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Elaetheus
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newbie questions

Post by Elaetheus » Wed Mar 14, 2018 9:23 pm

Hello,

I am no stranger to NWN multiplayer or even some greater MMORPGs, but given my unfamiliarity with Arelith, I would really value some advice.

1) When I look at builds here, many of them seem to take a couple of gifts (ECL+2). How severely does that hammer the progression (provided that one of course stays IC and interacts)? Would it be recommended for a new player (seasoned though in other servers/games)?

2) I am perfectly aware about the disadvantages of large weapons like greatswords, still I wonder if it can work for a build that I have in mind (I really am tired of playing NWN melee with sword and board, and am ready for some risk). The build that I want to try (see below) has fighter 23 --- so is there a way to get a +4 gsword to safely tear through the damage reduction? I reckon it is possible to craft a +3 one and then improve?

3) Thoughts on a fighter 23/bg4/rogue 3? Is it still sensible to go fighter-heavy given the phase-out of Kensai?

Thanks in advance!

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Baron Saturday
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Re: newbie questions

Post by Baron Saturday » Wed Mar 14, 2018 9:43 pm

Welcome to the server!

1) Honestly, the +2 ECL is barely noticeable in my experience. With the existence of the Adventure XP system and the addition of quests up to level 20, leveling is really not terribly painful regardless of your ECL. Also, every 10 RPR gives you... -0.5 ECL, I wanna say? So that helps as you get more comfortable and move up to 20 RPR.

2) There are, to my knowledge, only two +4 two-handed weapons: The Orog Heavy greatsword and the Cyclone trident. A +3 weapon cannot be improved to +4 through enchanting (enchantments don't stack with existing properties), so your best bet is one of these or using a GMW scroll.

3) Fighter-heavy builds are fine even without kensai. Going back to #1, if you're making a divine might/shield character, I would say that the +2 stat gifts are a must, since one of the biggest challenges is the multiple attribute dependency. Also check out the Templar Armor, very helpful for that style of build.
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Re: newbie questions

Post by Elaetheus » Wed Mar 14, 2018 9:53 pm

Thanks for advice! Maybe it is worthwhile to consider a -twohand longsword, then.

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Re: newbie questions

Post by Freyason » Wed Mar 14, 2018 10:03 pm

On top of what he said, both of those +4 weapons would be +5 in hands of a 23+ fighter.

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Re: newbie questions

Post by Tourmaline » Wed Mar 14, 2018 10:17 pm

ECL does, I believe, affect the difficulty of monster spawns and there are points where a higher ECL character will have to move to areas with increased difficulty sooner than low ECL characters to get any XP at all. So it's not all just about the actual XP, but the style of play is different, lower ECLs can coast in lower level areas longer.

Still. The quest system has made it much less of an issue (and I'm actually surprised ECL isn't taken into account with quests.) and partying up with others will always allow you to go to more difficult areas so I'd definitely still take the gifts especially if you intent to play the character long term.

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Re: newbie questions

Post by Baron Saturday » Wed Mar 14, 2018 10:39 pm

Elaetheus wrote:Thanks for advice! Maybe it is worthwhile to consider a -twohand longsword, then.
And go elf for the moonblade? Totally doable, and would also allow you the option to switch to sword & board in emergencies.

That said, if ability to hit +5 enhancement for piercing DR is that important to you, you might consider a paladin instead, for holy sword. Admittedly the RP is... a bit different, to say the least, and might not fit the concept you've got in mind!
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Re: newbie questions

Post by TimeAdept » Thu Mar 15, 2018 12:03 am

You cannot -twohand Longsword, so don't do it on that basis.

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Re: newbie questions

Post by Tathkar Eisgrim » Thu Mar 15, 2018 12:07 am

I have had characters with greatsword in the past. Once you move away from sword and shield, the more you have to lean upon knockdown, disarm and preparedness in the form of potions, healing kits and so on.

