvP. I've heard secondhand that vampire swarms can be pretty effective at cutting down characters. I may be wrong.
Correction re: Necromancy spell foci. They do provide bonuses to summoned undead, as per the Summoning Changes page. That said, you don't NEED it to whip up an undead swarm - all you need is Mummy Dust. I will say that it's probably better to focus on either Conjuration or Necromancy, rather than trying to squeeze in both. Both give you a powerful PvE tool (Mummy Dust for Necromancy, Ancient Elementals for Conjuration) that performs decently in PvP as well.

Generally speaking, you'll only be able to fit three ESF and two epic spells or four ESF and one epic spell on a cookie-cutter wizard, so there's some pretty hard choices to make there. I'm no expert on casters in general, but I'll try to give rough outlines on what you can expect from each ESF.

Conjuration: Buffed up (non-undead) summons. GSF increases summons tier by one, unlocking the Ancient line of Elementals with Summon Creature 9, and grants infinite uses of Melf's Acid Arrow. ESF allows you to attempt to summon another player to you once per rest. The target can refuse the summons.

Transmutation: Improves the "Zoo" spells (Bull's Strength, Endurance, etc) by up to +2 to the stat. GSF grants infinite uses of Burning Hands, allows you to create golems at level 15, and to teleport once per rest at level 21. ESF allows you to create a portal once per rest.

Evocation: GSF grants infinite uses of Magic Missile. ESF prevents Greater Ruin and Hellball from dealing backlash damage. I would argue that if you're going to take ESF, you should grab both Greater Ruin and Hellball, which are primarily going to be PvP tools. I don't know that I've ever seen them used in PvE.

Necromancy: Improves undead summons. GSF grants infinite uses of Ray of Enfeeblement.
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Hellscr3am
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Re: Help/questions with Wizard Build.

Post by Hellscr3am » Wed Jun 13, 2018 12:12 pm

Thank you all for your replies!

This is the build I've been working on so far (see below)

I was under the impression that it was possible to ESF in 4 different schools. But at the cost of an epic spell.

If it would be a good idea to have hellball/greater ruin, should I ditch ESF Transmutation? I'll be able to teleport myself once per rest but I won't be able to do it for party members? I feel like I'm trying to get best of both worlds which may not be realistic..

As for conjuration vs Necromancy. From what I saw so far..Conjuration seems better at lower levels. + I really like that I can "act normal" while partying with people. (Pesky people and their morals!).

How big of a difference would it make (on the Necro summons) between GSF and ESF?

Human: (Quick to Master)
01: Wizard(1): Spell Focus: Conjuration, Greater Spell Focus: Conjuration, {Scribe Scroll}
02: Wizard(2)
03: Wizard(3): Extend Spell
04: Wizard(4): INT+1, (INT=21)
05: Wizard(5): Maximize Spell
06: Wizard(6): SF : Evocation
07: Wizard(7)
08: Wizard(8): INT+1, (INT=22)
09: Wizard(9): Greater Spell Focus Evocation
10: Wizard(10): SF : Necromancy
11: Wizard(11)
12: Wizard(12): INT+1, Greater Spell Focus (Necromancy?), (INT=23)
13: Wizard(13)
14: Wizard(14)
15: Wizard(15): SF and GSF Transmutation?
16: Wizard(16): INT+1, (INT=24)
17: Wizard(17)
18: Wizard(18): Toughness
19: Bard(1)
20: Bard(2): INT+1, (INT=25)
21: Bard(3): Epic Spell Focus: Conjuration
22: Wizard(19)
23: Wizard(20): ESF : Necromancy
24: Wizard(21): INT+1, Epic Spell: Mummy Dust, (INT=26)
25: Wizard(22)
26: Wizard(23): ESF : Evocation
27: Wizard(24): Epic Skill Focus: Discipline
28: Wizard(25): INT+1, (INT=27)
29: Bard(4)
30: Wizard(26): Great Intelligence I, (INT=28), ESF Transmutation? Or Another Epic spell? (Hellball or Greater Ruin?)

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Commissar
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Re: Help/questions with Wizard Build.

Post by Commissar » Thu Jun 14, 2018 7:32 am

I'd say take transmutation ESF over Hellball/Gruin; solely based on how often you're likely to get benefit from them. The transmutation focus'll be useful every time you cast a buff (which you'll be doing a lot), and just about every time you run a dungeon.

Hellball and greater ruin tend to be more useful for PvP (and, if you're doing that a lot, having both of them would be preferable). It's worth bearing in mind that PvP really isn't all that common - in the time I've been on the server, I can count on one hand how many times my characters have had to throw down, and I've never felt as if losing was an end. There's a lot of story that can come out of losing a PvP facedown, after all, and a good chunk of the conflict RP I've come across has been resolved in emotes, rather than mechanical clashes.

You could always start out with 19 INT instead of 20. It'll free up some more stat points, and you won't have to spend an epic feat to bump your intelligence up again - which'll open up room to fit in ESF: Transmutation along with one other feat at level 30.

Taking ESF: Necromancy will get your summons an extra +1AC/AB/Skills/Hit Dice/Damage/Saves compared to the GSF (check out the Summoning Changes page. It's got a lot of good info on this stuff).

Ultimately, the nice thing about wizards is that they're very, very hard to stuff up catastrophically. Have INT as a primary stat? Have a bunch of wizard levels? Wonderful, you'll be able to contribute. I played a wizard/ranger to thirty that had ESF Conjuration/Divination/Illusion/Enchantment and didn't get a single epic spell until level thirty, and never felt particularly like I was suffering for it.

My honest advice if you're already playing the character, is just to keep on trucking and see what appeals to you when you get there. The build you've got is pretty solid in broad terms (the only deviation is that most builds will choose conjuration or necromancy, but that's hardly a show-stopper) - you won't torpedo it by choosing one thing or another at level 30 and, by then, you should have a good grip on just what will benefit your creepy, corpse-mangling necromancer more.
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Hellscr3am
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Re: Help/questions with Wizard Build.

Post by Hellscr3am » Thu Jun 14, 2018 1:13 pm

Very good! I'll follow your advice and head for the transmutation ESF. As I said, I'm not planning on making a PVP machine, I just don't want to have to flee or die at the first sign of trouble. My character is clearly evil but not a psycho maniac hellbent on destroying everyone. More like evil wizard hellbent on becoming a lich so he can continue his study forever.

I want to be able to defend myself considering that I'm slowly aiming at a mild antagonistic role and from what I've seen so far there's a paladin or a pesky elf around every corner complaining about evil hahaha.

Thanks alot for the advice. I really appreciate it!

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Peppermint
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Re: Help/questions with Wizard Build.

Post by Peppermint » Sat Jun 16, 2018 5:34 am

I don't feel that ESF Necromancy is worth it for the summons. GSF Necromancy is arguably worth it, but ESF is a large investment for just +1 point.

Back when I was working on summons, I'd planned to buff the ESF bonus here to +4. Just never got around to it.

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