Paladin Issue

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Sab1
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Paladin Issue

Post by Sab1 » Wed May 02, 2018 7:49 pm

I was looking at trying to make a non smiter paladin and someone suggested abj focus. Is this not an odd choice for a paladin?

TheShadowdove
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Re: Paladin Issue

Post by TheShadowdove » Wed May 02, 2018 8:10 pm

I asked the same question. Check the wiki. Abjuration has some special attributes that they have added that are particularly good for Paladin

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Hunter548
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Re: Paladin Issue

Post by Hunter548 » Wed May 02, 2018 10:54 pm

Abjuration lets you become immune to IGMS with access to a shield spell (via potions, wands or Brooches of Shielding), and adds to your Holy Sword spell dispel check. It's a very solid paladin pickup.
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Sab1
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Re: Paladin Issue

Post by Sab1 » Wed May 02, 2018 10:56 pm

Sweet I always assumed spell focus would be useless for a paladin. This has to hurt for an already feat starved class.

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Tarkus the dog
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Re: Paladin Issue

Post by Tarkus the dog » Thu May 03, 2018 1:08 am

I have to say after some thought when it comes to taking abjuration on a paladin, I think both feats are well worth the investment. Especially if you can fit arcane defense abjuration, which you /can/ and still have all the essential feats.

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Re: Paladin Issue

Post by StrykerMontgomery » Mon May 14, 2018 5:46 am

The abjurarion thing you should do if you imagine yourself killing evil mages ot at least feel responsible for keeping them in check. Otherwise I would not worry about it. I think they recommended it because they thought yoi would not be charisma based if you were not going for greater smiting. You have a weapon style in mind?
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Tarkus the dog
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Re: Paladin Issue

Post by Tarkus the dog » Mon May 14, 2018 11:03 am

No, I recommended it because its busted as Snuggle a Bugbear and useful in almost every scenario. If anyone is playing a full out greater smiting paladin in 2018, whats wrong with you?

Sab1
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Re: Paladin Issue

Post by Sab1 » Mon May 14, 2018 3:20 pm

Honestly I always found smiter paladins to be rather fun. But decided to try a more str type one this time. As for style probably longsword and shield.

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Re: Paladin Issue

Post by StrykerMontgomery » Tue May 15, 2018 12:09 am

Sab1 wrote:
Mon May 14, 2018 3:20 pm
Honestly I always found smiter paladins to be rather fun. But decided to try a more str type one this time. As for style probably longsword and shield.
Sword and shield is usually the bread and butter for a cha based paladin because of being able to add cha to both ac and damage and not relying on strength as much. That route is also feat expensive, but usually not too expensive.

The abjuration feats are definitely not a bad idea if you have the items to cast shield or just really enjoy holy avengers. I definitely eoukd look at how some ofnthe guide builds are done. If they are more charisma based than you wanted to be, you could just take only divine shield or might rather than both as trying to keep both buffs going at once can be a hassle.

But yeah, if you want an overall strong build. Look at guides. Im going to do something crazy like recommend you a weaponmaster paladin with scimitar and shield who does amazing crits with his holy avenger and has the ac to defend his allies from evil. Which is feat expensive but totally doable if you dont want to be utilizing those cha based feats much

*edit*

Pal 19/fighter 4/weaponmaster 7

Fourth fighter lvl taken at lvl 21 so you can get weapon specialization and epic weapon specialization at the same time. Or 18 paladin if you want weapon specialization early and dont care about that extra caster lvl.

Go nuts with strenegth and have a semi decent cha for saves and lay on hands.
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Xerah
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Re: Paladin Issue

Post by Xerah » Tue May 15, 2018 1:29 am

If you’re not doing epic pally, you’re likely better off doing only a dip. I think that build would be fairly poor. Plus it’s not possible to take all the feats at 21. You have to wait to 24 to take focus first.

Better off with 23 fighter levels and 4 pally level to get a +5 weapon.
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Re: Paladin Issue

Post by StrykerMontgomery » Tue May 15, 2018 6:07 am

Xerah wrote:
Tue May 15, 2018 1:29 am
If you’re not doing epic pally, you’re likely better off doing only a dip. I think that build would be fairly poor. Plus it’s not possible to take all the feats at 21. You have to wait to 24 to take focus first.

Better off with 23 fighter levels and 4 pally level to get a +5 weapon.
I did say not to take what I recommend on this topic lol

your right though, i forgot you need epic weapon focus too. So I would do 5 fighter lvls.

Also is 23 fighter for plus 5 weapon really worth it? well I guess if you are using a shield and get those shield bonus ac it is. But just for the plus 5, i say a holy avenger being casted on a Keen scimitar is definitely worth sacrificing the fighter plus 5 (maybe not the other bonuses a fighter gets though) when you also have a crit range of 10-20 crit range X3 crits with a holy avenger (like how cool is that!?)

Also since lay on hands is now just a cool down, he will be able to save on healing kits having a bunch of paladin lvls (and we are not even getting into the spells that arnt holy avenger) Also the 19 smite damage, not being a super smiter, wont be completely useless as it has a chance 50% chance of criting and getting times three damage.

Fun fact, paladin cure diseas ability seems to help with ability damage from other sources (assuming the source itself like poison has been dealth with).

Also depending on what feats he might want to take, only 4 paladin lvls would prob him certain paladin feats he might be interested in if he does want say divine might or divine shield (divine shield not exactly equal is the fighter's straight bonus to shield ac though, but is still something and this build as mentioned still provides other things)

Also a paladin gets hard points in wisdom for merely having more paladin lvls. That will help with stat spread if you are wanting to cast lvl 4 paladin spells. ALSO it means higher will saves and spot check. Did I also mention weapon master gets to have spot as a class skill which neither Paladin or Fighter gets so now your holy warrior can actually catch thieves in the acts of stealing and perhaps be snuck up on less?

Yes I know, i was betraying meta, hence I recommend him to look at the guides already there. I tend to always betray meta, it's in my nature.
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Rabbid
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Re: Paladin Issue

Post by Rabbid » Tue May 22, 2018 5:09 am

23 fighter aka Bryce is still a solid build. It's just different in approach to 23 paladin and it is purely down to preference
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