{Newbie} Ranger Build Suggestions

[MarleVVLL]

Hello new friends!

I've been playing MMOs since the early EQ1 days (prior to Sony's involvement) and have spent a bit of time on various NWN2 servers over the years. While I do enjoy D&D, I am honest enough to admit I cannot powergame the system (nor do I want to) but I also want to ensure any player I create ends up being useful for those whom I would like to adventure with; I think that's reasonable, right?

So, as a newbie, and with the following aims, what do you suggest I do?

1) I would like to create a character around using double bladed weapons -- hopefully this isn't a gimp move?

2) Choosing a Ranger (maybe for all 30 levels?), I'd love to be able to eventually use all 3 pets as indicated by the wiki. What's the best route for doing so?

3) I am open to leveling into other classes (maybe fighter, weapon master, or even blackguard).

4) Wood Elf female.

The fantasy I am after is an effective fighter, surrounded by pets, weaving through her enemies with a dual blade, using augmentative magic when necessary.

Please be kind! I'm new, but I hope to make this place home!

Thoughts?

[Astral]

First of all, Welcome aboard!

1) double sided weapons are MADE for rangers so go for it. Rangers get bonus to ac when using them AND the free feats to use them. This means you dont actually need the awkward 15 minimum dexterity for the two-weapon feats. You may still want 14 base dex for (EDIT:) LIGHT armors and ranger things, I'd take 14.

2) I have no idea how the pets work but I'm pretty sure taking 26 ranger 4 bard (and getting access to Use magic device Spellcraft) is objectively better.

3) as above.

4) Sure why not. If you're going strength based and double sided weapon you might as well take this race. Its not the strongest race available for your build but its not, by any means, terrible.


Also, since you're new, I'll add that you should take 14 wisdom for all your ranger spells, Blind Fight feat and 20 ranger lvls before you multi-class with anything.

[MarleVVLL]

First of all, Welcome aboard!

Thank you Astral! I appreciate the warm welcome.

1) double sided weapons are MADE for rangers so go for it. Rangers get bonus to ac when using them AND the free feats to use them. This means you dont actually need the awkward 15 minimum dexterity for the two-weapon feats. You may still want 14 base dex for medium armors and ranger things, I'd take 14.

I'm so happy to learn this. I heard the bonuses no longer apply when wearing medium armor, however? Is this wrong?

2) I have no idea how the pets work but I'm pretty sure taking 26 ranger 4 bard (and getting access to Use magic device Spellcraft) is objectively better.

Interesting. Are rangers barred from getting UMD & Spellcraft? Why Bard 4 and not 3? When would I take Bard?

[The1Kobra]

Rangers can only take tumble and spellcraft as a cross-class skill, and only bards, rogues, and assassins can take UMD. Since there's scaling benefits for tumble and spellcraft, it's better to take them when you can take them as class skills.

As for rangers and medium armor, what you lose is the benefits of the dual wield feat, AKA, you'll find that unless you take the feats yourself, your weapons will have a -4 AB on the mainhand and a -8 AB on the off-hand. If you take two weapon fighting but not ambidexterity, it'll be reduced to -2/-6. If you're using light armor, the penalties are only -2/-2, and you need take no feats for it.

Also, as for bard, you need to take the first 3 bard levels consecutively, so you'd probably want to take them in early epic (level 21 or 22) to start with the putting skills into tumble, UMD, and spellcraft, and then take the last one at level 29 or 30. You could just wait until level 27-29 to take the bard levels, but that's a long wait.

[MarleVVLL]

Rangers can only take tumble and spellcraft as a cross-class skill, and only bards, rogues, and assassins can take UMD. Since there's scaling benefits for tumble and spellcraft,
it's better to take them when you can take them as class skills.

...


Also, as for bard, you need to take the first 3 bard levels consecutively, so you'd probably want to take them in early epic (level 21 or 22) to start with the putting skills into tumble, UMD, and spellcraft, and then take the last one at level 29 or 30. You could just wait until level 27-29 to take the bard levels, but that's a long wait.

Interesting, thanks. Why should I wait so long for the bard levels? Do I lose a major benefit taking them earlier?

As for rangers and medium armor, what you lose is the benefits of the dual wield feat, AKA, you'll find that unless you take the feats yourself, your weapons will have a -4 AB on the mainhand and a -8 AB on the off-hand. If you take two weapon fighting but not ambidexterity, it'll be reduced to -2/-6. If you're using light armor, the penalties are only -2/-2, and you need take no feats for it.

This is what I was referrencing; thanks!

[Freyason]

Here you go, did this pretty quick so there might be few mistakes, I'll let experts look it over.

