Barbarian/shadowdancer build?

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Ioria92
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Barbarian/shadowdancer build?

Post by Ioria92 » Thu May 17, 2018 4:14 am

I'd like to create an halforc barb/sd but i have no idea for the build... any suggestion?

Void
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Re: Barbarian/shadowdancer build?

Post by Void » Thu May 17, 2018 4:26 am

Ioria92 wrote:
Thu May 17, 2018 4:14 am
I'd like to create an halforc barb/sd but i have no idea for the build... any suggestion?
Without rogue dip, it'll be a major pain, because nwn doesn't have "able learner" feat.

Basically, max tumble skill, take dodge and mobility feats, and either slowly raise hide/move silently (at the cost of 2 skill points each, because it is cross-class), and qualify for shadowdancer somewhere around level 16, or save up skillpoints and then take 3 levels of rogue by level 10, which will hurt strength of your rage abilities, but give you a sneak attack.

That's pretty much it.
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Baron Saturday
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Re: Barbarian/shadowdancer build?

Post by Baron Saturday » Thu May 17, 2018 4:40 am

I guess you could do... barb 21/rogue 4/SD 5? Barbarian 1-4, rogue 5-7, SD 8-11, SD 21, rogue 27, rest barbarian. Feats would probably be really tight. Take a look at the cookie-cutter barb for a rough idea on stat spread, feats to take, etc.

I can't actually, uh, RECOMMEND this build. I think it will struggle, and you sacrifice a lot by going for shadowdancer, while getting very little in return.
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Void
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Re: Barbarian/shadowdancer build?

Post by Void » Thu May 17, 2018 4:45 am

Basically, there are two ways to go about it: Slow and Fast.

Fast:
Start as barbarian, take dodge and mobility feats. For first levels, start saving up 2 skills worth skill points per level. So. Save up 8 skillpoints at level 1, 2 more (10 stored) at level 2, 2 more (12 stored) at level 3, 2 more (14 stored) at level 4. Then take 3 levels in a class that has access to hide/move silently skills, and dump all the stored skillpoints into hide and move silently. Keep increasing hide/move silently skills for 3 levels of that class. Then start taking shadowdancer levels. Classes that have access to those skills are rogue, ranger, bard. Your char won't be much of a barbarian, though.

Slow:
Start as barbarian, take dodge and mobility feats, and keep slowly rising hide/move silently skills. When you get them to 10 (which should happen at level 16 or 17), start taking shadowdacner levels, and dump all the new skillpoints you receive into hide/move silently, to get stealth to normal levels.

You'll have strong barbarian abilities, but you'll get shadowdacner levels late, and you'll waste ton of skillpoints training cross class skills.
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Opustus
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Re: Barbarian/shadowdancer build?

Post by Opustus » Thu May 17, 2018 5:00 am

I've played a sneakypants character with only a level 3 dip into Barbie for the movement speed and murderous temperament from Rage and albeit it's mere 3 levels, it feels very barbaric to play. So, something like Barb3/Ranger10/SD17 is also totally viable.
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Ioria92
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Re: Barbarian/shadowdancer build?

Post by Ioria92 » Thu May 17, 2018 11:20 am

Thank you guys, maybe it will be to much sacrifice to cross class all that skills... so i'll remake the question... A good sd STR based build? Or a Barb who has a good summon or a companion? (Possibily badass summon/companion, no evil)

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Jagel
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Re: Barbarian/shadowdancer build?

Post by Jagel » Thu May 17, 2018 11:26 am

Ranger/barb combo? Not a true wtfpwn combo, but you might be able to get something out of it

Ioria92
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Re: Barbarian/shadowdancer build?

Post by Ioria92 » Thu May 17, 2018 12:01 pm

And how do you see an 6/7/17 fighter/wm/barbarian?

Seven Sons of Sin
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Re: Barbarian/shadowdancer build?

Post by Seven Sons of Sin » Thu May 17, 2018 1:59 pm

Depending on your experience with the server....! I would say don't be deterred.

Totally make a barbarian/shadowdancer. From the mere thread title alone I was like "hot damn what is this cool janky nonsense." Yeah, sure mechanically it's probably mediocre. But so what?

(If you don't have a good grasp of the server, its mechanics, how PvP/PvE often plays down, the optimal way to gain XP, best crafting practices, etc. etc. "overall best practice", then I understand why you want to be able to tread the mechanical water).

Vippin had Epic Reputation as a feat.

There'll come a time when the novelty of unique character builds does far more to enhance roleplay and relationships and outweighs the mechanical downsides of less-than-optimal.

(^edit: which is often why you see some of our best builders and willfully choose to go after borderline mediocre builds because my god when you take epic weapon spec for the 100th time you start to question if you're just doing the same thing over and over again)
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Baron Saturday
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Re: Barbarian/shadowdancer build?