Its feasible as a Kensai. It would certainly be feasible as a fighter. Just - be prepared!

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Re: newbie questions

Post by Baron Saturday » Thu Mar 15, 2018 12:35 am

TimeAdept wrote:You cannot -twohand Longsword, so don't do it on that basis.
My bad, haven't played around with -twohand that much.
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Re: newbie questions

Post by TimeAdept » Thu Mar 15, 2018 12:48 am

A 23 fighter 4 paladinorBG 3 Rogue is very effective, though. you'll find it's one of the typical divine flavored builds around the server and is commonly called a "Brycer" or "Anti-Brycer" for the BG version. Like said before, a Orog Brycer with the Orog Greatsword is very strong, and helps its AC deficit with Divine Shield. The more common variety uses, as also said, the Moonblade Longsword to keep the Shield AC and still get +5. The Dwarf and Halfling versions can use their respect racial weapons as well.

Always take your maximum gifts, it's not going to hurt your XP much, and you'll be much happier with the character at the end of the day.

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Re: newbie questions

Post by Elaetheus » Thu Mar 15, 2018 1:01 am

Thanks for the input from everyone!
TimeAdept wrote:You cannot -twohand Longsword, so don't do it on that basis.
This is really not clear from the wiki though, the description of the -twohand command is a bit confusing. It does not also correspond to the real world practice of using ``longswords'' with both hands.

In NWN2, one can ''twohand'' most medium weapons, even a scimitar. Only the rapiers are excluded.

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Re: newbie questions

Post by TimeAdept » Thu Mar 15, 2018 5:15 am

Only Bastard Swords (and Dwarven Waraxes, if a Dwarf) can be -twohanded, unless you are an Ogre, then any Large weapon (Greatsword, etc) can be -twohanded, as otherwise you couldn't gain the bonus.

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Re: newbie questions

Post by Elaetheus » Thu Mar 15, 2018 12:23 pm

As it turns out, the toon that I made is a kensai (managed to slip in... took it out of interest didn't see the whole drama haha) so I am not too sure if UMD is of any use besides wearing the UMD check equipment.

Given this I wonder about fighter 26/bg4 or 25/5? The AC is not worse than that of a full tumble combo, and the weapons dilemma is resolved. (25/5 really corresponds to my rp ideas about the character)

Is extra turning a useful feat on Arelith, or there are really ways to get it from equipment? Any advice on what skills to pay attention to?

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Re: newbie questions

Post by Maladus » Thu Mar 15, 2018 3:54 pm

Elaetheus wrote:As it turns out, the toon that I made is a kensai (managed to slip in... took it out of interest didn't see the whole drama haha) so I am not too sure if UMD is of any use besides wearing the UMD check equipment.

Given this I wonder about fighter 26/bg4 or 25/5? The AC is not worse than that of a full tumble combo, and the weapons dilemma is resolved. (25/5 really corresponds to my rp ideas about the character)

Is extra turning a useful feat on Arelith, or there are really ways to get it from equipment? Any advice on what skills to pay attention to?
If you took Kensai then you can still take Rogue to get the early level feats and stumble but you won’t need UMD. I may be alone in this but if you are low level I personally would remake and not take Kensai because without UMD you lose the ability to use scrolls and wands (which is a big deal when you consider things like Time Stop, Haste and Improved Invisibility. It’s not going to completely ruin your day but it can be useful.

That aside, you should really focus on Discipline as a skill because it helps resist against Knockdowns.

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Re: newbie questions

Post by Elaetheus » Thu Mar 15, 2018 4:32 pm

Thanks. I guess I'll try kensai, came here for something different anyway.

Discipline is obviously needed, that is true.

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Re: newbie questions

Post by Xanos950 » Thu Mar 15, 2018 7:14 pm

Elaetheus wrote:Thanks for the input from everyone!
TimeAdept wrote:You cannot -twohand Longsword, so don't do it on that basis.
This is really not clear from the wiki though, the description of the -twohand command is a bit confusing. It does not also correspond to the real world practice of using ``longswords'' with both hands.

