Assassin builds!

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Opustus
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Assassin builds!

Post by Opustus » Sat Mar 10, 2018 1:30 pm

Hullo, dearies. It's time to get goofy with Assassin! Post your clickbaitiest Top 10 Crazy Awesome Assassin Builds, overuse CAPS LOCK to slowly tarnish the written English language, and LET YOUR IMAGINATION FLOURISH ! ! !

Rogue3/PDK10/Assassin17 or Rogue4/PDK10/Assassin16
The supremely trained stealth specialist, availing of the free action Vanguard abilities for effective assassination. Skill points up the arse.

Rogue5/Assassin19/DwD6
The one with the mandatory DwD in it for anti-stealth performance. Probably works better as some silly DR CON/DEX Rogue/DwD/SD mess. Potential for Abbathor and grimy duergar RP.

Fighter10/Assassin16/BG4
The one with all the edge! Divine Might and Shield for the juicy brooding RP and stand-alone capability.

And yet, my personal favourite
Barbarian3/Fighter6/Assassin19
Barbarian is solely for the free action movement speed, it's soooo useful for corner sneaking and helps solo levelling immensely. Does it all the classical rogueish way. Psycho violent murderer.
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BegoneThoth
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Re: Assassin builds!

Post by BegoneThoth » Sat Mar 10, 2018 4:19 pm

monk 6 fighter 6 assassin 18

dual wield kamas, hit like 10 apr with 20+ magic damage a hit. owls insight stacks with owls wisdom, so get scrolls and a pot and watch your ac jump.
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Ork
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Re: Assassin builds!

Post by Ork » Sat Mar 10, 2018 4:50 pm

And yet, my personal favourite
Barbarian3/Fighter6/Assassin19
Barbarian is solely for the free action movement speed, it's soooo useful for corner sneaking and helps solo levelling immensely. Does it all the classical rogueish way. Psycho violent murderer.
Unfortunately you won't be able to do this combo. You need 13 levels pre-assassin to cross class the pre-requirements.

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Dr. B
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Re: Assassin builds!

Post by Dr. B » Sat Mar 10, 2018 6:37 pm

If you want to kill people, then the most powerful assassin build is undoubtedly a str-based Horc Monk/PDK Vanguard/Sin. Indeed, I place money on this thing inciting disgruntled calls for nerfs, because the damage output is absurd.

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Re: Assassin builds!

Post by Invader_Nym » Sat Mar 10, 2018 6:52 pm

I would never do any build that is majority d6 hit dice or majority 3/4 attack bonus.

NWN allows for improved expertise, which it shouldn't, which hurts lower-AB builds especially. Improved expertise doesn't disappear when you're flat-footed either, which it should, and you can stand around in expertise 24/7 which is totally silly.

Arelith also gives everyone max HP which unfairly benefits high-HP builds. Giving everyone max HP also weakens the power of the sneak attack, because your sneak-attack-round is going to put a smaller dent in their total amount of hit points.

I'd say the best assassin build is where you take the minimum amount of required assassin levels. I'd probably say an assassin ranger would be the best. 25 ranger 5 assassin.

NWN/3rd edition is also really goofy on how it treats skill points. My last character had 10 skill points per-level and still couldn't acquire all the skills he wanted given how single skills are annoyingly split up into two skills (hide, ms), (spot, listen). This problem was quite rightly addressed in Pathfinder, where hide/ms were merged into one skill.

Major changes need to happen before these specialist classes will ever be viable on Arelith.

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BegoneThoth
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Re: Assassin builds!

Post by BegoneThoth » Sat Mar 10, 2018 8:14 pm

Dr. B wrote:If you want to kill people, then the most powerful assassin build is undoubtedly a str-based Horc Monk/PDK Vanguard/Sin. Indeed, I place money on this thing inciting disgruntled calls for nerfs, because the damage output is absurd.
That build is s+ tier and I really hope it gets looked at before too many people are on the receiving end of it.

I personally would discourage using the build at all; it's too strong.
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One Two Three Five
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Re: Assassin builds!

Post by One Two Three Five » Sat Mar 10, 2018 8:39 pm

All offense-glass canon with negatives to essential stats. Sure sounds OP to me. A weapon master will eat it alive, of course, and having theorycrafted something similar what I've come up with is-

Pros:
:arrow: Strength double kama damage. This has always been doable but, strangely, you don't see it much. Wonder why?
:arrow: 10 PDK lets you immob someone (this work in pvp? If it does it should have a save) for 6 seconds, but they can still attack you
:arrow: Vanguard popping all of its cooldowns can push its effective ab from about 39 (flurry, kamas, etc) to 44ish? For a couple of rounds. And dropping saves is nice.
:arrow: 15% damage vuln is nice