If you go handaxes in place of kukris replace exotic prof with knockdown

Fighter(6), Ranger(21), Bard(3), Wood Elf

STR: 20 (28)
DEX: 10
CON: 14
WIS: 14
INT: 14
CHA: 8

Wood Elf: (Hardiness vs. Enchantments, Keen Sense, Low-light Vision, Skill Affinity: Listen, Skill Affinity: Search, Skill Affinity: Spot, Sleeplessness)
01: Ranger(1): Weapon Proficiency Exotic, Favored Enemy: Humans, {Dual Wield}
02: Ranger(2)
03: Ranger(3): Expertise
04: Ranger(4): STR+1, (STR=21)
05: Ranger(5): Favored Enemy: Outsiders, Favored Enemy: Undeads
06: Ranger(6): Weapon Focus
07: Ranger(7)
08: Ranger(8): STR+1, (STR=22)
09: Ranger(9): Improved Critical, {Improved Two-Weapon Fighting}
10: Ranger(10): Favored Enemy: Half-Orcs, Favored Enemy: Giants
11: Ranger(11)
12: Ranger(12): STR+1, Blind Fight, (STR=23)
13: Ranger(13)
14: Ranger(14)
15: Ranger(15): Improved Expertise, Favored Enemy: Elves, Favored Enemy: Aberrations
16: Ranger(16): STR+1, (STR=24)
17: Ranger(17)
18: Ranger(18): Knockdown
19: Ranger(19)
20: Ranger(20): STR+1, Favored Enemy: Halflings, Favored Enemy: Dwarves, (STR=25)
21: Ranger(21): Bane of Enemies
22: Fighter(1): Epic Weapon Focus
23: Fighter(2): Armor Skin
24: Fighter(3): STR+1, Great Strength I, (STR=27)
25: Fighter(4): Epic Prowess
26: Fighter(5)
27: Fighter(6): Weapon Specialization, Epic Weapon Specialization
28: Bard(1): STR+1, (STR=28)
29: Bard(2)
30: Bard(3): Epic Fortitude

Hitpoints: 348
Skillpoints: 186
Saving Throws (Fortitude/Will/Reflex): 23/13/11
Saving Throw bonuses: Spells: +6, Mind Effects: +2
BAB: 25
AB (max, naked): 38 (melee), 26 (ranged)
AC (naked/mundane armor/shield only): 18/29
Spell Casting: Ranger(4)
Alignment Changes: 0

Disable Trap 35(37), Discipline 54(63), Heal 33(35), Hide 59(59), Lore 3(8), Move Silently 51(51), Open Lock 51(51), Search 18(22), Spellcraft 43(45), Tumble 30(30), UMD 16(15)

[MarleVVLL]

That is so useful; thanks!

A few questions --

I'd love Animal Empathy to be an invested skill if possible. Also, how would the feats changed if I wanted to emphasize the dual blades?

Additionally, would I be storing a lot of skill points towards the later levels for the Bard?

Thanks!

[Aodh Lazuli]

You say you want all the animals and stuff? I'd advise against this particular choice, but if you ABSOLUTELY need cute animals for your concept, the build below works. It's adapted from someone else's build to fit with your wood elf requirement.

It is extremely similar to the build above posted by freyason, just with more ranger levels for the animal empathy stuff.

Elf: (Take wood elf subrace, and STR and CON gifts)

Stats:
STR 16 (wood elf subrace+STR gift 20)
DEX 12 (wood elf subrace 10)
CON 12 (CON gift 14)
WIS 14
INT 14
CHA 8

23 Ranger/4 Fighter/3 Bard.

1. Ranger 1: Weapon Prof: Exotic. Favoured Enemy 1
2. Ranger 2:
3. Ranger 3: Weapon focus (double sword would be your best bet, imo)
4. Ranger 4: STR+1
5. Ranger 5: Favoured Enemy 2 (studied enemy 1)
6. Ranger 6: Blind Fight
7. Ranger 7:
8. Ranger 8: STR+1
9. Ranger 9: Expertise
10. Ranger 10: favoured enemy 3 (studied enemy 2)
11. Ranger 11:
12. Ranger 12: STR+1. Improved Expertise
13. Ranger 13:
14. Ranger 14:
15. Ranger 15: Improved Critical. Favoured Enemy 4 (studied enemy 3)
16. Ranger 16: STR+1
17. Ranger 17:
18. Ranger 18: Knockdown
19. Ranger 19:
20. Ranger 20: Favoured Enemy 5 (studied enemy 4)

21. Ranger 21: Bane of Enemies
22. Ranger 22:
23. Ranger 23: Epic Weapon Focus
24. Fighter 1: STR+1. Great Strength. Armour Skin.
25. Fighter 2: Epic Prowess
26. Fighter 3:
27. Fighter 4: Weapon Specialisation. Epic Weapon Specialisation.
28. Bard 1: STR+1
29. Bard 2:
30. Bard 3: Epic Skill Focus; Discipline.

Wear the ranger's studded leather. It's light armour, but you will meet the DEXmod cap with a small spell/gear/skleen investment.

[Freyason]

Dual blades as in double handed weapon?

