The Quartermaster build (Ranger, Archer Path)

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Kenji
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Re: Quartermaster build (Archer path)

Post by Kenji » Fri Jun 08, 2018 2:25 pm

Just wanted to give thanks to those who shared their thoughts and their knowledge of the game here to help me 'complete' the build. I would have messed up the build halfway through the grind if it weren't for this discussion.

I have a few questions left: What should my last few levels look like?

I imagine Rogue 13 should be taken by 28 for Epic Dodge using the bonus feat, Tumble 30 should be reached then and I don't think there are any Rogue exclusive skills I need boosting up to 33 that ranger doesn't already cover. And Level 29 / 30 taken by Ranger 11 / 12 for the last discipline/skill dump, an extra +2 ranged damage and access to level 3 ranger spells. The fighter 5 will have already reached its end by 24th level, should I delay it til 27 instead?

Am I missing anything in this line of thought?

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Re: Quartermaster build (Archer path)

Post by Baron Saturday » Fri Jun 08, 2018 5:04 pm

So for epic levels:
21 (Ra 10): Great Dex 1, EWF (from Ranger bonus feat)
22 (Ro 8)
23 (Ro 9)
24 (F 5): EWS, Dex +1
25 (Ro 10)
26 (Ro 11)
27 (Ro 12): Epic Dodge
28 (Ro 13): Blinding Speed, Dex +1
29 (Ra 11)
30 (Ra 12): ESF Discipline

Is what I would suggest.
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Re: Quartermaster build (Archer path)

Post by Kenji » Sat Jun 09, 2018 1:11 pm

On NWN wiki, it says that the bonus feat (intended for FE) can be used for greater spell focus, is this still the true for Arelith? I've tried looking up on relevant information to no avail.

All I know is that in order to take SF: Enchantment, the character needs to be able to cast spells. If I can somehow get Ranger 4 on a General Feat level and take SF, then I can use Ranger 5's bonus feat to take GSF: Enchantment instead of FE, think that's possible? I've tested it out on the Pretty Good Character builder and it actually works (though the 3 level minimum required for Arelith to multiclass may make it more of a hassle).

So here's the list of early game levels:
Level / Class (Human)
1 - Ranger (1) - FE: Dragon / Point Blank Shot / Rapid Shot
2 - Ranger (2) - Evasion
3 - Ranger (3) - Uncanny Dodge I / Weapon Focus
4 - Rogue (1)
5 - Rogue (2)
6 - Rogue (3) - Called Shot
7 - Rogue (4)
8 - Rogue (5)
9 - Ranger (4) - Spell Focus
10 - Ranger (5) - Greater SF instead of FE

Think that'll work?

Edited in case anyone wants to see the whole feats for the levels.
Last edited by Kenji on Sat Jun 09, 2018 5:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Quartermaster build (Archer path)

Post by Jagel » Sat Jun 09, 2018 1:20 pm

It should.

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Re: Quartermaster build (Archer path)

Post by Opustus » Sat Jun 09, 2018 2:03 pm

I don't think you can pick other than FE at every fifth ranger as pre-epic.
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Re: Quartermaster build (Archer path)

Post by Kenji » Sat Jun 09, 2018 2:18 pm

The bonus feat on the NWN Ranger page listed both Favored Enemy and GSF. Most rangers don't take spell focus, thus GSF for the bonus feat is often overlooked. Unless Arelith changed the parameter, I have tested that my character can actually pick GSF: Enchantment pre-epic in the Pretty Good Character Creator module.

It'd be disappointing, however, if I tried in Arelith on a new character up to level10 only to find out it's changed, so I'm asking here.

Only one way to find out! I'll let you guys know if it's possible. Level10 should take only a few days to reach.

Edit: I have also compiled the build order in this google sheet: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... sp=sharing

Hope the link is okay. Feel free to remove it if it violates terms of service here.

