Assassin builds!

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flower
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Re: Assassin builds!

Post by flower » Sun Mar 11, 2018 2:23 pm

afreshstart wrote:I haven't tested it myself so I can't confirm it. But I see no reason it wouldn't stack? And for the build I'd go heavy assassin for high death attack damage and use hips to disengage if they beat the fort save or pray out of it. Not to mention the free feat you get as a drow.

The death attack is the very least thing i would také asasín for at all. It is fort save, demands high level of class, and allows you only 3 attamps in first flurry. To get conditions for this thing to shoot off is very hard, you need to rp prior attack, any anytime initiative is rolled you get like a 6secs to try it (in case you WIN that initiative roll).

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One Two Three Five
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Re: Assassin builds!

Post by One Two Three Five » Sun Mar 11, 2018 2:37 pm

It still does sneak attack-ish damage, though!
Although if you use the sneak attack granting crossbow as your main weapon, you can plan to build for improved sneak attack, since it'll work for you if not normal assassins.
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afreshstart
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Re: Assassin builds!

Post by afreshstart » Sun Mar 11, 2018 2:41 pm

Well with 16-17 assassin levels and 30 buffed int your deat attack DC should be around 37, nothing to scoff at imho, considering failing it means you are dead if you don't -pray. You still get bonus damage from death attacks on any attack that would be a sneak attack. And HiPs is ideal to use in this situation as well, if you fail the innitative you can go into sneak for a few seconds to exit combat and try again. I don't think it breaks any rules.

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flower
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Re: Assassin builds!

Post by flower » Sun Mar 11, 2018 2:43 pm

You need to hit target first as well :D I am rather sceptical on this thing.

Edit:
If you play a character where assasination really matters (other than getting killed) like settlement leader, is there ANY reason you would walk unwarded and unaware of surrounding if you know there is a contract on you? And in such case, the AC of target will be most likely up, and person ready to defend itself. You chances to land a succesfull death attack to paralise said person is minimal.

Such person will immedietly act (and properly in rp) on any suspious thing / person happening around. Unless said character has inteligence of 5 and player role plays it. :mrgreen:
Last edited by flower on Sun Mar 11, 2018 2:50 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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afreshstart
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Re: Assassin builds!

Post by afreshstart » Sun Mar 11, 2018 2:47 pm

Well most high AC builds have much lower AC while flat footed, atleast :P It's not a great build tbh but I like big sneak numbers :D

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afreshstart
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Re: Assassin builds!

Post by afreshstart » Sun Mar 11, 2018 2:56 pm

flower wrote:You need to hit target first as well :D I am rather sceptical on this thing.

Edit:
If you play a character where assasination really matters (other than getting killed) like settlement leader, is there ANY reason you would walk unwarded and unaware of surrounding if you know there is a contract on you? And in such case, the AC of target will be most likely up, and person ready to defend itself. You chances to land a succesfull death attack to paralise said person is minimal.

Such person will immedietly act (and properly in rp) on any suspious thing / person happening around. Unless said character has inteligence of 5 and player role plays it. :mrgreen:
You are right about that but I'm not sure if an AA can fare much better. You'd want HiPs or monk speed to not get murdered at close quarters. So either go 16 ranger and get 9 AA levels which gives you very nice AC but you can only HiPs at wilderness and I don't think you can catch a high level high profile character just being alone in the wilds often :D And if you go monk... well you can't be an AA at the same time

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One Two Three Five
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Re: Assassin builds!

Post by One Two Three Five » Sun Mar 11, 2018 3:07 pm

Right lets make this crossbow assassin work, right.

Hand Spinneret has the following properties:
+4 AB, point blank shot feat, 5d6 rogue sneak attack (stacks with assassin, is similar to having 10 rogue levels), massive criticals 2d6, and runic.

It's a light crossbow so 1d8, 19-20/x2. Ranger is the obvious choice since you can get the hide/ms reqs for sassin by 5, but neither archer nor sniper ranger really helps you unless the ranged damage buff works with crossbows, which I've never even tried to find out once.

So 5 Shadowdancer/17ish? Assassin/8 ranger, right?
That'll give you 42ish AB (I assume you're running a drow), pretty hefty sneak dice (5d6+9d6), access to the 2d8+4 bolts, poison, and maybe a couple ranger spells that you shouldn't use so you don't wreck your caster level. Could take craft wand and wand them, though. I guess.

I don't know how good your mileage on a crossbower would be without -guard buddies or UMD'd summons, pve-wise, though. And there's the ever present 'leveling an archer on arelith is bad' feel, of course.
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afreshstart
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Re: Assassin builds!