Post by Baron Saturday » Thu May 17, 2018 3:13 pm

Ioria92 wrote:
Thu May 17, 2018 12:01 pm
And how do you see an 6/7/17 fighter/wm/barbarian?
Tricky stat spread... needs 13 base dex & int for WM, 18 base con and (eventually) 25 base str to get the most out of barbarian. Good damage if you could make it work, but it might be a bit on the squishy side.

If you look through the cookie-cutter thread, you'll notice that almost every build there has a 3-4 level dip into rogue or barbarian. There's a reason for this - tumble and UMD are both insanely useful skills.

Now, something like ranger/SD/barbarian gives up UMD, which isn't awesome, but it DOES keep tumble, so that's halfway there. If your interest in SD is primarily for the shadow, Opustus's B3/R10/SD17 could work for you. If you're mostly interested in HiPS, though, you might try B16/R9/SD5, which would basically be a light armor dual-wielder, picking up Thundering Rage for up to 8 attacks/round.

Edit: Also, SSoS is correct! While I'll try to advise on the mechanics as best I can, mechanical strength does not always equal fun experience. Ultimately you want to play something you'll enjoy!
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StrykerMontgomery
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Re: Barbarian/shadowdancer build?

Post by StrykerMontgomery » Thu May 17, 2018 8:23 pm

In all about janky builds being made feasible.

Do barbarians in srelitubget hinus attack and dmahege rather than strength? (Look up arelith barbarian and shadow dancer) if so theb i refoomend a dex based barbarian at the time if you insist on going shadow dancer.

The real question i need to know. Is how much barbarian are wanting?

10barb/10rogue/5 shadow dancer gives you hips and epic dodge if you are dex based.

Also rogue levels lets you have a higher dex modifier on light armors.

If you are teally into being strength based. Hsving lots of.shadow dancer levels might be an option for higher hide and stronger shadow that can both guard you and offer you bonus sneak damage. Again i need to know where your heart is on the spectrum.
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Baron Saturday
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Re: Barbarian/shadowdancer build?

Post by Baron Saturday » Thu May 17, 2018 8:39 pm

StrykerMontgomery wrote:
Thu May 17, 2018 8:23 pm
Do barbarians in srelitubget hinus attack and dmahege rather than strength? (Look up arelith barbarian and shadow dancer) if so theb i refoomend a dex based barbarian at the time if you insist on going shadow dancer.
Translation please?
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StrykerMontgomery
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Re: Barbarian/shadowdancer build?

Post by StrykerMontgomery » Thu May 17, 2018 10:50 pm

Baron Saturday wrote:
Thu May 17, 2018 8:39 pm
StrykerMontgomery wrote:
Thu May 17, 2018 8:23 pm
Do barbarians in srelitubget hinus attack and dmahege rather than strength? (Look up arelith barbarian and shadow dancer) if so theb i refoomend a dex based barbarian at the time if you insist on going shadow dancer.
Translation please?
Was inquiring about arelith barbarans andnif they were str based or bonus damage in general raging which makes dex dual wielding more viable.
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Baron Saturday
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Re: Barbarian/shadowdancer build?

Post by Baron Saturday » Thu May 17, 2018 10:53 pm

Thought it was something like that. Get the impression that you're posting from a phone, which kinda... garbled things!
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Opustus
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Re: Barbarian/shadowdancer build?

Post by Opustus » Fri May 18, 2018 9:15 pm

I had no trouble understanding it, it's fine. :) The reader can also try to focus a bit more to understand better.

In theory, Barbie17/Rogue13 and Barbie15/Rogue10/SD5 ought to work well; I was warned against this before, but I genuinely think the synergies are relatively good. One could easily do the math of:

AC & damage per round of two-hand STR Barbie vs. AC & damage per round of dualwield DEX Barbie

The DEX loses out on Thundering rage and some rage bonuses, but I imagine gains quite a bit of damage and AC in return. The half-round stun for a sneak-attacker is absolute lunacy, with a good chance to succeed when catching someone unawares. The rage is superb as a stealth tool; being able to waddle round the corner that much faster (free action move speed bonus!) is sooo useful to any stealther. The +2 to AC, AB and slight damage bonus are good on anything.

I'm pretty sure the damage bonus is granted only to mainhand, which is a big bummer.
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Ioria92
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Re: Barbarian/shadowdancer build?

Post by Ioria92 » Sat May 19, 2018 3:27 am

It is possible an half way between good ragin/good summon shadow? However instead of a barbie, i'd like a sd streght based. Which do you suggest?

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Baron Saturday
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Re: Barbarian/shadowdancer build?

Post by Baron Saturday » Sat May 19, 2018 4:43 am

If you go pure barbarian, the earliest you can take SD is at level 18, so you get 13 SD levels max (which you need for Epic Shadowlord). Unfortunately, doing this mean: No Thundering Rage, no UMD, and no discipline dump in epic levels, so I wouldn't suggest it.