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Re: Quartermaster build (Archer path)

Post by Opustus » Sat Jun 09, 2018 2:53 pm

Oh right you are, never in my ten years of NWN did I realise that. Neat! Links are okay, they are even preferred.
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Re: Quartermaster build (Archer path)

Post by Kenji » Thu Jun 14, 2018 5:19 pm

Edit: I -delete_character'd my messed up character and rerolled one.

Also, I assume in order to take Epic Dodge, one needs lvl10 Rogue to take Improved Evasion for the prereq, right?
Last edited by Kenji on Sat Jun 16, 2018 6:35 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Quartermaster build (Archer path)

Post by Baron Saturday » Thu Jun 14, 2018 5:33 pm

http://nwn.wikia.com/wiki/Epic_dodge
If you look in the Notes section, it will list all the class combos that meet the edodge prereqs. On Arelith, assassin 16 also has all the necessary feats.
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Re: Quartermaster build (Archer path)

Post by Kenji » Sat Jun 16, 2018 7:13 am

I tried to find any references to Arelith's version of Epic Dodge, so far it's not listed on the wiki, but I believe Defensive Roll is no longer required for Epic Dodge. EDIT: I'll have to recalibrate the build!

Either way, since the archer build for gnome discussion, I have rethought about the ability scores as well as the levels for the Quartermaster build:

How does this look?

Str 13 | Dex 16 | Con 12 | Wis 13 | Int 14 | Cha 8
Pre-epic Ranger9/Rogue11
Ranger 13 / Rogue 13 / Fighter 4 - Higher ranger levels for slightly better wands, later fighter levels for efficient conversion of fighter feats into Epic feats.

Problem is, it doesn't have ranger 10 until level25, that's a lot of levels to cover before getting access to damask arrows for mass production. Also, is wisdom 13 worth it? I don't see anything on the third circle wand-worthy other than invisibility purge. Probably still good to have, just so the option is there.

The level progression is listed on the link in the OP under Human 13/13/4, but, I have to say, I'm not looking forward to pre-epic. Even after post-epic, it'll take a lot more to get to the level for damask arrows before mass production of high-quality arrows.

Right now, even with my "inferior" and less optimized prototype build, I am already mass producing the arrows of my dreams (Not just 5x 99, mind you, I now have around 20x 99 of these sitting around to be used:
Image

I might make the build less for level30 characters, but more for 'immediate' build where the character gets access to damask arrows earlier and cares less about optimizing feat path.
Last edited by Kenji on Sat Jun 16, 2018 8:46 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Quartermaster build (Archer path)

Post by Baron Saturday » Sat Jun 16, 2018 7:54 am

Kenji3108 wrote:
Sat Jun 16, 2018 7:13 am
I tried to find any references to Arelith's version of Epic Dodge, so far it's not listed on the wiki, but I believe Defensive Roll is no longer required for Epic Dodge.
Arelith hasn't made any changes to Epic Dodge. Maybe you're thinking of Blinding Speed?
http://wiki.arelith.com/Feat_changes wrote:Blinding Speed: Is now an Instant action and an extraordinary effect (not affected by antimagic). Duration increased to 3 turns. Has unlimited uses per day, but 8 turns of cooldown period. Rogue levels diminish the cooldown by 1 turn/6 levels.
As I write this, I'm realizing that I messed up my earlier epic feat list:
Baron Saturday wrote:
Fri Jun 08, 2018 5:04 pm
So for epic levels:
21 (Ra 10): Great Dex 1, EWF (from Ranger bonus feat)
22 (Ro 8)
23 (Ro 9)
24 (F 5): EWS, Dex +1
25 (Ro 10)
26 (Ro 11)
27 (Ro 12): Epic Dodge
28 (Ro 13): Blinding Speed, Dex +1
29 (Ra 11)
30 (Ra 12): ESF Discipline