In NWN2, one can ''twohand'' most medium weapons, even a scimitar. Only the rapiers are excluded.
D&D Longsword is more of a Arming Sword than a "real" longsword.

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Re: newbie questions

Post by BegoneThoth » Thu Mar 15, 2018 8:34 pm

Elaetheus wrote:Thanks. I guess I'll try kensai, came here for something different anyway.

Discipline is obviously needed, that is true.
I would encourage you to go 23 fighter 4 bg 3 Rogue, make sure you take your bg levels in pre epic and in such a way you can get divine might and shield, such as bg at 13,14, 15, 18, getting might and shield at 15/18.

Rogue in late epic for tumble and hold your skill points till then.

You want maxed tumble and discipline, you may want spellcraft for saves or concentration for taunt defence.

Much stronger then just fighter bg.
\

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Re: newbie questions

Post by Elaetheus » Fri Mar 16, 2018 12:06 pm

BegoneThoth wrote:
Elaetheus wrote:Thanks. I guess I'll try kensai, came here for something different anyway.

Discipline is obviously needed, that is true.
I would encourage you to go 23 fighter 4 bg 3 Rogue, make sure you take your bg levels in pre epic and in such a way you can get divine might and shield, such as bg at 13,14, 15, 18, getting might and shield at 15/18.

Rogue in late epic for tumble and hold your skill points till then.

You want maxed tumble and discipline, you may want spellcraft for saves or concentration for taunt defence.

Much stronger then just fighter bg.
I want to try it with a greatsword and not an orog, you see. Since the character is a kensai, this means +3 weapons max. And there is no point in stacking 2handed damage if you get blocked by DR. Otherwise rogue levels are a no-brainer, since this is pretty meta for most fighter types.

However, fighter 25 has same AC than fighter 23+rogue provided I read the wiki page right (tumble 30 vs 3 extra AC + tumble 15), the things lacking would be evasion, an extra sneak attack and extra skillpoints. Evasion is of course is not unimportant, but not impossible without.

Spellcraft on a kensai seems like a weird thing RP-wise; concentration is good advice given that AC will be already low.

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Re: newbie questions

Post by Swords to Rust » Fri Mar 16, 2018 1:35 pm

As a kensai, you may as well go 26 fighter 4 BG. As you say, the fighter AC makes up for (well not entirely without a shield) losing 3 AC from crossclassing tumble and you get +1 AB and damage, DR penetration, and two more feats.
You lose sneak attack damage and evasion. Those are both nice, but not essential.

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Re: newbie questions

Post by Elaetheus » Fri Mar 16, 2018 2:17 pm

Swords to Rust wrote:As a kensai, you may as well go 26 fighter 4 BG. As you say, the fighter AC makes up for (well not entirely without a shield) losing 3 AC from crossclassing tumble and you get +1 AB and damage, DR penetration, and two more feats.
You lose sneak attack damage and evasion. Those are both nice, but not essential.
Voilà, my thinking too. I only wonder about 5BG --- is Extra Turning useful on Arelith? Also that fiend summon seems nice for RP uses...

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Re: newbie questions

Post by Swords to Rust » Fri Mar 16, 2018 4:24 pm

Extra turning is only useful for some extra div might and shield. 26/4 is better I’d think but if you can live with losing an epic feat and you want the fiend for RP, go for it.

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Re: newbie questions

Post by Elaetheus » Fri Mar 16, 2018 10:51 pm

Alright, that settles the debate for me. Thanks to everyone for participating.

UPD not quite, no! Extra turning cannot be taken by a Blackguard in vanilla NWN. Is it true on Arelith?

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Re: newbie questions

Post by Ork » Sat Mar 17, 2018 4:53 am

That is true.

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