Arelith

Posted: **Wed May 16, 2018 8:50 am**

I'm debating between making a blackguard or palemaster drow character. However due to the ecl I am not sure what build combinations are actually viable (mechanically. Rpwise anything is viable).

Thoughts? Playing a male if/where relevant.

Posted: **Wed May 16, 2018 10:50 am**

Don’t make a choice based on ECL considerations. The UD has taken into account that everyone and their mum has ECL, so leveling is generally generous, and the writ system helps immensely.

As for your two ideas, both are viable as drow, and there’s plenty of builds floating around, I am however on my phone so I cannot search effectively at the moment!

Posted: **Wed May 16, 2018 7:13 pm**

*Nods* I'm less concerned about RP, I have a solid idea for both and will probably do both builds eventually, and both will be a LOT of fun. It's more working out how the epic-level stuff works as I've never actually been over level 22 before.

Posted: **Wed May 16, 2018 9:08 pm**

For Blackguard, there is a lot of possible variations, but for heavy-BG the following, I think, are the popular ones: BG16/Fighter10/Rogue4 - BG16/Rogue10/Fighter4 - BG17/Rogue13 (DEX) - BG16/Monk9/SD5 (probably falls short on feats, though, but edgelord par excellent)

For PM, most go with melee, such as Barbarian16/Bard4/PM10 or Fighter10/Bard4/PM16, which are interesting and make for great brooding undead-ish-warrior RP. I find them boring, because they can't dish out a lot of damage. I don't know how one would go about making a Wizard/PM, but it's entirely possible and a more knowledgable player is sure to lend you a hand with that.

Posted: **Thu May 17, 2018 1:18 am**

Okay, so after you suggested Barbarian/Bard/PM, I kind of fell in love of the idea of playing a drow palemaster with a freaking bodyguard walking around town for roleplaying purposes. Holy crap that would be awesome.

So taking the drow ECL +2 into account, I'm guessing a build of 12 Barb (Totem), 4 Bard (one level taken epic), 12 Pale Master (Dracolich spell).

Pros/Cons to this build? I think the 12 barb is solid and the 4 bard is a minimum, just not sure how pale master works for epic level, feats and such. Also it may be worth considering more bard levels so I can at least get level 4 spell slots and have more CL to work with.

Posted: **Thu May 17, 2018 2:01 am**

Few things:
- ECL doesn't prevent you from leveling up to 30, it just means you get slightly less XP along the way.
- You need at least 15 PM levels to qualify for epic spells such as Dragon Knight.
- You do NOT want to be casting any spells from your bard spellbook, as that will screw up your caster level and make you super easy to dispel.
- When you say bodyguard, do you mean the tribal barbarians? It would be a bad idea to be a tribal barbarian with this build. With only ~10 barbarian levels, the tribesmen will be extremely weak.
- Pale Master requires a DM token to take.

Posted: **Thu May 17, 2018 2:29 am**

ECL doesn't prevent you from reaching 30 class levels? Huh. I thought it did.

I believe you can get epic spells at level 11 with a prestige class like Pale Master. Could be mistaken.

Not even spells like Improved Invisibility?

Aye, I did mean the tribal barbarians. I realise they wouldn't be very powerful, but I love the image of walking around with them or using them as 'tests' for younger fighters as a qualification for something a lot more than their mechanical potential.

As for the DM token, I do not have one presently. But given I intend to roleplay the hell out of this I'm relatively certain that even if I don't get one I'll enjoy working toward it.

Posted: **Thu May 17, 2018 3:44 am**

I believe you can get epic spells at level 11 with a prestige class like Pale Master. Could be mistaken.

You are mistaken.

Posted: **Thu May 17, 2018 3:46 am**

I conclude therefore that I am mistaken.

Posted: **Thu May 17, 2018 4:25 am**

Flayeriv wrote: ↑
Thu May 17, 2018 2:29 am
ECL doesn't prevent you from reaching 30 class levels? Huh. I thought it did.

From the Gifts pages on the wiki, if you need confirmation:

ECL does not influence the maximum level achievable on Arelith. All characters can reach level 30.

Flayeriv wrote: ↑
Thu May 17, 2018 2:29 am
Not even spells like Improved Invisibility?

Nope! Since Pale Master doesn't increase caster level, a bard with just enough levels to cast improved invis would have a caster level of 10, which is laughably easy to dispel. Use wands instead. If you want to play a bard that actually uses its magic effectively, you really want 20-something bard levels. The purpose of bard in the builds Opustus listed is to give you access to PM, and to get tumble and UMD.

Flayeriv wrote: ↑
Thu May 17, 2018 2:29 am
Aye, I did mean the tribal barbarians. I realise they wouldn't be very powerful, but I love the image of walking around with them or using them as 'tests' for younger fighters as a qualification for something a lot more than their mechanical potential.