Cons:
:arrow: Pop all your cooldowns and wade in? What you've made is a bad battlecleric.
:arrow: Horcs get -2 cha and int, which both of your "main" classes need
:arrow: Junk stealth got a pretty hefty nerf, now that TS does lasting +15 spot, amplify got buffed, and people are probably finally learning what clairvoyance/clairaudience is.
:arrow: To max out this build's effectiveness you need gear with strength for AB/damage, dex for stealth (running with just invis is a bad option) and saves and stealth and half the assassin toolkit, con for HP and fort saves, wisdom for AC and will saves, and Int for assassin damage (and skills but that's base), cha for your intimidate roll on fear- the crux of this build really- else your use of it will be like, 10+10+11-2, as an easily avoided fear save- or gear for intimiddate and lose slots for discipline, hide, etc-
:arrow: Your AC dude. Unless you can swing gear with str, dex, and wis, you're looking at about a 42 with all the lights running, which is ironic because a mirror-build of this that gets the drop on it will kill it in one round. Most meleers will. No room for IE, either.

tl;dr: Looks good on paper, gets theoretical cooldown-popped-fully-buffed-guarded numbers to make BT start a new spellsword crusade once the tiefling thing is gone, but is, to put it real nice, an unplayable mess that will really only function when -guarded and in the sort of high-setup-max-efficiency-unprepared-enemy situations, at level 30, that all other sin builds thrive in.

Like don't get me wrong, if you've got the time to buff, haste, probably true strike, fear-oath of wrath-final stand, and you've got some frankly artefact level gear? Dead killy. But it wont be fun to play up to that point. (and I've got some fun questions about how pdk debuffs function vis a vis putting a character/npc into combat mode)

You'd have an easier time as a strength-assassin just running the old fighter/WM/sin scimmy wimmy tbh. Hell, an altered battlecleric with some assassin would pull this trick easier too. I really, really, don't want to see assassin get nerfed over some hyperbole like 'this is s+ i hope it gets nerfed' (especially since the 'problem' part of that build is PDK.)
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TimeAdept
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Re: Assassin builds!

Post by TimeAdept » Sat Mar 10, 2018 8:42 pm

The assassinate damage is absolutely getting nerfed. 25+ magic damage per hit with 0 effort other than clicking a command.

Frame this post.

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One Two Three Five
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Re: Assassin builds!

Post by One Two Three Five » Sat Mar 10, 2018 8:53 pm

Oh probably. There's arguments to be made about defenses, tradeoffs, IGMS wombo-combos, AC values, WMs still being stronger, 'for no effort' being kind of lazy hyperbole (main-classing assassin, or anything, is the effort entailed), whole threads that could be done, but..

It's going to come down to this: A few people will claim every third character is an assassin, that they're unassailable powerbuilds, and that they need a hard nerf now before it gets too bad, if not outright removal. Other people will show up with numbers, comparisons, considered arguments, but once that 'it's too strong/too hard to hide/it killed me' momentum gets started, with as angry as the forums have been this year, the former claims will make its way into the forum/discord culture as absolute fact, and no one posting numbers or comparisons to other setups will be heard by them.

Which, damn shame, but I'm not factoring assassinate damage into any sins I put together for this exact reason. Just mostly excited about dex-sins not needing a bunch of rogue levels for epic dodge, myself.
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Baron Saturday
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Re: Assassin builds!

Post by Baron Saturday » Sat Mar 10, 2018 8:56 pm

Forget stealth. Be like Gogron.
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Xanos950
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Re: Assassin builds!

Post by Xanos950 » Sat Mar 10, 2018 10:12 pm

We should take bets on when Assassinate is going to get the inevitable nerf. I enjoy strong builds, but this feature just feels dirty to me.

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Dr. B
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Re: Assassin builds!

Post by Dr. B » Sat Mar 10, 2018 10:18 pm

Xanos950 wrote:We should take bets on when Assassinate is going to get the inevitable nerf. I enjoy strong builds, but this feature just feels dirty to me.
Good question. This depends on many factors. Not sure it'll be nerfed, by the complaints are gonna happen.

(Hence why I've decided to hold off on playing one. Rule #54 of Arelith: if they buff a class, or make a new path, don't play it, unless you've accepted that it may get nerfed.)

TimeAdept
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Re: Assassin builds!

Post by TimeAdept » Sat Mar 10, 2018 11:33 pm

it's honestly a gamble between "play it before it gets nerfed" "don't play it in case your build gets destroyed" or "make it just in case you get made legacy".

it's hard to tell what will be what. unfortunately there's not a lot to be done about it - this is what happens when you have a dev team willing to make sweeping changes, which ultimately i would rather have over a team paralyzed and unwilling to do anything for fear of needing to fix everything simultaneously.

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Re: Assassin builds!

Post by yellowcateyes » Sat Mar 10, 2018 11:52 pm

Regarding assassin, fears of a nerf are overblown - largely for the reasons One Two Three outlined above.

Stay calm and keep on playing.
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flower
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Re: Assassin builds!

Post by flower » Sun Mar 11, 2018 6:25 am

I would not go on melee asasín at all.

I would simple go something with bow. Getting close is getting personal. Put down traps and shoot person from safe distance.