You'd just go with build above. You'd have +2 to AB and easier time with blade thirst. With kukris you'd be able to switch to shield for some additional AC as well as an additional enchanting slot.

Animal empathy is up to you, and if you'd want 2 empathied animals you'd need 23 ranger at 30 (75%). I don't find it worth it personally, but you can do it by trading one of the skills for AE, and losing 1 AC from fighter 5.

Yea, you'd be saving good amount of skills for tumble, UMD and such.

[Aodh Lazuli]

Yea, you'd be saving good amount of skills for tumble, UMD and such.

Specifically, 30 points for tumble and 16 for UMD.

[MarleVVLL]

Dual blades as in double handed weapon?

You'd just go with build above. You'd have +2 to AB and easier time with blade thirst. With kukris you'd be able to switch to shield for some additional AC as well as an additional enchanting slot.

Interesting; so exotic weapon feat covers both types? That way, I could bring a double handed weapon, shield, and kukris if necessary?

Animal empathy is up to you, and if you'd want 2 empathied animals you'd need 23 ranger at 30 (75%). I don't find it worth it personally, but you can do it by trading one of the skills for AE, and losing 1 AC from fighter 5.

Interesting; why do you think it isn't worth it?

[Freyason]

Dual blades as in double handed weapon?

You'd just go with build above. You'd have +2 to AB and easier time with blade thirst. With kukris you'd be able to switch to shield for some additional AC as well as an additional enchanting slot.

Interesting; so exotic weapon feat covers both types? That way, I could bring a double handed weapon, shield, and kukris if necessary?

It covers following weapons: http://nwn.wikia.com/wiki/Weapon_proficiency_(exotic)

You could do that, but you'd be missing some AB you get from feats on specific weapons.

Animal empathy is up to you, and if you'd want 2 empathied animals you'd need 23 ranger at 30 (75%). I don't find it worth it personally, but you can do it by trading one of the skills for AE, and losing 1 AC from fighter 5.

Interesting; why do you think it isn't worth it?

For me personally, I don't think a 23/4/3 version would make make your character unplayable or radically different, specially if having some more animals is important. It's a give and take, I just like more what 21/6/3 has to offer

PS welcome to the server

[MarleVVLL]

Thanks for the warm welcome!

In your mind, what's the principal differences between the two options?

[Baron Saturday]

Thanks for the warm welcome!

In your mind, what's the principal differences between the two options?

Looking at the builds above, I think the difference is literally just 1 AC from lvl 5 fighter vs. ability to have 3 critters. Am I missing something? Because that seems like a totally insignificant trade-off.

You can also do rogue instead of bard if you feel that to be more thematically sensible, though you have to cross-class spellcraft in that case. If you did that, I'd suggest shifting the epic levels of the build a bit:

21. Fighter 1: Epic Weapon Focus, Armor Skin
22. Fighter 2: Great Strength
23. Fighter 3:
24. Fighter 4: STR+1, Weapon Specialization, Epic Weapon Specialization.
25. Ranger 21: Bane of Enemies
26. Rogue 1:
27. Rogue 2: Epic Skill Focus (Discipline)
28. Rogue 3: STR+1
29. Ranger 22:
30. Ranger 23: Epic Prowess

[Aodh Lazuli]

Thanks for the warm welcome!

In your mind, what's the principal differences between the two options?

Looking at the builds above, I think the difference is literally just 1 AC from lvl 5 fighter vs. ability to have 3 critters. Am I missing something? Because that seems like a totally insignificant trade-off.

Basically, in high epics, there are no animals that are worth having... But +1 AC is always nice, and with a 21 ranger build, you'll have the ability to AE many animals through the majority of your levelling process anyway.

[MarleVVLL]

I was not aware that there were not applicable beasts in the epic levels -- that's good to know!

Last question (for now): is it possible to throw in some weapon master levels to augment the dual blade playstyle? Or would that be advised against?

Thank you for being so welcoming and helpful!

[Freyason]

That would be strongly advised against.

You could make dual blade weaponmaster, but it wouldn't be heavy ranger

[MarleVVLL]

Interesting; why? Is it because I would need more fighter levels for prerequisites, but at that point, the investment into ranger no longer is justified?

[Baron Saturday]

I was not aware that there were not applicable beasts in the epic levels -- that's good to know!

Last question (for now): is it possible to throw in some weapon master levels to augment the dual blade playstyle? Or would that be advised against?

Thank you for being so welcoming and helpful!

It's our pleasure!

As for WM, I'd also advise against it on a ranger-heavy build. You'd need to fit in four more feats, which would require giving up stuff that you really NEED, plus if you're taking WM you want to do WM 7 to make the feat investment worthwhile, which - combined with 21 ranger - doesn't leave you with enough remaining levels to take bard or rogue for tumble & UMD.

[MarleVVLL]

Many thanks! I think I have the outline for the build.