Is what I would suggest.
This is all wrong. Rogue 13 (and thus Defensive Roll) would have to come before, or on the same level as, Epic Dodge. If you're doing Rogue 11 pre-epic, that might look something like:
21 (F 1): Great Dex 1, EWF
22 (F 2):
23 (F 3)
24 (F 4): WS, EWS
25 (Ra 10): Prowess?
26 (Ro 12)
27 (Ro 13): Defensive Roll, Epic Dodge
28 (Ra 11)
29 (Ra 12)
30 (Ra 13): ESF Discipline

You'd lose some pre-epic feats, though. There's probably a much cleaner way to do this, but it has been a somewhat intense day, and I need to collapse. Apologies for the misleading info earlier! Mea culpa.
Rolled: Helene d'Arque, Sara Lyonall
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Re: Quartermaster build (Archer path)

Post by Kenji » Thu Jun 21, 2018 5:50 am

This post is to confirm that GSF can indeed be taken as the bonus feat in place of FE instead.

I have also compiled a more optimized build in both Human and Dwarf racial paths. (Provided links are images uploaded to imgur)
Human Quartermaster
Dwarven Quartermaster
(Not bothering with Elven ones since they're better off going AA routes)

And an immediate gratification path
Pre-epic Ranger 10/Rogue 10 for access to damask arrows 10 levels earlier, the downside is that an epic feat is traded for an FE.
This path, the quartermaster gets to start working with Damask Arrows at lvl15 instead of 25. Since an epic feat is traded off, I've also made a slight adjustment to the ability scores, which leads to the next question:

This probably should have been asked as the very first thing - Which ability scores should I use?
Str 13 / Dex 16 (18) / Con 12 / Wis 13 / Int 14 (16) / Cha 8 - default
or
Str 12 / Dex 17 (19) / Con 10 / Wis 13 / Int 14 (16) / Cha 8 - gives one extra epic feat

Should I use the latter for all builds? The extra epic feat can be used for either Armor Skin or Epic Will.

Edit: Thanks a lot, Baron Saturday, either way, you've been a great help. I didn't even realize epic dodge was possible at first for the build.

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Re: Quartermaster build (Archer path)

Post by Hellscr3am » Thu Jun 21, 2018 11:59 am

Kenji3108 wrote:
Wed Jun 06, 2018 2:24 pm
I've recently gotten my hands on a draconic phrasebook (luckily), where would I go about talking to folks who know the draconic tongue?
I'd hit up the Arcane Tower. Not only are there nice shops where you can find alot of components for crafting but pretty much everyone there speaks draconic. Not entirely sure what their rules are (in terms of "outsiders") but there are regular lectures done(when? FOIG :P) in different languages so people can learn. Pretty sure I've seen some half-orc barbarians and dwarven grunts there so it might not be restricted to apprentices and magus.

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Re: Quartermaster build (Archer path)

Post by Kenji » Sat Jun 23, 2018 4:18 am

New ranger and crafting update!

I have read and checked out the new recipes IG, also tested a few things out. The update is both good news and bad news.

Bad news:
- Old archers who have taken the feats using their general levels will now be a few feats behind the new archers.
- The old bundle mechanics have been overhauled, thus redistribution of crafting points is necessary
- Old bundles before the update can't target the new "Templates", thus rendering them weaker than the new bundles created
- I will have to retire all of my quartermasters en masse, more grind for me!

Good news is:
The quartermaster build concept holds up well, if anything, the new update allows three extra feat slots to be used for something else, entirely. Having looked at SF: Transmutation and its GSF equivalent, quartermasters can utilize GSF: Transmutation's -teleport, zoo spells also get boosted by +1!

What's even more ridiculous is the fact that if a character takes weapon foci of bows, crossbows, and slings, s/he can then generate three different types of ammo all at once (I have tested it, and one of the coders said this is anticipated and intended)! This makes the build now true to its name, it caters to all different types of launchers. I'm rather excited about this aspect and expect unexpected and funny RP out of it.

Here is the new level path:
https://i.imgur.com/Z6plri9.png

I am still learning and thinking about the newest crafting, I believe Gift of Craft is still necessary, and Alchemy only proves to be even more important to provide these "Templates" the stable essences. The new archer path will still circumvent the need to craft the Bundles that are used on the said template. The new focus is now on crafting the templates and augmenting it rather than the bundle itself.