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BegoneThoth
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Re: Assassin builds!

Post by BegoneThoth » Sun Mar 11, 2018 6:41 am

One Two Three Five wrote: :arrow: Strength double kama damage. This has always been doable but, strangely, you don't see it much. Wonder why?
:arrow: 10 PDK lets you immob someone (this work in pvp? If it does it should have a save) for 6 seconds, but they can still attack you
because it didn't get class level to damage plus int mod before? because assassin didn't get epic dodge and imp evasion before?

pdk save-free stun into 10 attacks with like 10d6 sneak and 20+ magic damage is op-af. Just wait for some people to start blowing everyone up in pvp with it and bingo bango.
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One Two Three Five
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Re: Assassin builds!

Post by One Two Three Five » Sun Mar 11, 2018 7:07 am

Man I wrote up a whole thing about how it's probably better to trust the dev team, wait till more than a week has passed, not fall for discord/forum/ooo big numbers hyperbole but, man, it's pointless. Take it to feedback if you want to grind a new axe, I guess, and let people have fun theorycrafting here?

Anyway: Archer assassin. Seems like it'd be fun, but I guess you'd minimize assassin to like, 5, for potions and the guild, and go AA/(ranger or bard?) for the rest?
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flower
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Re: Assassin builds!

Post by flower » Sun Mar 11, 2018 7:22 am

One Two Three Five wrote:Man I wrote up a whole thing about how it's probably better to trust the dev team, wait till more than a week has passed, not fall for discord/forum/ooo big numbers hyperbole but, man, it's pointless. Take it to feedback if you want to grind a new axe, I guess, and let people have fun theorycrafting here?

Anyway: Archer assassin. Seems like it'd be fun, but I guess you'd minimize assassin to like, 5, for potions and the guild, and go AA/(ranger or bard?) for the rest?

Not sure i did not give it a proper thought. More levels and higher int would boost out the bow damage output tho. Most likely tinkering together ranger and asasín, maybe SD dip for HIPS.

Ranger gets HIPS on its own, but only outside. And well yes the habit of nowadays assasins is the thug approach walking into crowd of people killing one and thinking can just walk off again (wtf? :D).

We really lack feature if you brought dead body to guild master contract is over, to make them act least a bit more annonymous imho.

Astral
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Re: Assassin builds!

Post by Astral » Sun Mar 11, 2018 9:14 am

One Two Three Five wrote: Anyway: Archer assassin. Seems like it'd be fun, but I guess you'd minimize assassin to like, 5, for potions and the guild, and go AA/(ranger or bard?) for the rest?
Sounds more like a 5 ranger, 9 aa, 16 assassin to me. Otherwise I dont know how much really you get from assassin and probably better off going with a more classic archer build.
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flower
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Re: Assassin builds!

Post by flower » Sun Mar 11, 2018 9:45 am

Astral wrote:
One Two Three Five wrote: Anyway: Archer assassin. Seems like it'd be fun, but I guess you'd minimize assassin to like, 5, for potions and the guild, and go AA/(ranger or bard?) for the rest?
Sounds more like a 5 ranger, 9 aa, 16 assassin to me. Otherwise I dont know how much really you get from assassin and probably better off going with a more classic archer build.
Can be poison used on arrows? If yes, it sounds big for me. Even few lvls of asasín offer some perks for utiliy-

5 lvls and 20 INt confers +10 bonus damage.

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Baron Saturday
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Re: Assassin builds!

Post by Baron Saturday » Sun Mar 11, 2018 10:05 am

flower wrote:5 lvls and 20 INt confers +10 bonus damage.
Int bonus damage caps at assassin level/2, so you'd need 10 assassin to get the most out of 20 int. With 5 levels you'd only get +7.
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Astral
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Re: Assassin builds!

Post by Astral » Sun Mar 11, 2018 10:10 am

flower wrote:Can be poison used on arrows?
I dont see why not. Can someone confirm this? I really hope it works the same way as temporary essences, and thus allowing arrows with permanent poison property.
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afreshstart
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Re: Assassin builds!

Post by afreshstart » Sun Mar 11, 2018 1:25 pm

You can put poison on arrows and bolts if they aren't poisend already (Like mild poison arrow). Sadly you can't put them on bundles, since they are clubs(Blunt weapons)

You can make a drow for the +5d6 sneak cross bow and go Ranger/Assassin/SD.

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flower
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Re: Assassin builds!

Post by flower » Sun Mar 11, 2018 1:33 pm

Does this sneak crossbow stacks with asasín?


I am not sure if it is better than bow with rapid shot.

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afreshstart
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Re: Assassin builds!

Post by afreshstart » Sun Mar 11, 2018 1:54 pm

I haven't tested it myself so I can't confirm it. But I see no reason it wouldn't stack? And for the build I'd go heavy assassin for high death attack damage and use hips to disengage if they beat the fort save or pray out of it. Not to mention the free feat you get as a drow.

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