Post by afreshstart » Sun Mar 11, 2018 3:21 pm

Actually you can get 3d6 more sneak thank to the SD shadow, but I'm not sure how reliable that would be. And I played an archer once, I highly recommend making friends. Sniper path gives you point blank shot, should work with a crossbow.

Beneidalus
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Re: Assassin builds!

Post by Beneidalus » Sun Mar 11, 2018 9:22 pm

So I looked into PDK. It's not a stun at all. It's the "immobilized" effect. During which, the target cannot move, and is considered flat-footed, but otherwise, isn't limited on what they can do. While this effect has no save, it only lasts one round. (This requires 10 PDK levels, and the Vanguard stream)

There is nothing broken about this, in combination with assassin. If anything, this would be PDK which is broken, anyways. One round immobilized? Okay, you can still cast spells / drink potions / attack / heal kit. You're flat footed, so your DEX goes to 3, which may lower one's AC, but it's only for one (1) round.

Also, I can say, that the hand spinneret does in fact stack its sneak attack with assassin's death attack, making some combo of drow ranger/assassin very ideal.

TimeAdept
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Re: Assassin builds!

Post by TimeAdept » Sun Mar 11, 2018 10:02 pm

The PDK Flatfoot opens you up to sneak attacks, which is really the idea of it. A full round of "your opponent is at 3 dex, losing tumble, and everything else" sneak attacks. If you're dualweilding, you can also tag your Haste or offhand 1st attack with a KD attempt that you are almost assured of connecting to try to extend the CC.

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flower
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Re: Assassin builds!

Post by flower » Sun Mar 11, 2018 10:54 pm

Speakin of being flatfooted. It denies only dodge AC right? So it means my WM looses only 4 points of AC? But i think that attacker also gets AB bonus, am i right?

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Baron Saturday
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Re: Assassin builds!

Post by Baron Saturday » Sun Mar 11, 2018 10:57 pm

flower wrote:Speakin of being flatfooted. It denies only dodge AC right? So it means my WM looses only 4 points of AC? But i think that attacker also gets AB bonus, am i right?
Flat-footed characters lose dodge, tumble, and Dex AC bonuses. Uncanny Dodge lets you keep Dex, but that's still a loss of ~10 AC.
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flower
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Re: Assassin builds!

Post by flower » Sun Mar 11, 2018 11:03 pm

Baron Saturday wrote:
flower wrote:Speakin of being flatfooted. It denies only dodge AC right? So it means my WM looses only 4 points of AC? But i think that attacker also gets AB bonus, am i right?
Flat-footed characters lose dodge, tumble, and Dex AC bonuses. Uncanny Dodge lets you keep Dex, but that's still a loss of ~10 AC.
All but 4 points of AC come from natural, armour, shield, deflection and impr. expertise. So i should loose only 4 points in theory, no?

Edit: Okay, i forgot +1 from dexterity :lol:

But the pdk ability is interesting, but more in connection as a supplement to the team, PDK build along with his buddy using sneaks/death attacks.

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Re: Assassin builds!

Post by Astral » Mon Mar 12, 2018 1:24 am

Okay its not building related al so much but it is an assassin thread. Lets talk about the ranged attack bug with death attack. How much do you guys know about this? Last time I played ranged assassin was on another server. I remember how Death attack only applied as a normal sneak attack when using a bow and that the death attack CC roll only happened to the target once in a turn or only after I left death attack range (30 ft) and went back into range again. This bug is still a thing, I'd imagine.
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afreshstart
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Re: Assassin builds!

Post by afreshstart » Mon Mar 12, 2018 11:40 am

Death attack CC should only work if the target is not in combat. Otherwise it'd be so broken :D Doesn't seem like a bug to me.

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TroubledWaters
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Re: Assassin builds!

Post by TroubledWaters » Sat Apr 14, 2018 11:39 am

Is the PDK build supposed to dual wield? I can't figure out a way to get enough feats to pick up the dual wielding as well as exotic weapon proficiency unless I give up knockdown/IKD.

What would a feat list look like for that build?

TheShadowdove
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Re: Assassin builds!

Post by TheShadowdove » Thu Apr 19, 2018 5:45 pm

New to the server but I was wondering what kind of traditional Dex based Assassin primary builds there are?

I know the mechanics are different here and haven't touched high level play or pvp yet. So things like death attack are different and the shadowdancer is much more than hips now.

Also magical item accessibility and slots make a big end game difference from server to server. Or did a decade ago.