What I have gathered so far:
Alchemy 22 (essences, oils)
Forging 43 (thieves' tool, templates, ingots, all the little things)
5 points left in Arts crafting and herbalism, I'll have to figure this part out eventually. The build won't be able to cut rare gems by itself, but all the common ones are easy to find and not a problem. Especially Topaz (sonic) and Garnet (negative) / Fire Agate (positive)
Hellscr3am wrote:
Thu Jun 21, 2018 11:59 am
I'd hit up the Arcane Tower. Not only are there nice shops where you can find alot of components for crafting but pretty much everyone there speaks draconic. Not entirely sure what their rules are (in terms of "outsiders") but there are regular lectures done(when? FOIG :P) in different languages so people can learn. Pretty sure I've seen some half-orc barbarians and dwarven grunts there so it might not be restricted to apprentices and magus.
Good to know about where to learn the Draconic language. I have been trying really hard to learn the languages with my limited Lore as well as int modifier. Do you have any idea how long it takes for one to fully 'learn' a language? A rough estimate and maybe some other players' experience when it comes to learning languages would be appreciated.

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Re: Quartermaster build (Archer path)

Post by Hellscr3am » Tue Jun 26, 2018 1:42 pm

Kenji3108 wrote:
Sat Jun 23, 2018 4:18 am
New ranger and crafting update!
Good to know about where to learn the Draconic language. I have been trying really hard to learn the languages with my limited Lore as well as int modifier. Do you have any idea how long it takes for one to fully 'learn' a language? A rough estimate and maybe some other players' experience when it comes to learning languages would be appreciated.
Hard to say really. It depends on your int modifier. The wiki says that it depends on "soft" modifier. So spells, equipment increasing your int should not help speed up the process.

One of my character has a really high modifier (+8/+9 I think?), I listened to over 3 hours of those classes with a phrasebook and I'm still beginner in the language I'm trying to learn. The whole thing is supposed to take alot of time. I suppose the Gift of Tongues helps if you took that initially.

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Re: Quartermaster build (Archer path)

Post by Baron Saturday » Tue Jun 26, 2018 8:08 pm

Hellscr3am wrote:
Tue Jun 26, 2018 1:42 pm
Hard to say really. It depends on your int modifier. The wiki says that it depends on "soft" modifier. So spells, equipment increasing your int should not help speed up the process.

One of my character has a really high modifier (+8/+9 I think?), I listened to over 3 hours of those classes with a phrasebook and I'm still beginner in the language I'm trying to learn. The whole thing is supposed to take alot of time. I suppose the Gift of Tongues helps if you took that initially.
Not quite. Your natural or hard Int modifier controls how MANY languages you can learn. The soft Int mod (as in, hard Int + equipment + buffs) DOES increase the speed at which you learn languages. My understanding is that languages can take several months to learn.
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Re: The Quartermaster build (Ranger, Archer Path)

Post by Kenji » Thu Jan 17, 2019 10:59 am

With the Dweomercraft Update, I have updated the old build to the newly improved, play-tested, and all around fun Quartermaster Build.

Essential Changes:
- Removed Rogue levels since Thieves' Tools are not in demand, but the bard levels can still be replaced with rogue for Thieves' Cant and skullduggery skills
- Removed Enchantment Foci since they are no longer needed for Dweomercraft
- Tier 3 Dweomercrafter (21 Ranger, Craft Wand, and ESF: Craft Armor)
- CP Regen at exactly 4 (Base 50, 31 of each Craft Armor/Weapon, ESF: Craft, and Gift of Craft)

Note: There are multiple ways to approach this, as well.

One could take Paladin levels instead of Fighter levels for more wand options, though the quartermaster is expected to be both Lawful Good and have the adequate RP.

Instead of Bard levels, one can take Rogue levels for the last few dips, as well, for access to Thieves' Cant.

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