What might work would be 12 Barb/4 Rogue/14 SD, something along the lines of...
Half-Orc (I assume you still want to do half-orc?)
STR 16+2 gift
DEX 14
CON 17
INT 12+2 gift
WIS 8
CHA 6

1: B(1) - Expertise
2: B(2)
3: B(3) - Dodge
4: B(4) - { + CON }
5: R(1) -
6: R(2) - Mobility
7: R(3) -
8: SD(1) - { + STR }
9: SD(2) - Weapon Focus [Any one-handed]
10: SD(3)
11: SD(4)
12: SD(5) - Blind Fight, { + STR }
13: SD(6)
14: SD(7)
15: SD(8) - Improved Critical
16: B(5) - { + STR }
17: B(6)
18: B(7) -
19: B(8)
20: R(4) - UMD dump, { + STR }
21: SD(9) - Epic Weapon Focus
22: SD(10)
23: SD(11)
24: SD(12) - Epic Prowess, { + STR }
25: SD(13) - Epic Shadowlord
26: B(9)
27: SD(14) - Tumble dump
28: B(10) - { + STR }
29: B(11)
30: B(12) - ESF: Discipline

Few notes about skills:
- Your first three rogue levels are REALLY IMPORTANT. You'll get 30 skill points total during those levels, and you have to dedicate 23 of them to getting 10 hide, 8 move silent, and 5 tumble. With the remaining 7, I'd probably do 7 UMD (5 after Cha mod), which lets you use at least some wands.
- With the level 20 rogue dump, get UMD up to ~18, so 16 after Cha mod, which will let you use pretty much any wand/scroll with a bit leftover in case of some skill draining incident.
- You've got 242 skill points total. You want 30 tumble, 33 discipline, 18 UMD, and you have to have 10 hide/8 MS. That leaves you with 143 to play with. I'd suggest 33 taunt, 16 spellcraft (cross-classed), 33 heal (for healing up your shadow tank!), and then you've got another 45 for... whatever.

I threw this build together pretty quickly, so it may well be riddled with holes, and I haven't worked out saves/AC/AB, anything like that, but it's (roughly) based on my Strength SD build from back in the day, so it should be... reasonably solid? I can say from experience that you can get away with a really janky build in PvE just by virtue of the shadow, which gets insanely tanky even on strength builds.
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Re: Barbarian/shadowdancer build?

Post by TheShadowdove » Sun May 20, 2018 12:59 pm

Ioria92 wrote:
Thu May 17, 2018 11:20 am
Thank you guys, maybe it will be to much sacrifice to cross class all that skills... so i'll remake the question... A good sd STR based build? Or a Barb who has a good summon or a companion? (Possibily badass summon/companion, no evil)
You can roleplay ranger with the same manly rough and tumble fella who is akin to the wild, and good with an axe or knife in each hand.

21/4/5 ranger fighter SD or ranger rogue SD. Fighter for weapon specialization damage, or rogue for some sneak attack damage/easier SD access/maybe traps and such.

Ranger gets hips in natural areas for free at 16too, so you can skip SD if you don't feel gimped by not being able to hips in towns/cities/etc.

The favored/studied enemies adds a good flavor for stalking and savagely or strategically tearing into your prety, like a hunting predator, especially with the extra damage from bane of enemies.

You also get all of the dual wield feats for free if you want to hack at things with a couple of meaty weapons or use a double bladed weapon.

You get some sweet spells, like blade thirst, and a beefier animal companions. As well as anomal empathy if you feel like having a troupe of wild animal pals.

Decent hp/skill points too.

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Re: Barbarian/shadowdancer build?

Post by StrykerMontgomery » Mon May 21, 2018 12:20 am

I say going for a perfect balance of shadiw dancer/barb isn't inyour best interest (i also recommend tmrogue lvls if you want to be more shadow dancer based.

If you barely have enough shadow to get hips you can get thundering rage. This is cool if you want to do a strength style ambusher. But i honestly think going more for shadow dancer side with potential for epic dodge is cool. Especially since they inheret all your dual wield feats.
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Dr. B
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Re: Barbarian/shadowdancer build?

Post by Dr. B » Mon May 21, 2018 2:56 pm

Seven Sons of Sin wrote:
Thu May 17, 2018 1:59 pm

There'll come a time when the novelty of unique character builds does far more to enhance roleplay and relationships and outweighs the mechanical downsides of less-than-optimal.
When will that be?
Seven Sons of Sin wrote:
Thu May 17, 2018 1:59 pm
Vippin had Epic Reputation as a feat.
What a waste of a feat. He was a great roleplayer. Clicking the "Epic Reputation" button at levelup had nothing to do with that.

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