That's a fun idea, just do be aware that as a tribal barbarian, you're losing out on barbarian rage. The damage buff from rage seems to me to be the point of making a barbarian/PM in the first place.

Posted: **Thu May 17, 2018 7:52 am**

Noted on the bard spells. Thank you.

As for the barbarian rage, yeah it's totally mechanically better. And thensome. Without it the PM is lacklustre damage. But rule of cool trumps mechanics, the question is how far can I do both.

As it stands, I'm looking at 12 barbarian, 4 bard, 14 PM, but according to the above that doesn't give me enough levels to qualify for Dragon Knight, which is arguably way more desirable from a mechanics and coolness point of view.

Posted: **Thu May 17, 2018 2:48 pm**

Change that to 10 barb/4 bard/16 PM. You're basically doing a weaker version of the Melee PM build from the Cookie-Cutter thread, so can more or less follow that leveling scheme.

Also? You might consider converting the bard levels into warlock levels via the in-game NPC, which would kinda serve as an "intro to evil magic" and set your character on the PM path.

Posted: **Fri May 18, 2018 8:04 am**

That might fit the character concept better actually. Any specific perks to 4 levels of warlock aside from the obvious roleplay?

Posted: **Fri May 18, 2018 9:25 am**

Green or red glowy eyes. At the price of becoming dispel bait

Posted: **Fri May 18, 2018 9:41 am**

Okay, looking into Warlock, I'm thinking...

Barbarian 8 (gets me some small perks on the totem warrior)
Warlock 6 (Fey, gets me the 20% reduction for armour and a spell or two I like)
Pale Master 16 (Dragon!)

If I've done the math right, that should give me 16 BAB, although if I've done the math wrong then it might pay for me to up the barbarian levels a little and just rely on mage armour.

Posted: **Fri May 18, 2018 10:00 am**

Baron Saturday wrote: ↑
Thu May 17, 2018 4:25 am

Flayeriv wrote: ↑
Thu May 17, 2018 2:29 am
ECL doesn't prevent you from reaching 30 class levels? Huh. I thought it did.
From the Gifts pages on the wiki, if you need confirmation:
ECL does not influence the maximum level achievable on Arelith. All characters can reach level 30.

Flayeriv wrote: ↑
Thu May 17, 2018 2:29 am
Not even spells like Improved Invisibility?
Nope! Since Pale Master doesn't increase caster level, a bard with just enough levels to cast improved invis would have a caster level of 10, which is laughably easy to dispel. Use wands instead. If you want to play a bard that actually uses its magic effectively, you really want 20-something bard levels. The purpose of bard in the builds Opustus listed is to give you access to PM, and to get tumble and UMD.
Flayeriv wrote: ↑
Thu May 17, 2018 2:29 am
Aye, I did mean the tribal barbarians. I realise they wouldn't be very powerful, but I love the image of walking around with them or using them as 'tests' for younger fighters as a qualification for something a lot more than their mechanical potential.
That's a fun idea, just do be aware that as a tribal barbarian, you're losing out on barbarian rage. The damage buff from rage seems to me to be the point of making a barbarian/PM in the first place.

http://wiki.arelith.com/Pale_master

Arelith Change: On top of the vanilla spell slots, each 2 levels of Pale Master adds +1 caster level.

Posted: **Fri May 18, 2018 2:17 pm**

Oops, forgot about that! Still, not enough of a bonus to make bard casting worthwhile on this build. You'd have a caster level of, what, 12? If you were doing something wacky like bard 14/PM 16 with abj defense, then it could be at least semi-decent.

Thanks for reminding me, though.

Posted: **Wed May 30, 2018 5:49 pm**

Opustus wrote: ↑
Wed May 16, 2018 9:08 pm
I don't know how one would go about making a Wizard/PM, but it's entirely possible and a more knowledgable player is sure to lend you a hand with that.

Most just a wizard with undead summons instead of conjuration ones.

Posted: **Fri Jun 01, 2018 9:02 am**

I've already hit level 8 with this character, but it occurred to me that Monk 10, Bard 4, PM 16 might be a viable alternative build also.

Posted: **Sat Jun 02, 2018 2:54 pm**

The way palemaster fives epic spells is weird when you are just dipping into bard lol

Monk with bard song and palemaster bonuses and summoning dracolich. Cool though not op because your ab will be hurting and younare relying on physic combat prowess. I guess summons from palemaster will help lvl too.

Arelith

Drow builds

Drow builds

Re: Drow builds

Re: Drow builds

Re: Drow builds

Re: Drow builds

Re: Drow builds

Re: Drow builds

Re: Drow builds

Re: Drow builds

Re: Drow builds

Re: Drow builds

Re: Drow builds

Re: Drow builds

Re: Drow builds

Re: Drow builds

Re: Drow builds

Re: Drow builds

Re: Drow builds

Re: Drow builds

Re: Drow builds