Before I would just toss in a high AB class like fighter or ranger for attacks per round, then a level of shadowdancer and assassin or rogue primary. It worked, given you took the right class during epic feats and saved a fighter or ranger class for later to get discipline.

What are the class dispersions like in this server?

Does something like ranger or fighter, SD minimum, rest assassin or rogue make sense anymore? Obviously ending on a level that gives you a class feature is usually important.

Like a 6 Rang(animal companions), 5 SD(HIPS), 19 Assassin(10d6sneak)?

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BegoneThoth
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Re: Assassin builds!

Post by BegoneThoth » Thu Apr 19, 2018 8:46 pm

You have to take three levels of a class before you can take anything else, so plan for that.

Dex is fine but, imo, ac us always lower then strength ab meaning you arnt really up much, and due to how carry weight works, as a dexer you're going to be hurting in some quality of life areas.

Monk six fighter six assassin 18 is solid for a dex kama monk, however. I believe there's also a fight black guard assassin that's pretty good if you don't mind tri stat builds.
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Baron Saturday
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Re: Assassin builds!

Post by Baron Saturday » Thu Apr 19, 2018 10:01 pm

I don't know that there's really a "traditional" assassin build for Arelith, as until the March update they were pretty bad and people would generally just take 5 levels for access to the assassin's guild.

At this point? For a dex-based assassin, I would plan to take at least 16 levels. This gets you the upgraded version of all the spell-like feats, a hefty assassinate damage bonus even with mediocre int, and access to epic dodge. Don't sweat strength too much, as low-strength characters have gotten a buff to their carry weights. Take at least 4 levels of a full-BAB class by level 20 to get a 4th attack/round, and plan to for one of your lass few levels to be a class that lets you dump points into discipline, as that is a skill that just about any build wants to max out.

If I were to tweak BT's fighter/monk/assassin build, for instance, I would probably do 8 fighter/4 monk/8 assassin pre-epic (for a BAB of 17), and end up with a 10/4/16 spread, taking one level of fighter at 24 for epic weapon spec and one at 29 for a discipline dump. End the build on a level of assassin and the epic dodge feat. I would say that melee-focused rangers on Arelith are actually better off with strength builds, even when dual-wielding, which is enabled by the Ranger's Runic Studded Leather and its lesser variant.

Equipment-wise, most of your gear (cloak, belt, boots, gloves, amulet, rings) for the majority of your levels will be either be custom enchanted or the randomly generated magical items, which can give +1 to up to 3 stats/AC and +2 to up to... 4 skills, I wanna say? Take a look through the crafting section of the wiki to get an idea of what gear you can expect in the end-game, especially in the tailoring, helmets, special weapons and special armor categories. You can generally expect to get +7 to two stats pretty early on, so you'll be hitting the +12 buff cap on those fairly easily.
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Freyason
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Re: Assassin builds!

Post by Freyason » Thu Apr 19, 2018 11:04 pm

Baron Saturday wrote:
Thu Apr 19, 2018 10:01 pm
End the build on a level of assassin and the epic dodge feat.
That shouldn't be possible since you get improved evasion on 16th level as well, but he could do

29 As
30 F

I suppose and get epic dodge on fighter level.

Or do 9F / 3M / 8As prepic to end on monk.

personally I'd do 10F/3M/17As anyway if using those 3 classes, you get nothing from 4th monk.

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Baron Saturday
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Re: Assassin builds!

Post by Baron Saturday » Thu Apr 19, 2018 11:36 pm

10F/3M/17A certainly works, 4M just gets slightly better saves. I'm not sure if you'd be able to get edodge on your 16th level of assassin, now that I think about it - depends on at what point during the leveling process you actually get the Imp. Evasion feat. Ending on fighter would definitely be preferable, for some reason I had it in my head that you'd need to take edodge on an assassin level. Obviously that's not the case.
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Freyason
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Re: Assassin builds!

Post by Freyason » Fri Apr 20, 2018 12:00 am

you'd also get 2 extra skill points by not ending on Assassin (provided that gets fixed)

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Re: Assassin builds!

Post by Dr. B » Fri Apr 20, 2018 5:21 am

Baron Saturday wrote:
Thu Apr 19, 2018 11:36 pm
10F/3M/17A certainly works, 4M just gets slightly better saves. I'm not sure if you'd be able to get edodge on your 16th level of assassin, now that I think about it - depends on at what point during the leveling process you actually get the Imp. Evasion feat. Ending on fighter would definitely be preferable, for some reason I had it in my head that you'd need to take edodge on an assassin level. Obviously that's not the case.
You can't take it 'til level 17.

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